We Should Cut Special Education

[virtuoso]

I don't mean to be patronising, but you are being suckered into the game, first they inflate, then they deflate, then they inflate, maybe causing hyper inflation and instead of cutting out the route of the problem, we ask whose throat should I slit?
Should I slit the throat of the mum on welfare?
Should I slit the throat of the unemployed?
Should we have a minimum wage?

It goes on and on on, yet meanwhile a few are sitting pretty, and consolidating their power, watching one turn on another and incrementally lowering their living standards and so the wealth transfer creates an even wider disparity.

Actually, the ones who get lower living standards are everyone else as the wagon of those who need this and that gets more full.  The small percentage of those who need expensive extras is getting bigger, and the majority suffers.  All I'm saying is we need to re-evaluate how we do special ed, i mean the kids who are never going to do anything and cant do anything, i feel sorry for them but public schools cant afford them!  Why are kids who will never be productive in the least ever being rolled (lol, bad taste) to these schools like its some fucking convalescent home?  This isnt some generalized abstract bullshit and its not pulling some mom who needs welfare off of it, its the truth and its quite specific.

And if you think this is a deteriorating process which has been slowly eroding at our society, its not.  Our care "net" is cast out wider than  it ever was, which is the fucking problem.  ADD and autism are new, not old.  And the ones sitting pretty are no one in this situation, cause normal kids get fucked w bigger classes and overworked teachers, unemployed teachers cant get work, and the special ed kids who cant wipe their own ass still cant wipe their own ass at the end of a costly (to the taxpayers) day.  So you tell me who stands to benefit from my plan?  The small minority pulling strings from behind a curtain or regular folks like me and you, who dont have a voice because they arent "different" enough?

I don't understand your rebuttal, the reason why the world is up shits creek is due to the expansion of debt, due to the fact that this expansion was being avoided by the richest through their bullshit tax havens, or the bullshit taxes applied to wall street etc.
It's theft on an unimaginable scale and on top of which is the offshoring of millions upon millions of jobs. Or the 2 trillion, 3 trillion, etc stolen by from the pentagon budget. The corruption is so common, so inherent, that it's become a cultural aspect of business and government alike. I do agree however that the state should be the ones to deem what is and isn't acceptable to be spending money on.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

You know how else we save money? End the goddamn war.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

also just want to point out that executions cost more than putting someone away for life.

[Sami]

That's true, but mostly it's because appeals are far too long and generous if I recall correctly.

But even so, you have a point. No executions till we eliminate the deficit, then kill em all.

If it were up to me, people in those cases would get 3 appeals, with the state hiring them the best private attorneys available and that would be it.

You know something? If it were up to me I'd set up a massive program to upgrade internet lines throughout CA. We need more porn, faster!

America is now 18th in the world in internet speed. Romania is 4th. That's shameful.

Hiring millions of people to upgrade phone, internet, water and sewer lines would improve the quality and create economic activity while improving the business climate.

[Russell Bell]

I don't mean to be patronising, but you are being suckered into the game, first they inflate, then they deflate, then they inflate, maybe causing hyper inflation and instead of cutting out the route of the problem, we ask whose throat should I slit?
Should I slit the throat of the mum on welfare?
Should I slit the throat of the unemployed?
Should we have a minimum wage?

It goes on and on on, yet meanwhile a few are sitting pretty, and consolidating their power, watching one turn on another and incrementally lowering their living standards and so the wealth transfer creates an even wider disparity.

Actually, the ones who get lower living standards are everyone else as the wagon of those who need this and that gets more full.  The small percentage of those who need expensive extras is getting bigger, and the majority suffers.  All I'm saying is we need to re-evaluate how we do special ed, i mean the kids who are never going to do anything and cant do anything, i feel sorry for them but public schools cant afford them!  Why are kids who will never be productive in the least ever being rolled (lol, bad taste) to these schools like its some fucking convalescent home?  This isnt some generalized abstract bullshit and its not pulling some mom who needs welfare off of it, its the truth and its quite specific.

And if you think this is a deteriorating process which has been slowly eroding at our society, its not.  Our care "net" is cast out wider than  it ever was, which is the fucking problem.  ADD and autism are new, not old.  And the ones sitting pretty are no one in this situation, cause normal kids get fucked w bigger classes and overworked teachers, unemployed teachers cant get work, and the special ed kids who cant wipe their own ass still cant wipe their own ass at the end of a costly (to the taxpayers) day.  So you tell me who stands to benefit from my plan?  The small minority pulling strings from behind a curtain or regular folks like me and you, who dont have a voice because they arent "different" enough?

