Author Topic: is Islam an Arab Religion ?  (Read 663 times)

morbidenigma

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is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« on: April 14, 2011, 08:30:56 AM »
let's look at the facts

Mohammed the founder was ARAB
The Quranic text was only given in ARABIC
Prayer can only be performed in the ARABIC language
Prayer has to be performed in a direction facing Mecca in ARABIA
the word Islam is itself an ARAB verb
Allah the name of Islam's monotheistic deity was also the name of a Pagan moon good worshipped in ARABIA
The Islamic Pilgrimage of Hajj can only be carried out in Mecca in ARABIA
Muslims greet each other by saying 'assalamo alaikum ' an ARAB language greeting, which means 'peace be to you'. It is NO reaffirmation of Islamic belief yet is used by ALL Muslims.
 
discuss
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 08:37:36 AM by Momo »
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 08:49:48 AM »
Did you know that Judaism is a Jewish religion and that Hinduism is an Indian religon?
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 01:15:18 PM »
^^ what relevance does that have to this ?
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 11:39:55 AM »
I think the point Teddy is making is that all major religions focus on their own people/culture and they all tend to make themselves the "apple of God's eye" so to speak.

If you ask me, they're all similar interpretations on what these people believe the supreme being of the universe is all about. They're most likely all wrong though.
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2011, 01:50:35 PM »

Allah the name of Islam's monotheistic deity was also the name of a Pagan moon good worshipped in ARABIA


Don't think so.. the name of "Lah" part of Allah means God, and so other gods may have been called "ilah" or "lah".  Because "ilah" or "lah" means God in Arabic.   But once you put the "A" in the front you are talking about "THE GOD" and negating all other gods.  Consistent with the confession of faith which declares that "There is no god but Allah".  


The Quranic text was only given in ARABIC


It was revealed in Arabic because the Qu'ran was to be the last revelation of God, and therefore it must be memorized and must not be altered.  Therefore it had to be revealed in a language that contained rhythm and rhyme such as Arabic, thus the Qu'ran is easier to memorize in Arabic then any other language, and when you hear it read in it's original language you can memorize it like you would a song; which would not be possible in English for example.  Arabic culture was rich in poetry, and poetry was really popular in the time of Muhammad, so Muhammad had to come with poetry, rhyme, rhythm in the Qu'ran that was superior to that of any poets to prove it was divinely inspired.


Prayer can only be performed in the ARABIC language


That's because it would change the meaning if it weren't performed in Arabic.   The more you translate the further you get away from the original source and meaning.  So therefore, it would make sense that prayers should be spoken in Arabic; however as someone is learning they may use their local language as long as they are intending to learn it more closely to it's original language.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 01:58:13 PM by Infinite- African West Coastin' 2010 »
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Cey_Cey

Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2011, 02:15:20 PM »
of course quran text is arabic... because the prophet was living in arabia and he was talking arabic language. actually his grandfathers wasnt arab. so he wasn't an arab ethnicly. but nationally he was arab. like every people from different nationalities who are living in u.s.a calling themself "american". anyway. i am a turkish. and i am a muslim. and i don't know arabic language. and i dont need to know. because there is translation of it. and i don't greet people "selamın aleyküm" because my language is turkish. i prefer to use my language all the time. but yeah some people likes to use that word for greeting. and i am praying to god with turkish words. i call god with a turkish word "tanrı".

however there are a lot non-arab muslim acts like, wears like an arab. because some arabic traditions became a part of islam in past years. that was the worst thing could happen for islam. because it kills me to see a turkish muslim woman who covers her head with turban like an arab woman. she doesn't know it is an arabic way of wearing. she thinks it is islamic. it kilss me to see a turkish man who prays arabic all the time. but he really has no fuckin idea about what he is saying to god.

for me, islam was not an arab religion. but it mixed with some stupid traditions and misunderstandings in past years, i mean more then 1000 year. but if u have a good translation of quran, u read it and think about what it is telling. u will understand it is not an arab religion. but there is fact that there are a lot people from other nationalities living their religion like it is an arabic religion. and like i said before... it is killing me...

« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 02:28:22 PM by Cey_Cey »
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 02:25:09 PM »
That's because it would change the meaning if it weren't performed in Arabic.   The more you translate the further you get away from the original source and meaning.  So therefore, it would make sense that prayers should be spoken in Arabic; however as someone is learning they may use their local language as long as they are intending to learn it more closely to it's original language.

i dont agree... arabic language is a very hard language to learn and speak. if u say same word with a different tone, it means really something different. so i don't know arabic and when i try to pray with original arabic text, i am sure i pronounce wrong and it doesnt mean what text means. also the arabic language written in quran is different then the arabic language of 21th century now. it makes me feel good to know what i am telling to god. the most important thing is god knows what i am trying to tell him. also i know.

if u think translations are always away from the original meaning it means we the other nations won't be able to understand islam. never and ever. but god tells in quran that he sent this religion to all the people around the world. so i advice all the people to read the translation of quran and pray with their own language.
otherwise u will keep asking urself "is islam an arab religion?"
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 12:22:21 AM »
That's because it would change the meaning if it weren't performed in Arabic.   The more you translate the further you get away from the original source and meaning.  So therefore, it would make sense that prayers should be spoken in Arabic; however as someone is learning they may use their local language as long as they are intending to learn it more closely to it's original language.

i dont agree... arabic language is a very hard language to learn and speak. if u say same word with a different tone, it means really something different. so i don't know arabic and when i try to pray with original arabic text, i am sure i pronounce wrong and it doesnt mean what text means. also the arabic language written in quran is different then the arabic language of 21th century now. it makes me feel good to know what i am telling to god. the most important thing is god knows what i am trying to tell him. also i know.

if u think translations are always away from the original meaning it means we the other nations won't be able to understand islam. never and ever. but god tells in quran that he sent this religion to all the people around the world. so i advice all the people to read the translation of quran and pray with their own language.
otherwise u will keep asking urself "is islam an arab religion?"

I don't have any problem with what you just said.  But I was just trying to explain why prayers are generally said in Arabic... but the way you put it is fine with me
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Cey_Cey

Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2011, 02:04:06 AM »
That's because it would change the meaning if it weren't performed in Arabic.   The more you translate the further you get away from the original source and meaning.  So therefore, it would make sense that prayers should be spoken in Arabic; however as someone is learning they may use their local language as long as they are intending to learn it more closely to it's original language.

i dont agree... arabic language is a very hard language to learn and speak. if u say same word with a different tone, it means really something different. so i don't know arabic and when i try to pray with original arabic text, i am sure i pronounce wrong and it doesnt mean what text means. also the arabic language written in quran is different then the arabic language of 21th century now. it makes me feel good to know what i am telling to god. the most important thing is god knows what i am trying to tell him. also i know.

if u think translations are always away from the original meaning it means we the other nations won't be able to understand islam. never and ever. but god tells in quran that he sent this religion to all the people around the world. so i advice all the people to read the translation of quran and pray with their own language.
otherwise u will keep asking urself "is islam an arab religion?"

I don't have any problem with what you just said.  But I was just trying to explain why prayers are generally said in Arabic... but the way you put it is fine with me

ok i understand you...yes u are right... there is a wrong belief(this is my opinion) about praying in arabic is the one and only right way...and it is very common.
what do you think about cat steven became a muslim and now he looks like an arab with his beard and cloths. things like this make people think it is an arabic religion.
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 08:25:44 AM »

ok i understand you...yes u are right... there is a wrong belief(this is my opinion) about praying in arabic is the one and only right way...and it is very common.
what do you think about cat steven became a muslim and now he looks like an arab with his beard and cloths. things like this make people think it is an arabic religion.

Good point about Cat Stevens. But he's basically doing what the traditional Sunni scholars would instruct.  So if you really want to break it down we need to call the "Sunnah" that was developed a couple hundred years after the Prophet saws into question... and I don't think your willing to do that.

But bro, if you look at your opinions I can see a common theme in them.   Think about it.   You are a Turkish Muslim.  Turks were the world leaders in Islam from around the 15th century all the way to the beggining of the 20th century, until what?   Until the Arabs stabbed them in the back in the run-up and during WW1.   What was the Turkish cause/effect of that?  An ultra-nationalistic movement of their own, and a leader emerged, Attaturk, who wanted to remodel the country in a way that would remove all Arab influence culturally and otherwise.

So then look at yourself.  You are a proud Muslim (from having lead the Ummah from 15th to 20th Century), you have nationalistic pride (from the educational and political system instituted by Attaturk promoted), and you sound a little bitter towards Arabs (lingering beef over them stabbing the Turks in the back in the early 1900's).


