Regardless of how u feel... Obama has done more than any Official in history

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Go to a school anywhere in California and see how many Mexicans can get away with saying "white boy" in a derogatory way, then see what happens to the kid who says "spic".

Its the price to be paid for living in a society where Whites are still on top. I'm sure any minority group out there would trade in their ability to call a white guy a "white boy", in exchange for running the country

Lol.  So its ok because white people are in "power".  Can I walk around calling every black dude a nigger cause the presidents half black?

And I think youre giving people who would say that too much credit, its like saying minorities are racist because they are subjugated and whites are racist because they wanna be.  BS.

A black man is president does not equate to black people having equal power in society. If Hilary had won would the sexes suddenly be equal? lol

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Go to a school anywhere in California and see how many Mexicans can get away with saying "white boy" in a derogatory way, then see what happens to the kid who says "spic".

Its the price to be paid for living in a society where Whites are still on top. I'm sure any minority group out there would trade in their ability to call a white guy a "white boy", in exchange for running the country

Or maybe white people would simply have to got through hell on earth in a society in which white people are a poor, powerless minority.

Lol.  They did.  First and Second wave immigration to the US.  The irish built many of the highways and infastructure because it was such a dangerous job and got paid shit for it, and experienced often violent discrimination from "natives".  Shows their position in society pretty well.  Just one example.  Theres many more.

That's an interesting example to use because when the Irish first immigrated they weren't seen as white people. They were seen as inferior beings, like other minority groups. Obviously the fact you and others now claim them as "one of us" shows how perspectives have shifted over time.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

The education system, medicade, etc. aren't business models. Their purpose isn't to make anyone money. They are here as basic necessities that everyone should have a right to. If your business idea fails and you don't make a ton of money, too bad for you. Its not a big deal to the rest of the country. But why in the blue hell would you be arguing against people being given the basic right to live and the chance to survive in this world?

This I don't get. How is medicare a right? Liberty is a right. Being taxed and than given substandard healthcare assistance isn't. It's helpful, and in this nanny state the USA is becoming, pretty necessary, but it is in no way a right.

You're right in that it could use much improvement. However health care is better than no health care.

How is Liberty more of a right? You'd rather be free than alive?

That's a pointless question since you didn't answer the question: how is medicare a right?

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

The education system, medicade, etc. aren't business models. Their purpose isn't to make anyone money. They are here as basic necessities that everyone should have a right to. If your business idea fails and you don't make a ton of money, too bad for you. Its not a big deal to the rest of the country. But why in the blue hell would you be arguing against people being given the basic right to live and the chance to survive in this world?

This I don't get. How is medicare a right? Liberty is a right. Being taxed and than given substandard healthcare assistance isn't. It's helpful, and in this nanny state the USA is becoming, pretty necessary, but it is in no way a right.

You're right in that it could use much improvement. However health care is better than no health care.

How is Liberty more of a right? You'd rather be free than alive?

That's a pointless question since you didn't answer the question: how is medicare a right?

Not medicare itself. BUt imo having available health care is a right everyone should have. Medicare is one of the current attempts at that goal.

[Russell Bell]

The education system, medicade, etc. aren't business models. Their purpose isn't to make anyone money. They are here as basic necessities that everyone should have a right to. If your business idea fails and you don't make a ton of money, too bad for you. Its not a big deal to the rest of the country. But why in the blue hell would you be arguing against people being given the basic right to live and the chance to survive in this world?

This I don't get. How is medicare a right? Liberty is a right. Being taxed and than given substandard healthcare assistance isn't. It's helpful, and in this nanny state the USA is becoming, pretty necessary, but it is in no way a right.

You're right in that it could use much improvement. However health care is better than no health care.

How is Liberty more of a right? You'd rather be free than alive?

That's a pointless question since you didn't answer the question: how is medicare a right?

Not medicare itself. BUt imo having available health care is a right everyone should have. Medicare is one of the current attempts at that goal.

Ok, first off, competition = better service and lower prices.  Because we have a system run by the insurance industry and govt, we have higher costs 4 everything.  U can't see a doctor for less than 50 bucks because everyone needs their cut.  That's what he was saying by using a business analogy and applying it to health care.

Health care is not guaranteed.  People who want universal health care want a wider net to be cast (more people covered), ok, who will pay for that?  The taxpayers who already probably pay for healthcare will foot the bill and over time it will become harder and harder to sustain.  Social security crisis, medicade crisis, ring a bell??

Next, would i rather be free than anything else?  Yeah, I would.  If you were born in another country beside the US (3rd world, etc), you would feel the same because you would know what it was like not to have freedom.  In fact, "Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is literally guaranteed to us, not health care, the govt paying our bills, cheap college tuition, or things like that.  Would that be nice?  Sure, but it is not practical.

Last, I never said having a black pres made everyone equal.  That was simply an example since you said it was ok (or at least kinda justified) for other races to denegrate whites because they "rule the country", when clearly that is no longer the case.  Just using the same standard u used.  And yeah, that does mean, from the political systems standpoint, that a black man or any other person of any color can reach the same heights as a white person.  Does that mean that no one is racist ever?  Well of course not, because that is impossible, especially judging from some of the responses in this thread.  The best you can hope for is a system that isn't unproportionally unfair to one group of people, and that is rapidly eroding as we speak.