I don't understand your rebuttal, the reason why the world is up shits creek is due to the expansion of debt, due to the fact that this expansion was being avoided by the richest through their bullshit tax havens, or the bullshit taxes applied to wall street etc.
It's theft on an unimaginable scale and on top of which is the offshoring of millions upon millions of jobs. Or the 2 trillion, 3 trillion, etc stolen by from the pentagon budget. The corruption is so common, so inherent, that it's become a cultural aspect of business and government alike. I do agree however that the state should be the ones to deem what is and isn't acceptable to be spending money on.

Well, probably because you are arguing something that has nothing to do with the SPECIFIC topic we are discussing.  My rebuttal applied to the small part of your post that applied here, which is a very specific debate on how to control education spending and how to route the money.  Yes you can argue about tax code, out of control defense spending, jobs being shipped off, but we're kinda talking about special education, who's eligible, and how big the program should be.  See?

[Sami]

Well, probably because you are arguing something that has nothing to do with the SPECIFIC topic we are discussing.  My rebuttal applied to the small part of your post that applied here, which is a very specific debate on how to control education spending and how to route the money.  Yes you can argue about tax code, out of control defense spending, jobs being shipped off, but we're kinda talking about special education, who's eligible, and how big the program should be.  See?

All these issues are inter-related, you can't deny that.

Bad economy = lower revenue

Lower revenue = higher deficit

Lower revenue + tax cuts = even lower revenue

Even lower revenue = higher deficit

Higher deficit = higher interest

Lower revenue + higher interest + more tax cuts = even lower revenue

Even lower revenue + severe spending cuts = worse economy

Worse economy = Even lower revenue

It's a repeating cycle.

[Russell Bell]

Well, probably because you are arguing something that has nothing to do with the SPECIFIC topic we are discussing.  My rebuttal applied to the small part of your post that applied here, which is a very specific debate on how to control education spending and how to route the money.  Yes you can argue about tax code, out of control defense spending, jobs being shipped off, but we're kinda talking about special education, who's eligible, and how big the program should be.  See?

All these issues are inter-related, you can't deny that.

Bad economy = lower revenue

Lower revenue = higher deficit

Lower revenue + tax cuts = even lower revenue

Even lower revenue = higher deficit

Higher deficit = higher interest

Lower revenue + higher interest + more tax cuts = even lower revenue

Even lower revenue + severe spending cuts = worse economy

Worse economy = Even lower revenue

It's a repeating cycle.

Yea sure, but im talking fundamental policy change to save and divert $ from the piece of the pie that WE ALREADY HAVE funneled towards education, not how to make that piece bigger or "why is that piece small oh its cause the guys behind the curtains fucking people over etc".  And im specifically talking policy, whereas he wasnt really refuting or agreeing to much of what i said, just making broad arguments about taking mothers off welfare which is not what we're discussing, at least i thought.

[virtuoso]

You can't just look at this topic without encompassing the bigger issues. It seems like you are advocating some kind of rationing of education for those in the most need of it. The cause of this mindset is the great robbery of the last 100 years.

[Sikotic™]

Fuck that.

Look y'all. Education is not expensive. For what you get out of it, the cost pales in comparison tot he benefits.

Just in California, they cut education funds by 25%. A quarter of what they had is now gone and they were struggling from previous cutbacks. Trillions of dollars is being invested willingly into the US's foreign conquests, but they don't wanna provide the bare minimum in funding that would provide all of their citizens with a quality education. The illiteracy rate in Detroit is 47% right now. Does any of this make sense to anybody?

They want you to be stupid, and we're getting fucked in the ass willingly. And its working.

[Sami]

Thank you SIK, I was having trouble wording that point.

Education and literacy are the foundation of a free society. How can people enforce their rights if they can't read the laws and understand the context of why and how they exist?

[Russell Bell]

Fuck that.

Look y'all. Education is not expensive. For what you get out of it, the cost pales in comparison tot he benefits.

Just in California, they cut education funds by 25%. A quarter of what they had is now gone and they were struggling from previous cutbacks. Trillions of dollars is being invested willingly into the US's foreign conquests, but they don't wanna provide the bare minimum in funding that would provide all of their citizens with a quality education. The illiteracy rate in Detroit is 47% right now. Does any of this make sense to anybody?

