We Should Cut Special Education

[Russell Bell]

Everyone knows that education is getting fucked in this economy, meaning bigger classes, teachers getting laid off, teachers can't find jobs, etc.  No news here. 

Special education compared to other "regular" education is fucking expensive.  For example, here in california, 1 autistic kid costs about 45k a yr (source a local newspaper). 

Now Im not saying cut EVERYTHING, i'm just saying this:  let the schools make reasonable decisions, ditch the federal laws that require all special ed kids to be mainstreamed (if the parents choose) into regular classes (which ends up bad for kids who dont get proper education and bad for teachers who arent equipped to deal with the special ed kid), and end this idea that every special ed kid needs to be educated; meaning the classes that essentially serve as day care centers for kids who literally cant talk and cant do anything shouldnt be at a public school (a LEARNING institution) - this would primarily apply to severly handicapped that will never be able to do anything on their own anyway and not the slightly slow kid who will at least end up working at the neighborhood pizza hut.

I realize this will not happen, but if people were serious about reform and improving our education system and budget, etc, this would be a talking point.

Sounds harsh, yes.  But to me, this is common sense.  So, am I a heartless bastard or do I have a point here?

[virtuoso]

The finnish model is perhaps a good one to follow no? This is more in respect of broadly improving education.

Essentially the finnish model is shorter school hours
only those with a masters degree can teach
The most able are put in with the least able so it provides the opportunity for mentoring towards their peers

However being home schooled is probably the best option but how many can really afford that.

[Russell Bell]

The finnish model is perhaps a good one to follow no? This is more in respect of broadly improving education.

Essentially the finnish model is shorter school hours
only those with a masters degree can teach
The most able are put in with the least able so it provides the opportunity for mentoring towards their peers

However being home schooled is probably the best option but how many can really afford that.

I see your point.

But I dont know, and i doubt seriously, what the real strength of correlation is between more years of school and actual teacher/student success.  In my experience, the parents are the biggest factor in this process, which means that if there are things like crime, drugs, poverty (which happen to be prevalent in california in areas where the test scores are low) the students either arent properly guided at home or have such bad home lives that their success is basically impossible. 

Sure there are shitty teachers, but students failing are still STUDENTS failing, which like i said, a lot of the time theres a shitty parent in the background somewhere.

Also, the Finns dont have to worry about students whos parents dont attempt to learn their language and dont reinforce their kids to do so, HUUUUGE roadblock. 

I was speaking to the special ed thing more financially and to me, not everyone is cut out to be a special ed teacher so mainstreaming these kids, regardless of more teacher training, is a bad idea a lot of the time.  But of course, since we are America, we have to be "fair", which really ironically ends up making things unfair.

[virtuoso]

I don't mean to be patronising, but you are being suckered into the game, first they inflate, then they deflate, then they inflate, maybe causing hyper inflation and instead of cutting out the route of the problem, we ask whose throat should I slit?
Should I slit the throat of the mum on welfare?
Should I slit the throat of the unemployed?
Should we have a minimum wage?

It goes on and on on, yet meanwhile a few are sitting pretty, and consolidating their power, watching one turn on another and incrementally lowering their living standards and so the wealth transfer creates an even wider disparity.

[Russell Bell]

I don't mean to be patronising, but you are being suckered into the game, first they inflate, then they deflate, then they inflate, maybe causing hyper inflation and instead of cutting out the route of the problem, we ask whose throat should I slit?
Should I slit the throat of the mum on welfare?
Should I slit the throat of the unemployed?
Should we have a minimum wage?

It goes on and on on, yet meanwhile a few are sitting pretty, and consolidating their power, watching one turn on another and incrementally lowering their living standards and so the wealth transfer creates an even wider disparity.

Actually, the ones who get lower living standards are everyone else as the wagon of those who need this and that gets more full.  The small percentage of those who need expensive extras is getting bigger, and the majority suffers.  All I'm saying is we need to re-evaluate how we do special ed, i mean the kids who are never going to do anything and cant do anything, i feel sorry for them but public schools cant afford them!  Why are kids who will never be productive in the least ever being rolled (lol, bad taste) to these schools like its some fucking convalescent home?  This isnt some generalized abstract bullshit and its not pulling some mom who needs welfare off of it, its the truth and its quite specific.