 
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Cey_Cey

Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 09:28:33 AM »

ok i understand you...yes u are right... there is a wrong belief(this is my opinion) about praying in arabic is the one and only right way...and it is very common.
what do you think about cat steven became a muslim and now he looks like an arab with his beard and cloths. things like this make people think it is an arabic religion.

Good point about Cat Stevens. But he's basically doing what the traditional Sunni scholars would instruct.  So if you really want to break it down we need to call the "Sunnah" that was developed a couple hundred years after the Prophet saws into question... and I don't think your willing to do that.

But bro, if you look at your opinions I can see a common theme in them.   Think about it.   You are a Turkish Muslim.  Turks were the world leaders in Islam from around the 15th century all the way to the beggining of the 20th century, until what?   Until the Arabs stabbed them in the back in the run-up and during WW1.   What was the Turkish cause/effect of that?  An ultra-nationalistic movement of their own, and a leader emerged, Attaturk, who wanted to remodel the country in a way that would remove all Arab influence culturally and otherwise.

So then look at yourself.  You are a proud Muslim (from having lead the Ummah from 15th to 20th Century), you have nationalistic pride (from the educational and political system instituted by Attaturk promoted), and you sound a little bitter towards Arabs (lingering beef over them stabbing the Turks in the back in the early 1900's).

I am sunni too. sunni traditions are not about how you gonna wear or how you gonna live your personal life. it is a way of understanding islam and applying ur belief.

i appreciate ur history knowledge. u are right about we represented islam for many hundred years, that is why europeans still call any muslim with "turk" word. it means "muslim" to them. like serbains call bosnians "turk" to swear them.

when it comes to ataturk. i dont agree he was an ultra nationalist. he was just a nationalist. ultra nationalist kinda sounds like racist. he was a nationalist muslim and he realized that we need a seculer system and democracy to develop and become a modern country. today turkey is the one and only modern, developed country which has muslim population. look at other muslim countries, iran, syria, suudi arabia, iraq, libia, jordan, egypt. they don't even know what democracy means. i don't blame them. thats the destiny of middle east. emperialist countries always telling that they want democracy to come middle east. no they don't want. they prefer the available situation to manage those countries. damn in suudi arabia a woman can't drive car. but in 1935 in turkey women had righst to be able to elected as a senator in parliament. france and italy could do it in 1946. the only way for ataturk in those conditions of that age to found a modern republic based on nationalism and secular regime to develop. because leading the ummah and tryin to put a nation together according to a religion is not working. and it didnt work, we experianced it in first world war. as u reminded arabs were the first ones who stabbed us back with the help of christian englishs. today we see how truth was it what ataturk did.

i look at myself. i am proud of being a muslim but i hate who represents islam in a way which it is not actually and yeah i admire ataturk who fighted against emperialism as a commander in war and who founded and developed a republic as a leader as a president. today i can vote for who i want and a woman can be the prime minister. it already happened by the way. today i can go to mosque and pray with my people while muslims being killed in a mosque in iraq or phalestine.

sorry if i got out from the line of subject.

you know what is the problem; the most important difference between islam and other religions, islam is also arranging social life, with advices and even with laws. but they were for that age in that age's conditions. and some people still want to obey some rules written in quran which can be only avalible in its age and they deny the modern world and modern human rights.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 03:13:48 PM by Cey_Cey »
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 06:04:11 PM »


I am sunni too. sunni traditions are not about how you gonna wear or how you gonna live your personal life. it is a way of understanding islam and applying ur belief.

i appreciate ur history knowledge. u are right about we represented islam for many hundred years, that is why europeans still call any muslim with "turk" word. it means "muslim" to them. like serbains call bosnians "turk" to swear them.

when it comes to ataturk. i dont agree he was an ultra nationalist. he was just a nationalist. ultra nationalist kinda sounds like racist. he was a nationalist muslim and he realized that we need a seculer system and democracy to develop and become a modern country. today turkey is the one and only modern, developed country which has muslim population. look at other muslim countries, iran, syria, suudi arabia, iraq, libia, jordan, egypt. they don't even know what democracy means. i don't blame them. thats the destiny of middle east. emperialist countries always telling that they want democracy to come middle east. no they don't want. they prefer the available situation to manage those countries. damn in suudi arabia a woman can't drive car. but in 1935 in turkey women had righst to be able to elected as a senator in parliament. france and italy could do it in 1946. the only way for ataturk in those conditions of that age to found a modern republic based on nationalism and secular regime to develop. because leading the ummah and tryin to put a nation together according to a religion is not working. and it didnt work, we experianced it in first world war. as u reminded arabs were the first ones who stabbed us back with the help of christian englishs. today we see how truth was it what ataturk did.