They want you to be stupid, and we're getting fucked in the ass willingly. And its working.

It is working, but not from the perspective you think.

Our foreign conquests are bullshit, you'll never hear me say otherwise.  I think, no scratch that shit, I know, that we dump ridiculous (not good enough word to describe) amounts of money into wars, "defense", and putting drug users in prisons for years upon years/striking out 2 time felons for fucking getting high all in the name of freedom and law & order.  Hypocrisy at its finest.  Many people understand this.  Unfortunately, the middle america soccer mom bitch with nothing to gain from any of these black hole money policies will support that shit to the fullest (not just soccer moms or middle america, just the first thing that popped into my head).

So what are we left with?  An education system that props up everyone and helps very few, even those who will NEVER vote or contribute to our society because they, like I said before, are unable to do so.  Im not talking functionally handicapped, im not talking a little slow, im talking about the kids who have to get baths at the schools.  Im talking the kids who cant talk, dont know their name, will never be able to write a fucking sentence let alone check a box on a ballot box, or hell, even go to the fucking grocery store pick something out and buy it.  There is a place for them, its just NOT at our overstretched overworked and generally fucked over public school system.  Characterizing that reality as taking away education from the masses of Detroit is not a fair assessment of anything Ive advocated. 

The fact that we as educators have the biggest cut of $ and still cant churn out competent citizens at a high enough rate tells us that this system is broken, and making better use of the money we have has to be a priority (yes, it sucks that the money gets diverted for retarded - pardon the use of that term - purposes).  Its just the reality of the system we live in.  Untill people start looking outside of the normal dems and republicans this aint changing, and i dont see that happening.  I dont like it, but what are we going to do, expand programs or cut programs that dont help the students/society?  Again, these kids need to be routed in a different way (privately owned centers?), and I dont have that answer, Im just looking at this from the perspective of the public school system which is failing kids who could be productive but arent being given every possible resource because of politics (people hear "cut special ed" and they wrongly think "masses will be uneducated").

Yeah that was long, sorry, this issue is a personal one.

[Sami]

Every citizen is entitled to education in some way, if someone is truly completely incapable of being educated there are already procedures in place to exempt them, and even those are often abused to save money.

I lived in a disabled group home for a while in 1999-2000 and the local school district was trying to get out of educating this girl who lived there by saying she was comatose, even though she was smart because she was deaf and mute and they were cheap/lazy. She was supposed to be in 8th grade at the time but because they wasted so much time suing to stop it she got held back in the 5th grade.

If it went you're way, that will happen a lot more often.

[Russell Bell]

Every citizen is entitled to education in some way, if someone is truly completely incapable of being educated there are already procedures in place to exempt them, and even those are often abused to save money.

I lived in a disabled group home for a while in 1999-2000 and the local school district was trying to get out of educating this girl who lived there by saying she was comatose, even though she was smart because she was deaf and mute and they were cheap/lazy. She was supposed to be in 8th grade at the time but because they wasted so much time suing to stop it she got held back in the 5th grade.

If it went you're way, that will happen a lot more often.

Lemme say this first:  I see your point about kids falling thru the cracks.  I know, as ive stated, i work in education and it is heartbreaking to see some of these special needs kids and what they go thru.  I also get how we as a country have our priorities fucked up, I am not some dumbass with the wool pulled over my eyes who thinks that people arent benefiting from this whole system while others suffer; quite opposite actually, i despise a lot of these mainstream politicians and think most are self serving liars.

Those exact reasons are why i think that the public school system does not serve some of them well, and trying to do so hurts everyone.  Is the answer somewhere else?  Probably imo.  Special learning centers are an option...for example kids with autism around here have SEVERAL places which are privately owned and work with these kids daily and are affordable, my area has one of the highest rates of autism so people are doing their best to help.

That being said, im going to go get drunk.

[Sami]

But then, that's more expensive because of profit taking and often times more fraudulent, like even that group home was private and the lady who ran it was a cheap-ass bitch who made it look like she cared whenever there was money on the line, but she hired untrained illegals to take care of the people instead of qualified nurses so she could profit.

[Russell Bell]

But then, that's more expensive because of profit taking and often times more fraudulent, like even that group home was private and the lady who ran it was a cheap-ass bitch who made it look like she cared whenever there was money on the line, but she hired untrained illegals to take care of the people instead of qualified nurses so she could profit.

Sounds fucked up.

How "privatized" was this lady's operation?