And if you think this is a deteriorating process which has been slowly eroding at our society, its not.  Our care "net" is cast out wider than  it ever was, which is the fucking problem.  ADD and autism are new, not old.  And the ones sitting pretty are no one in this situation, cause normal kids get fucked w bigger classes and overworked teachers, unemployed teachers cant get work, and the special ed kids who cant wipe their own ass still cant wipe their own ass at the end of a costly (to the taxpayers) day.  So you tell me who stands to benefit from my plan?  The small minority pulling strings from behind a curtain or regular folks like me and you, who dont have a voice because they arent "different" enough?

[OG Hack Wilson]

Everyone knows that education is getting fucked in this economy, meaning bigger classes, teachers getting laid off, teachers can't find jobs, etc.  No news here. 

Special education compared to other "regular" education is fucking expensive.  For example, here in california, 1 autistic kid costs about 45k a yr (source a local newspaper). 

Now Im not saying cut EVERYTHING, i'm just saying this:  let the schools make reasonable decisions, ditch the federal laws that require all special ed kids to be mainstreamed (if the parents choose) into regular classes (which ends up bad for kids who dont get proper education and bad for teachers who arent equipped to deal with the special ed kid), and end this idea that every special ed kid needs to be educated; meaning the classes that essentially serve as day care centers for kids who literally cant talk and cant do anything shouldnt be at a public school (a LEARNING institution) - this would primarily apply to severly handicapped that will never be able to do anything on their own anyway and not the slightly slow kid who will at least end up working at the neighborhood pizza hut.

I realize this will not happen, but if people were serious about reform and improving our education system and budget, etc, this would be a talking point.

Sounds harsh, yes.  But to me, this is common sense.  So, am I a heartless bastard or do I have a point here?

i want you to run American schools from here out

[Sami]

This is  a very bad idea. I was mainstreamed because I was born with a disability and the mainstream classes were so much better than the special ed ones and your attitude is essentially kill the disabled or stick us in nursing homes, even though years of research shows it;s cheaper for the government the disabled to live in apartments on their own with a caregiver instead of
a nursing home.

It's also kind of personal because I'm trying to find housing and I can't afford it because I'm still getting my college education, so I went to apply for Section 8 housing and in Long Beach it's been closed for applications since 2003. That's 8 years.

This myth of Golden Ticket Welfare is a myth.

[Ghost Drebin]

Without special education, Radiotube would forget to breathe.

[Russell Bell]

This is  a very bad idea. I was mainstreamed because I was born with a disability and the mainstream classes were so much better than the special ed ones and your attitude is essentially kill the disabled or stick us in nursing homes, even though years of research shows it;s cheaper for the government the disabled to live in apartments on their own with a caregiver instead of
a nursing home.

It's also kind of personal because I'm trying to find housing and I can't afford it because I'm still getting my college education, so I went to apply for Section 8 housing and in Long Beach it's been closed for applications since 2003. That's 8 years.

This myth of Golden Ticket Welfare is a myth.

You seem to be more on the functional side and not who i was talking about, and lol at u thinking i meant stick everyone in a nursing home or kill u.

This black and white view is the problem with education, all or nothing huh?

Well, our system will continue to go broke.

Im talking mostly severely handicapped, the ones who cant function and end up occupying a wing of the school that essentially is a nursing home.  Im also saying that schools should be able to make decisions, instead of federal mainstreaming laws which hurt the students and teachers and special ed kid him/herself.  What the fuck does some supreme court judge know about education that a principal/teacher doesnt?  Again, decision making at the school level, where the principal/whoever can make an educated conclusion is better than some law designed to force equality, cause that in reality never works.

And why do you think stuff like section 8 closes, cause everyone uses it responsibly?  Nah, probably not.  Same principal as the special ed, you take the decision making away from people and you get a flawed system (although i know way less about this than i do education which i actually work in).

Whats this disability u had/have?

[Sami]

I have Cerebral Palsy and I'm in a chair.

You know how education could save money? Stop buying private textbooks, and stop having local school boards and bullshit that adds extra bureaucracy.

The State of California could have different universities create standard textbooks themselves not just for colleges but lower grades as well, because McGraw Hill already pays public universities to write the books and then turns around and charges huge amounts off the top, and because there are different books and they change from place to place the quality of education varies.