i look at myself. i am proud of being a muslim but i hate who represents islam in a way which it is not actually and yeah i admire ataturk who fighted against emperialism as a commander in war and who founded and developed a republic as a leader as a president. today i can vote for who i want and a woman can be the prime minister. it already happened by the way. today i can go to mosque and pray with my people while muslims being killed in a mosque in iraq or phalestine.

sorry if i got out from the line of subject.

you know what is the problem; the most important difference between islam and other religions, islam is also arranging social life, with advices and even with laws. but they were for that age in that age's conditions. and some people still want to obey some rules written in quran which can be only avalible in its age and they deny the modern world and modern human rights.


Yeah, it's like I was saying.   I wasn't taking a jab at you or taking a jab at Attaturk.  I was just pointing out a common theme I could see in your posts about Islam, but that doesn't mean I was saying there was anything wrong with it.  To add to what you said, Turkey is still a leader in the Muslim world, because they have managed to be one of the only Muslim nations since WW1 to not be colonized, to remain relatively peaceful, and exist harmoniously amongst the modern world and the Muslim world.  Of course back in my more orthodox days as a Muslim I hated Attaturk and considered him a trader and so on... but now I can see the logic in much of his thinking.

Yet, as far as the Sunnah goes.  I think you would have to admit that some of your statements, ideas, those of your countrymen, Attaturk, etc... do go against traditional, orthodox Sunni legal code.   Because traditional Sunni scholars of the 4 schools would be very unlikely to say that it's okay to take upon a legal system other than that of the Shariah.  And as you mentioned above the Turks have developed a constitution since Attaturk that is seperate from the Shariah and you even said that the Shariah is outdated.   Do you admit that such statements are against traditional "Sunni" Islam?
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Cey_Cey

Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2011, 05:04:03 AM »
Yeah, it's like I was saying.   I wasn't taking a jab at you or taking a jab at Attaturk.  I was just pointing out a common theme I could see in your posts about Islam, but that doesn't mean I was saying there was anything wrong with it.  To add to what you said, Turkey is still a leader in the Muslim world, because they have managed to be one of the only Muslim nations since WW1 to not be colonized, to remain relatively peaceful, and exist harmoniously amongst the modern world and the Muslim world.  Of course back in my more orthodox days as a Muslim I hated Attaturk and considered him a trader and so on... but now I can see the logic in much of his thinking.

Yet, as far as the Sunnah goes.  I think you would have to admit that some of your statements, ideas, those of your countrymen, Attaturk, etc... do go against traditional, orthodox Sunni legal code.   Because traditional Sunni scholars of the 4 schools would be very unlikely to say that it's okay to take upon a legal system other than that of the Shariah.  And as you mentioned above the Turks have developed a constitution since Attaturk that is seperate from the Shariah and you even said that the Shariah is outdated.   Do you admit that such statements are against traditional "Sunni" Islam?

i can see that u are not taking a jab. i am not offended. i respect the way you think.
when it comes to your question about do i admit my statements are against traditional "sunni" islam, my answer is maybe yes maybe no. because it depends on how you define sunni islam. my grand grand fathers were sunni scholars, they were traveling far villages, far mountains to teach islam. but today, i don't like to call myself a sunni. we muslims are othering each other unconciously for years, i am sunni, you are shia, i am this and you are that... hey, we are all muslims first, right?

sunni islam's founder scholar was ebu-hanife(imam-ı azam). there is a story about him. once a person comes and claming him with he is telling things against quran. and ebu-hanife asks him
-is woman or man weaker?
the other one answers "woman"... ebu-hanife asks again;
-how much the share of woman on the heritage?
the other one answers "woman takes one peice, man takes 2 peices"...ebu-hanife says;
-isn't this the advice of ur god and ur prophet? if i was telling things against quran as u claimed, i would say woman is weak, the jobs she can work are limitted, but man is strong, he can find a job to work and earn money anyway. so i would give 2 peices to woman and 1 piece to man. but i am not telling this. i am following the quran.

i am following quran, sunnah of my prophet and scholar ebu-hanife who all are telling us to use our mind first. because god tells us the mind is the most important thing he gave us. so i don't think i am against my god, my prophet and ebu-hanife. but i am against the peception of sunni islam in 21th century.
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 09:17:32 AM »
Yeah, it's like I was saying.   I wasn't taking a jab at you or taking a jab at Attaturk.  I was just pointing out a common theme I could see in your posts about Islam, but that doesn't mean I was saying there was anything wrong with it.  To add to what you said, Turkey is still a leader in the Muslim world, because they have managed to be one of the only Muslim nations since WW1 to not be colonized, to remain relatively peaceful, and exist harmoniously amongst the modern world and the Muslim world.  Of course back in my more orthodox days as a Muslim I hated Attaturk and considered him a trader and so on... but now I can see the logic in much of his thinking.

