Blueprint to get Dr. Dre back on track

[Smackdog]

Dr. dre is on the second team....so what he needs to do is form a group so that folks forget about his solo stuff and think about him as being in a group.....him with 3 other dudes that is what he needs to do.....otherwise I am not really feeling the dude.

[Jimmy H.]

Dr. dre is on the second team....so what he needs to do is form a group so that folks forget about his solo stuff and think about him as being in a group.....him with 3 other dudes that is what he needs to do.....otherwise I am not really feeling the dude.

I'm sure Interscope is rushing to change everything around so that you'll be feeling him again.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

And he still remains relevant. The people who like the new song are listening and it's doing well and those who hate it seem to be flooding this forum with their armchair A&R/executive theories about how the "young kids" aren''t feeling his music like they have their fucking fingers on the pulse of the youth market.

He didn't produce the song. Its an Alex da Kid joint. Sonically its almost exactly Love the Way You Lie. Even if this song becomes a hit, its not gonna prove his relevance as a hip hop producer.

If he can't produce hits on his own record then I'd say his relevance has taken a hit, even if the album does well.

[Anonymous.]

Our Detox who Flop in heaven,
overrated be thy name,
thy wackness come,
thy will be done,
in Cali as it is in Europe,
give us this day our early leaks,
and forgive us our bootleggers,
for we promote those who bootleg the wankstas,
and lead us not into some gay shit,
but deliver us from wiggers,
Amen.

[Jimmy H.]

It's still his project though. He's making the decision to put that record out so if it fails or succeeds, it's on him. You can put whatever asteriks you want next to whoever's name but if their name is still being mentioned in regards to a record that is succesful, they are relevant. It's like this.. He could put out an entire album of songs other people produced and throw "Dr. Dre Presents" on the title and if it sells, his name is still money. If it bombs, it ain't.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

It's still his project though. He's making the decision to put that record out so if it fails or succeeds, it's on him. You can put whatever asteriks you want next to whoever's name but if their name is still being mentioned in regards to a record that is succesful, they are relevant. It's like this.. He could put out an entire album of songs other people produced and throw "Dr. Dre Presents" on the title and if it sells, his name is still money. If it bombs, it ain't.

I was talking about his relevance as a producer who puts out hits, not as a "rapper" who puts out albums. Because that has never really been his focus. What separates Dre from a Suge Knight type of character is his involvement in the music. If he's not involved in the production of the music, then to me he's just another Puffy.

[Jimmy H.]

I was talking about his relevance as a producer who puts out hits, not as a "rapper" who puts out albums. Because that has never really been his focus. What separates Dre from a Suge Knight type of character is his involvement in the music. If he's not involved in the production of the music, then to me he's just another Puffy.

But whose to say he's not involved. Just because someone else gets the producer credit, doesn't mean he's not in there with his input. Your argument of what makes a producer is fine as a single opinion but I don't think it constitutes relevance. If the public (buying, listening, viewing, whatever) is interested in what you do no matter what way you go about, you're relevant. Maybe you feel by not being the credited producer on the first single, he's diminished his value as a producer but I'd say that's unlikely. Even people who aren't overly enthralled by the music they've heard so far are still actively involved in the conversation so they still care. In order for there to be strong dissapointment, you need strong anticipation. There's people who've been actively announcing how "done" they are with Detox for almost 4 years but with every little piece of info, they have an opinion. 

It's easy to hate on the music if you don't like it but I feel he probably liked the song and the concept and said, "Hey. This is what I'm looking for" and rolled with it. Yes, most people on this forum think it sucks but no matter what he does, there's gonna be a part of his fanbase that is pissed off about it and everyone's been waiting so now they feel "entitled". The bottom line is he can't win. As an artist-producer, he's in a class all his own. When you think of "super producers" or artist-producers, there's nobody that mixes his longevity, success, influence, and all-around track record. Nobody. You might have younger guys who make better beats in the lab but they aren't better producers. And no, I don't anticipate having to explain that last sentence to the majority of people who are still stuck solely on the "beat-making" aspect of music production but I expect it. It's not some accident or conspiracy that the Timbalands, DJ Premiers, and Quiks in the game are saying this guy is the real deal. I mean, you are twenty-five years deep in popular music and you've worked with so many of the greatest artists out there during that time and directly inspired many of those you haven't. How easy could it possibly be to pull something new out of your hat that will simultaneously impress all your fans, critics, and peers while competing with the catalog you've already come up with?