I noticed that growing up. Shitty areas I lived in had cheap, shitty books and the rich areas were hyper-rigorous so it was hard for me to jump right in when ever I moved. If the whole state used the same curriculum and books, it'd be much more uniform and higher quality as well as cutting out the textbook companies.

You know how else we save money? End the goddamn war.

You know what else, if I were governor I'd refuse to open any more collectives and instead the state would open weed stores of it's own the way Canada has govt-owned liquor stores.The profits could be funneled to health care and education and drug rehab.

Empty the prisons of weedheads and impose death sentences on rapists, pedos and murderers, with limited appeals and bring back firing squads instead of that lethal injection bullshit.

Abolish property taxes on where people live and raise them on "extra" houses to punish the banks for keeping houses empty.

I have more. There are so many things we could do.

[OG Hack Wilson]

Without special education, Radiotube would forget to breathe.

+1

[OG Hack Wilson]

I have Cerebral Palsy and I'm in a chair.

You know how education could save money? Stop buying private textbooks, and stop having local school boards and bullshit that adds extra bureaucracy.

The State of California could have different universities create standard textbooks themselves not just for colleges but lower grades as well, because McGraw Hill already pays public universities to write the books and then turns around and charges huge amounts off the top, and because there are different books and they change from place to place the quality of education varies.

I noticed that growing up. Shitty areas I lived in had cheap, shitty books and the rich areas were hyper-rigorous so it was hard for me to jump right in when ever I moved. If the whole state used the same curriculum and books, it'd be much more uniform and higher quality as well as cutting out the textbook companies.

You know how else we save money? End the goddamn war.

You know what else, if I were governor I'd refuse to open any more collectives and instead the state would open weed stores of it's own the way Canada has govt-owned liquor stores.The profits could be funneled to health care and education and drug rehab.

Empty the prisons of weedheads and impose death sentences on rapists, pedos and murderers, with limited appeals and bring back firing squads instead of that lethal injection bullshit.

Abolish property taxes on where people live and raise them on "extra" houses to punish the banks for keeping houses empty.

I have more. There are so many things we could do.

props on your post

[Sami]

You're welcome.

It's mostly just common sense. Education is still in the 19th century, and it needs changes but it should always be public for everyone because a democratic society needs people to read, write and think. If we lose that, our Republic doesn't exist.

[Russell Bell]

I have Cerebral Palsy and I'm in a chair.

You know how education could save money? Stop buying private textbooks, and stop having local school boards and bullshit that adds extra bureaucracy.

The State of California could have different universities create standard textbooks themselves not just for colleges but lower grades as well, because McGraw Hill already pays public universities to write the books and then turns around and charges huge amounts off the top, and because there are different books and they change from place to place the quality of education varies.

I noticed that growing up. Shitty areas I lived in had cheap, shitty books and the rich areas were hyper-rigorous so it was hard for me to jump right in when ever I moved. If the whole state used the same curriculum and books, it'd be much more uniform and higher quality as well as cutting out the textbook companies.

You know how else we save money? End the goddamn war.

You know what else, if I were governor I'd refuse to open any more collectives and instead the state would open weed stores of it's own the way Canada has govt-owned liquor stores.The profits could be funneled to health care and education and drug rehab.

Empty the prisons of weedheads and impose death sentences on rapists, pedos and murderers, with limited appeals and bring back firing squads instead of that lethal injection bullshit.

Abolish property taxes on where people live and raise them on "extra" houses to punish the banks for keeping houses empty.

I have more. There are so many things we could do.

We have different views on specifics of special ed, but i agree w most of this post.

Wars/putting drug abusers in jail is costing our state/country dearly, and the textbook industry is a sham. 

The extra bureaucracy part i agree with too, but wouldnt you rather have local control over a federal dept of ed?  Local is always better than far away federal.

[Sami]

Agreed. Federal control isn't adding anything, it's only destabilizing things in states where things are already bad cause President Obama only supports testing, testing, testing and private schools.

Education ought to be controlled entirely by the states, except the Feds should intervene IMO when things are blatantly out-of-control, like in Texas where they've stopped teaching Thomas Jefferson because he was an avid supporter of church-state separation. Shit like that is immoral, cause the Texans are manipulating history for political purposes.