Yet, as far as the Sunnah goes.  I think you would have to admit that some of your statements, ideas, those of your countrymen, Attaturk, etc... do go against traditional, orthodox Sunni legal code.   Because traditional Sunni scholars of the 4 schools would be very unlikely to say that it's okay to take upon a legal system other than that of the Shariah.  And as you mentioned above the Turks have developed a constitution since Attaturk that is seperate from the Shariah and you even said that the Shariah is outdated.   Do you admit that such statements are against traditional "Sunni" Islam?

i can see that u are not taking a jab. i am not offended. i respect the way you think.
when it comes to your question about do i admit my statements are against traditional "sunni" islam, my answer is maybe yes maybe no. because it depends on how you define sunni islam. my grand grand fathers were sunni scholars, they were traveling far villages, far mountains to teach islam. but today, i don't like to call myself a sunni. we muslims are othering each other unconciously for years, i am sunni, you are shia, i am this and you are that... hey, we are all muslims first, right?

sunni islam's founder scholar was ebu-hanife(imam-ı azam). there is a story about him. once a person comes and claming him with he is telling things against quran. and ebu-hanife asks him
-is woman or man weaker?
the other one answers "woman"... ebu-hanife asks again;
-how much the share of woman on the heritage?
the other one answers "woman takes one peice, man takes 2 peices"...ebu-hanife says;
-isn't this the advice of ur god and ur prophet? if i was telling things against quran as u claimed, i would say woman is weak, the jobs she can work are limitted, but man is strong, he can find a job to work and earn money anyway. so i would give 2 peices to woman and 1 piece to man. but i am not telling this. i am following the quran.

i am following quran, sunnah of my prophet and scholar ebu-hanife who all are telling us to use our mind first. because god tells us the mind is the most important thing he gave us. so i don't think i am against my god, my prophet and ebu-hanife. but i am against the peception of sunni islam in 21th century.


well said... and it's too bad that more Muslims don't have the depth of understanding that you have benefited from. 
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"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2011, 10:51:10 AM »
not sure what your question is for this thread but yes it is arabic.  what are you really saying?
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2011, 06:19:28 AM »
^^ how can you claim a Religion is for everyone when they they are so many clear regional aspects to it ?
 

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2011, 09:50:07 AM »
^^ how can you claim a Religion is for everyone when they they are so many clear regional aspects to it ?
There isn't a regional aspect, there's a cultrual aspect. Not only do religons start from certain cultures, cultures are modified to conform to religon (and to certain degrees the other way around).
 

Raphael

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2011, 01:05:33 PM »
A little late eh.. They are even giving money to white secular European muslims and as a result there are now wahabists in Bosnia plus all the Mosques and Minarets around Europe that are being built. Islam=Arab culture and its the same with most religions so I'm not singling out Islam. But Islam seems to have the most devoted and brainwashed followers so far.
 

morbidenigma

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2011, 12:04:48 PM »
There isn't a regional aspect, there's a cultrual aspect. Not only do religons start from certain cultures, cultures are modified to conform to religon (and to certain degrees the other way around).
[/quote]

yes the culture of that region

same meaning
 

morbidenigma

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2011, 01:40:10 PM »
also if Allah is omniscient, hence omni lingual why can you only pray to him in traditional arabic ?
 

BG Rapsodie

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2011, 03:42:51 PM »
Islam isn't an "arab religion", though most of the people who follow it tend to be Arab. It's no different then the other religions.

The only reason Christianity isn't an Israeli religion is because they spent their whole existence trying to convert everyone else. Maybe Muslims just weren't as good at shoving their beliefs down the throat of everyone they came across.
 

morbidenigma

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Re: is Islam an Arab Religion ?
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2011, 02:39:34 PM »
^^ lol are u serious, Islam spread over a 1000 mile radius within the space of 100 years through offensive tyrannical warfare