Pac & Dre

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Pac got on KMEL radio and talked about how Dre wasn't producing anything and said he's a bomb producer but he takes too long to make the beats and he wasn't going to wait for him and Daz, Johnny J, etc. were all grindin out beats and Dre was nowhere to be found.  Pac said he was out with the homies thuggin in the streets representing the label and Dre wasn't doing anything.

Actually, while Pac did mention Dre in his KMEL interview, the stuff you're talking about was from his VIBE interview (later released on CD as "The Last Interview" bundled with the Thug Immortal video.  In the KMEL interview, he was mostly talking about how Dre wasn't around during Snoop's trial and how he didn't want to associate with him anymore.

When J-Flexx had written a track to sean barney rubble's 'basic' beat, Dre done what he done to it, and rapped J-Flexx's track word for word.

I was under the impression that J-Flexx wrote it FOR Dr. Dre rather than Dre just jacking his lyrics... assuming that J-Flexx hasn't "been in the game for ten years making rap tunes."

Although the 2 never worked together in his studio again (they done video shoots, TV promo's together on TV networks) 2Pac was able to get a beat from him again quite easily in the summer of 96. He arrived at Can Am with a Dre beat to record the Toss It Up song.

That doesn't make sense.  Dre already left Death Row around January or February of 1996, yet he's still supplying Pac with beats in the summer?  And as a side note, while they weren't in Dre's studio, the two of them were together at Can-Am at least once.  There's a picture of Pac, Dre, Johnny J and Big Syke in the studio.

Dr Dre was never forced to hand over anything, and didn't have to work with 2Pac if he didn't want to. Suge Knight didn't know anything about any beats he had.

Dre has said that when he was leaving Death Row, Suge sent people to his home to get some of the Death Row stuff from him that he had at his home studio.  Dre's side of the story was that people showed up at his house, then he made copies of the material then handed them over.  Of course the Death Row version (whether from Suge or some internet Death Row groupies) is a bit exaggerated, talking about guys coming with weapons and threatening to beat Dre to a pulp and raiding his home studio.

I don't think Pac was Suge's puppet but I think he felt a loyalty to Suge and Frank Alexander has more or less confirmed that there was never a personal issue between Pac and Dre prior to Dre leaving the label outside of him not being in the studio.

I agree with this.  What people don't always consider is that while Pac was his own man and certainly had his own opinions on a lot of matters, he was still grateful to Suge (and essentially Death Row) for having been the ones to make the moves that got him out of prison, so he wanted to prove it on a regular basis.  It's no different than returning a favor to someone by doing something for them that you wouldn't normally want to do, but you do it anyway since you owe them.  And seeing how it was Suge and not Dre who helped him out, of course he sided with Suge.

And who told him to say all that shit?  His owner Suge Knight.  Tupac WAS his own man before death row.  With Suge he became his servant, slave, lackey, catcher, property, and yes BITCH.

Well, about that, Pac did express his displeasure to Suge about what happened at Club 662 to one of the Wu-Tang guys who got jumped and convinced him to get the chain back (which Pac gave to Method Man) and get the main guy involved to offer whoever it was from the Wu the chance to catch a fade if they wanted to (again communicated through Method Man), though of course they let it go.  So it's not like Pac was always siding with Suge regardless of his opinion on the matter.

Snoop didn't patch it up with Dre until he went to Master P's No Limit Records.

Well, there weren't any problems between them, though Snoop had gone on record back in the day about having asked Dre to work on Tha Doggfather, but of course Dre still wanted to keep his distance from Death Row, so he didn't contribute anything toward it but still maintained ties on a friendship level with him.

Again, this is not just me saying this.  People who were close to tupac before death row have said the same things repeatedly.  I don't remember anyone other than tupac choosing any sides at that time, but even if they did of course they would side with Suge.  They were signed to death row.  Suge was their slave master at that time. 
As it turns out we now know that the only person who was his own man an that label was Dre.  Everybody else was just content to suck Suge's cock.

But again, a lot of these people were employed by Suge, who was the guy putting money in their pockets, which let them feed their families.  Why leave your job?  Dre's departure was basically like any other high-position person at a company leaving because they didn't want to be a part of the organization anymore, but of course Dre already had enough money (along with talent and a name) to be fine without Death Row.  And at the same time, it's not like everyone there could just leave Death Row for another label.  East Coast labels weren't really working with them, and it's not like they could go to Ruthless.  They could go to Priority, but they didn't have the same things to offer as Death Row, which was easily the hottest label at the time.

By the way, the part about Dre and Eazy talking about a NWA reunion is 100% false. Dre never talked to Eazy directly about that supposed reunion; Dre has claimed on multiple occasions he made peace with Eazy when he was unconscious at the hospital.

Unless Dre can read minds, there was no direct contact about that reunion.

You are correct, though I believe one of them (I can't remember who) ran into Ice Cube a while after he dropped No Vaseline and was happy to see them, mentioning the idea of a possible reunion.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

[Chamillitary Click]

You can always count on a thread titled "Pac & Dre" to go at least seven pages.

[Escrooge]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

Google MK-Ultra...mind control fam...its alot of that shit going on in the industry...Michael Jackson was the shit too...but his handlers wouldn't totally give him creative control either..imo...its more to the story that we ain't seeing....swizz beatz producing chillin?.....don't add up.....on that youtube video Dre didn't even look happy. It's a fuckin shame and a crime to have put somebody else in bondage......I understand bizness is bizness...but whats really going on truthfully? Its some foul shit that goes on in this world....he should say fuck jimmy like he did suge.....let his deal expire and go independant....he would be blackballed fo sho.....but he got money so fuck them haters!!!!

[3rd Coast]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...

legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.

Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.

Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.

[Dre-Day]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...

legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.

Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.

Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.

but he seems to be happy with the current situation

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Jimmy has the last word in everything involving Aftermath & Dre. Ain't that a bitch?

That's called having a job. With a boss.

You would think the biggest producer in hip hop since the 90s would be his own boss by now. Dre seems to always need someone telling him what to do.

truest statement I've heard In a long time....I been thinking the same thing....the man can't even probably put on Detox the artists he would want I bet either!!!

he cant... especially if they on another major...its better to have ya own roster 4 shit like this..u aint gotta go thru all the legal shit to get cleared...

ex big boi not havin at least one andre3000 verse on his album...

its politics

Thing is.....Puffy can do whatever the hell he wants. So can Timbaland. Its hard to believe that Dre is the exception. The man should be able to do whatever the fuck he wants on sheer star power. I can't see how its anything other than his lack of being his own man.

u crazy if u think that...they gotta go thru the same legal shit dre n others go thru..cept they aint perfectionist like dre...

legal shit? wtf are you talking about? If Puffy wants a feature on his record he gets it.

Actually so does Dre. There's all these artists claiming to have worked with him except the shit never comes out.

Those dudes put out the albums they want to put out. If Dre is being forced to put out a certain sound its cause his ass is playing slave instead of being his own man.

but he seems to be happy with the current situation

I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.

[Jimmy H.]

I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.

  I'd say Dre probably has more creative freedom than most when it comes to major labels. Nobody (not Puffy, not Wayne, not Jay-Z, not 50 Cent) is getting to make music without answering to someone else. I'd venture to believe Dre likes his spot though. Jimmy's letting him take his sweet-ass time making Detox. He's not getting poorer. Let's look at the track record. It's not like he was afraid to move from similiar situations in the past when he didn't like what was going on.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

I haven't said he doesn't. In fact I've been saying this whole time its up to him. He must like being told what to do.

 I'd say Dre probably has more creative freedom than most when it comes to major labels. Nobody (not Puffy, not Wayne, not Jay-Z, not 50 Cent) is getting to make music without answering to someone else. I'd venture to believe Dre likes his spot though. Jimmy's letting him take his sweet-ass time making Detox. He's not getting poorer. Let's look at the track record. It's not like he was afraid to move from similiar situations in the past when he didn't like what was going on.

Those were different situations. Eazy was fucking him out of money, Suge was involved with gangbanging. I don't know the exact relationship he has with Jimmy, but everyone here seems to think that Dre's current musical direction is due to Jimmy's influence.

If Snoop can put out an album with country songs, Dre can put out the album he wants. And I'm fairly sure no one was telling Puffy to put out an R&B album. Dre is possibly the only artist who can put out weak disappointing songs and have radio stations playing it, at least until it fails to catch on with the public. If Jimmy is really that controlling to not let Dre do what he wants, he could easily move on to another label. Dre's current music sounds the way it is because either because he wants to do it or someone's telling him to. Take your pick.

And if its because someone's telling him to, that's really due to his lack of being his own man.

[Sir Petey]

look at the way detox is shaping up...every interscope artist got a spot on that shit lol

dre owes jimmy for bailing his career out multiple times and hence detox is now a promotion vehicle for interscope and beats by dre and nothing more.

its lost all of its integrity as a project as far as im concerned.

[Jimmy H.]

Those were different situations. Eazy was fucking him out of money, Suge was involved with gangbanging. I don't know the exact relationship he has with Jimmy, but everyone here seems to think that Dre's current musical direction is due to Jimmy's influence.

If Snoop can put out an album with country songs, Dre can put out the album he wants. And I'm fairly sure no one was telling Puffy to put out an R&B album. Dre is possibly the only artist who can put out weak disappointing songs and have radio stations playing it, at least until it fails to catch on with the public. If Jimmy is really that controlling to not let Dre do what he wants, he could easily move on to another label. Dre's current music sounds the way it is because either because he wants to do it or someone's telling him to. Take your pick.

And if its because someone's telling him to, that's really due to his lack of being his own man.

What everyone here thinks isn't neccesarily relevant. Popular opinion doesn't equal out to truth, no matter how many people believe it. I think every mainstream artist has to follow a formula. There's nobody on any label that can just put out whatever they want regardless of how the public treats it. I don't think Dre can "put out weak dissapointing songs" and have the radio station play it because radio is a business just like anything else. They need the numbers to support what they're doing or they're out of jobs.

Snoop

[DeeezNuuuts83]

What everyone here thinks isn't neccesarily relevant. Popular opinion doesn't equal out to truth, no matter how many people believe it. I think every mainstream artist has to follow a formula. There's nobody on any label that can just put out whatever they want regardless of how the public treats it. I don't think Dre can "put out weak dissapointing songs" and have the radio station play it because radio is a business just like anything else. They need the numbers to support what they're doing or they're out of jobs.

But it's happened before... Dre put out some weak ass beats, but the songs still got radio play and the albums still moved units because they label it as being Dr. Dre produced... i.e. Family Affair by Mary J. Blige, Hate in Yo Eyes by Mack 10, Break Ya Neck by Busta Rhymes, etc.

[Greenbrigade]

look at the way detox is shaping up...every interscope artist got a spot on that shit lol

dre owes jimmy for bailing his career out multiple times and hence detox is now a promotion vehicle for interscope and beats by dre and nothing more.

its lost all of its integrity as a project as far as im concerned.

This. But you forgot HP, g-shock gatorade and nike. Interscope videos aint nuthin but 3-4 minute adverts.

[Sir Petey]

right.


i respect the hustle but still man, you cant expect your music is gonna retain its edge and integrity when corporate america has there hands all in the project.
what im hoping is that dre actually does the whookid mixtape and uses the leaks on that and comes out with some new singles for detox, but i doubt it.