Author Topic: Some weird shit yall, whats goin on  (Read 579 times)

Ant

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Re:Some weird shit yall, whats goin on
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2003, 01:53:24 AM »
can you prove your own free agency?
 

Trauma-san

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Re:Some weird shit yall, whats goin on
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2003, 01:58:20 AM »
It's really a non-issue to me, LOL.  Figure it out for yourself, i'm not all caught up in evaluating whether or not god lied to me, lol.  
 

Ant

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Re:Some weird shit yall, whats goin on
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2003, 05:07:23 AM »
It's not a lie is a misconception.

This arguement isn't going to be won. But for those interested in it., I'll add a final explanation of Free Agency.

The question of free agency is different than the question of free will, but it is dependent on the existence of free will.  Free agency cannot exist without free will, in order to prove free agency you must prove free will and vice versa.  

Before philosophers began questioning the freedom to will they questioned whats know as "liberum arbitrium" or the freedom to choose.   This is what Trauma refers to as free agency.  

It is obvious that we are free in most cases we are free to make our own decisions.  No one is deciding for us, as trauma said.  In this sense we are free to choose, but are we free to will what we choose?

Unless you have the free will to will what you choose, you don't have the freedom to choose.  You would only have to freedom to ACT on your choice.  

That is why the mention of free agency gets reverted back to an arguement for free will.  Without the freedom to will your choices your choices aren't free.  You can't simply sidestep free will and declare free agency.  

The misconception is:

"I am free I can DO as I will"  

The question should be:

Can you also will what you will to will?  Or choose what you will to choose?


As a hint when considering this idea, you should consider what circumstances would allow a person to will what he wills.  
« Last Edit: January 17, 2003, 05:10:30 AM by Ant »