A lot of people are on the opinion that Dre just said, “Fuck it. I’m just gonna copy what’s hot” or Jimmy talked him into this or that. I don’t buy it. If money was all that mattered, why spend years on albums and then throw them away? If he’s Jimmy Iovine’s slave or bitch boy, why is Jimmy allowing this? Dre’s had plenty of chances to sell out and make a flavor of the month project. Hell, many of them would have been supported by most of the people in this very forum. I mean if he’d struck when the iron was hot on “Not These Niggas Again” back in 2000-2001 and just made that album half-heartedly on auto-pilot, how many of you would have cared as long as the beats knocked? The only time “artistic integrity” seems to matter is when the artist decides to do something y’all don’t like. Think about it. If Snoop did “Doggystyle 2” tomorrow and absolutely hated it and only did to appease us would we call him a “sellout” if we liked the album? Doubtful.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

His name isn't on it, hence he had no involvement in the production. Simple logic, yes? And why are you bringing up Jimmy? I haven't mentioned him once.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

When you think of "super producers" or artist-producers, there's nobody that mixes his longevity, success, influence, and all-around track record. Nobody. You might have younger guys who make better beats in the lab but they aren't better producers.

Legacy-wise? Yes. He's in my top 3 as far as hip hop producers of all time go. But I'm talking about the here and now. There's many producers I'd put over Dre right now. I know the difference between a beatmaker and a producer. But when Dre produces a song, his name is on it as the main producer, regardless if someone else made the beat or not. His name wasn't on Kush or I Need a Doctor, and even if it was it still wouldn't say much for if he "still has it".

Look, his legacy stands for itself. I'm talking about right now. I've said that already but you don't seem to have gotten the point.

[Jimmy H.]

His name isn't on it, hence he had no involvement in the production. Simple logic, yes? 

Just because he wasn't the credited producer does not mean he had no involvement in the production.

  And why are you bringing up Jimmy? I haven't mentioned him once.

  While I did quote one of your comments and addressed that, I also decided to address a lot of the other comments being made in regard to Detox.

Legacy-wise? Yes. He's in my top 3 as far as hip hop producers of all time go. But I'm talking about the here and now. There's many producers I'd put over Dre right now. I know the difference between a beatmaker and a producer. But when Dre produces a song, his name is on it as the main producer, regardless if someone else made the beat or not. His name wasn't on Kush or I Need a Doctor, and even if it was it still wouldn't say much for if he "still has it".

Well, we all have our own opinions but it's a tougher comparison to make for me. A less-seasoned producer still has a lot more to chose from without double-dipping where a guy that has been doing it since the 80's has covered quite a bit of ground already so finding new challenges is a lit more difficult. For someone that is so many years ahead of his peers, there’s only so much he can do without it being redundant. To ignore an artist’s history when judging them today is not to look at the full picture. If Steven Spielberg comes out and recycles E.T., even if it’s technically more polished and improved in some areas, the feeling is still gonna be “Come on, Steven. You did this movie already.” Where as if Quentin Tarantino does a movie about space aliens, he’s never tackled that yet and he might even take things he saw being a student of watching Spielberg and use them because that’s what artists do and people will applaud that. It’s the same in music.

So to me it’s not that Dre is becoming less relevant. His value as a producer hasn’t fallen off. He could still command top dollar from nearly any artist to work with them. As I said, you can’t compare an artist or producer who got on in the new millennium with one that been out there since 1985. It won’t work.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

What does how seasoned a producer is have to do with the actual music??? A dope record is a dope record. I'm not going to sit here and give a song more props than its due because of who made it. If a nobody producer comes out with better material than a seasoned vet in a given year, that means they were the better producer for that year. And I don't buy what you're saying about redundancy, because a new producer is just as limited in what they can do. A new producer can't make a name by copying what has been done before. They have to come with their own style. In that sense they are even more limited, because at least a producer like Dre can go back to his sound and not get flack for it because its his sound.

If Dr. Dre makes a weak record, then its a weak record. But you're still missing the original point. He didn't produce either of his singles. When I hear I Need A Doctor what it tells me is that Alex da Kid made a weak record and Dre made the mistake of passing it off as his single.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

His name isn't on it, hence he had no involvement in the production. Simple logic, yes? 

Just because he wasn't the credited producer does not mean he had no involvement in the production.

Why would you assume that? Your logic is based on nothing but speculation. And extremely unlikely speculation at that. Why in the world would Dr. Dre ghost-produce on his own record?? He's been known before to attach his name to anything he's had the slightest hand in. When it comes to his own album you can be assured he would be credited as a producer if he did any producing on it.

Enough of your stupid speculation because its baseless. The credits are right in front of you. Dre didn't produce on his own record. Unless you can show otherwise its a moot point to argue.

[Dre-Day]

His name isn't on it, hence he had no involvement in the production. Simple logic, yes? 

Just because he wasn't the credited producer does not mean he had no involvement in the production.

well he didn't even get credit for additional production, so his involvement was little if he had any.

[YoungGotti]

lets hear Detox album first before we say he get back on track

not based on a couple songs he didn't even produce

[HighEyeCue]

lets hear Detox album first before we say he get back on track

not based on a couple songs he didn't even produce

that is if there are Dre productions on Detox

let's hope so