I used the example of the Irish being discriminated on because it proves that the newer the race of people is to the country in mainstream society, the harder they have it.  This is not an experience limited to "people of color" like people nowadays like to think.  This is not a different perspective, actually its the opposite, because history repeats itself.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Ok, first off, competition = better service and lower prices.  Because we have a system run by the insurance industry and govt, we have higher costs 4 everything.  U can't see a doctor for less than 50 bucks because everyone needs their cut.  That's what he was saying by using a business analogy and applying it to health care.

You're living in a fantasy world. If that were true don't you think every industry would have dirt cheap prices? In the real business world, businesses are out to make money by any means possible. Prices fluctuate based on a variety of reasons. They can be low at times, but they can also be sky high. Businesses rise and fall overnight. Why would you entrust something as important as health care to this kind of system?

It boggles the mind how someone who doesn't trust the government wants to place their well-being in the hands of corporations.

Health care is not guaranteed.  People who want universal health care want a wider net to be cast (more people covered), ok, who will pay for that?  The taxpayers who already probably pay for healthcare will foot the bill and over time it will become harder and harder to sustain.  Social security crisis, medicade crisis, ring a bell??

Imo this is a null argument to make based on real world examples. If every other country is able to sustain some sort of universal health care then we can too. The government may waste a lot of money away, but health care should be one of its priorities.

Next, would i rather be free than anything else?  Yeah, I would.  If you were born in another country beside the US (3rd world, etc), you would feel the same because you would know what it was like not to have freedom.  In fact, "Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is literally guaranteed to us, not health care, the govt paying our bills, cheap college tuition, or things like that.  Would that be nice?  Sure, but it is not practical.

I'm sure you'd rather be alive than free. That's an extreme example, but still.

btw, cheap college tuition is way more practical than your right to bear arms or smoke cigarettes. In today's world a college degree is pretty much required for a decent job. It makes sense for this service to be offered to everyone.

Last, I never said having a black pres made everyone equal.  That was simply an example since you said it was ok (or at least kinda justified) for other races to denegrate whites because they "rule the country", when clearly that is no longer the case.  Just using the same standard u used.

Where did "I" say it was okay? I haven't spoken on that at all.

But I do want to touch on what you said. Since when is "white boy" a derogatory term?

And yeah, that does mean, from the political systems standpoint, that a black man or any other person of any color can reach the same heights as a white person.

And on average the climb is much much harder. One particular instance does not make a generality.

The best you can hope for is a system that isn't unproportionally unfair to one group of people, and that is rapidly eroding as we speak.

The US has come a long way and its a lot better off than it was 15 years ago. But it still has quite a ways to go.

I used the example of the Irish being discriminated on because it proves that the newer the race of people is to the country in mainstream society, the harder they have it.  This is not an experience limited to "people of color" like people nowadays like to think.  This is not a different perspective, actually its the opposite, because history repeats itself.

lol again, one example does not prove anything. In fact I'll disprove it right now. Native Americans and Hispanics have had it hard and they were here before the white people. Honestly when it comes to history repeating itself, what I've seen in America is whites discriminating against any group of people they find different.

[Russell Bell]

If you don't see that the govt is a corporation, then i dont know what to tell you.  I never said they automatically have dirt cheap prices, this isn't black and white.  Competition breeds better services and prices.  Right now, and the way things are headed, we will have less choices, more waiting, more of a strapped system.  You can't compare our country to Canada or the UK because of our poverty level (aka more deadbeats for the mainstream taxpayer to support in universal health care) and huge population.  The cost of health care skyrockets because of the insurance companies involvement, instead of being able to pay out of pocket directly to a physician for routine services and having insurance only for catastrophes, we have insurance involved in every aspect of health care.  The system that people like you want will not solve that fundamental problem.

You are confusing "practical" with "ideal".  Freedom is practical because it doesn't force anything on anyone, and gives the power of choice (IE you want it, go out and get it).  Of course it would be nice for everyone to go to college, but how would this be FINANCIALLY practical?  It wouldn't be.  The govt would go broke (broker than it already is) and not to mention the adverse negative effects it would have on quality of education and class size.

As for the white boy thing its all about the context, you cant possibly pretend that this term cant be offensive in the right situation.  No its not the same as saying nigger its just funny the double standard people have in our country.  If I said "black boy" I would be crucified and probably end up on the news lol.

And saying that the climb for blacks in politics is much harder isnt a generality?  My point is, there is no law or political standard that makes it a tougher climb.  Problems within their own communities (drugs, gangs, broken families) are the culprits, not a racist system.  Notice i didnt say "there arent any racists"?

Native Americans are a completely different issue.  They even have their own govts aka they dont fit into our political debate like the other racial groups.  They have proportionally ridiculously higher alcoholism rates which is a huge self perpetuating problem right there.  Hispanics, they suffer from the fact that their actual country's govt is weak, cant get rid of cartels, and have no real freedom/democracy.  So they go back and forth from here to there and become a permanent low class.  The more assimilated they get the more they will be able to succeed (learning the language, valuing education, etc).  Look at asians, they come here and place a high value on education and succeed because of it.  These problems have little to do with contemporary white discrimination.