Author Topic: Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)  (Read 375 times)

Ant

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2003, 08:35:29 AM »
Ok here is why I think marijuana shouldn't be legalized.

As a member of society who fully recognizes hiw own falliability I am grateful I was never exposed to weed until later in my life (18-19) years old.  I also realize that had I tried it at a previous time in my life I may have enjoyed it and used it more frequently.  Humans are not perfect and everyone should be safe from potential dangers.  Yes alcohol, and cigarettes are also potential dangers.  I am completely for campaigns that discourage alcohol and cigarette usage, especially for a younger crowd.  Why?  Because a child is not of the mind to make proper choices.  To a person that believes otherwise I can never prove the validity of this statement, except to say that if you believe a child can make choices as well as an adult your mind has not progressed much passed childhood.  There is a difference between wisdom and knowledge.  A child is not wise enough to make many decisions in regards to alcohol, cigarettes, weed, sex, and other self destructive activity.  Possessing the knowledge to do good in school, in your job etc. is different than possessing wisdom to make good decisions on all things.

Majijuana smoking comes under what I'll refer to as self-destructive behavior.  I say this for two reasons: 1) it wastes time which I find to be of value 2) it impairs thought processes temporarily and permanently depending on the degree of usage.  Temporarily pot will impair thought processes while your high and make your thinking cloudy for perhaps a few days later.  Any pot user can attest to this.  Pot users say that pot actually improves thinking at times.  Yes it improves a certain type of thinking, namely creative thinking (perhaps), but definitely impairs "rational thought."  

Creativity is useful, enjoyable, interesting.  If that is the life you desire to lead, perhaps pot will aid you.  When I stated that pot and successful living do not go hand in hand some of you took offense stating your own sucess in life.   The term success is relative to each person's believe on what success is.  For me a successful life is one in which all aspects of my life were a success to the greatest degree possible.  All aspects of my life include: my education, relationships, my choice of friends, my career, my eventual family, child raising, old age.  To successfully and enjoyable live your life by my standards you must enjoy it the whole way through.  The idea of enjoy your youth is silly because it is saying that old age isn't gonna bother you if it sucks.  It is, and anyone that thinks for a second realizes that the past however glorious ends when the present arrives.  To an extent the better your youth the more depressing your adulthood.

I mention all this because I believe that marijuana use severely impairs your ability to live successfully throughout your life and to be a success in all endevaours.  It will not help you raise children, it will most likely not help your education, it will most likely not help your career, and so on.  It is self-destructive because it represents wasted time and, while its effects probably aren't severe, it does affect your thought processes permanently a bit.  The more time one spends doing relatively useless activity during their youth the more they have to learn later on to be successful in adulthood.  Beneficial activity, one performed, is cool in that it benefits you throughout your whole life.  Once you read that knowledge is there to help you in many future decisions, gaining a new talent or ability can be used throughout the rest of your life.  Smoking weed does not help you gain any such abilities.

Pot users often cite the accomplishments of people they know as using pot and being successful.  Most of these success stories are in reference to career success.  But career success is only one form of success.  The ideal success and the more general definition I can provide is that success is a precise combination of knowledge and ability.  The most successful person has the knowledge and ability to live life however he pleases and to be successful in all his endeavours.  This is different than being successful in your job.  The successful life is one where you choose what you do without any contigent factors influencing your decision and you do what you do well.  That is my idea of a successful person.
 
Most people will never achieve this level of success.  I may never achieve this level of success.  However, many people decrease their potential by smoking weed, getting drunk frequently, eating unhealily, wasting time playing video games all day, and etc.  I am grateful that pot is not available legally.  Those of us who don't use it should feel likewise.  Those of us who do, will probably never know what I am talking about.
 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2003, 08:46:07 AM by Ant »
 

CharlieBrown

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2003, 09:54:03 AM »
The quote i gave earlier is from the documentary 'Grass' as Smooth said. It's quite an interesting doc (not just if you're a stoner).
Ant you say those of you who don't smoke dope should think the same as you, but i know many people (and there are many more in the UK as a whole) who think that Marijuana should be legalised. I believe it should be legalised as it does not damage others in society (unless you're driven under the influence and have an accident, which i don't approve of and is the same as alcohol) and i think it should be personal choice whether you take it or not. I do think people need to be educated on drugs in an unbiased way (i.e. not like drugs education in US schools - and for those who cuss me out for not knowing anything about education over there i have lived in the US for some of my life, this isn't what i heard of a mate or read somewhere)
I also think it should be legalised over here (UK) as the reasons behind it being prohibited are racist (and now is against what the majority of the population want).
Charlie, lost his life right in front of the party...
 

budsmokeronly

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2003, 11:59:25 AM »
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Man, you got it rough.  I guess there's nobody to blame but yourself.


P.S., grow some balls.  If you are arguing something with somebody, dont' just give up.  That's just being a pussy.  


Actually the only thing I can blame is the weed and the terrorists that I purchased it from.  I didn't know at the time that I was really supporting terrorists when I bought sacks, but thanks to our flawless government and their commercials now I know.  I actually have grown balls but I lost them due to all the weed that I smoked, just like 2Pac.  I had to give up in the argument against u.  I have finally learned that u r the most knowledgeable person in the world.  After all my years of weed smoking there is no possible way that my intelligence could ever match yours.  Especially with the amazing facts and statistics that you get off the internet, because we all know that everything on the internet is 100% reliable and correct, and not once in the history of mankind has there ever been a mistake made in a scientific study.  And even if you didn't give me those amazingly realistic facts and statistics I still could never match you in an argument.  You are always right, because you are the smartest person to ever walk this earth.  If Trauma says the sun rises in the west and sets in the east-THEN GODDAMNIT THAT IS HOW IT IS.  And you did get best poster on here too, which also gives you 100% credability.  Did you get the best poster for a west coast forum because of your amazing knowledge westcoast rap, and all the information you post about it?  I know for a fact you have a much more extensive knowledge of rap then people like SGV, GT, Nima, Axel, Funkadelic, Lil J, Gfunka, myself, and everyone else who considers themselves to have some knowledge.  Keep fighting the cause to never legalize weed.  Pot will ruin your life.  Fuck drugs and alcohol- they will kill you.  And remember- if you buy drugs or drive SUV's then you are supporting terrorists.
 

Woodrow

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2003, 12:34:45 PM »
I started smoking weed when I was 13 years old and did it on a fairly regular basis until I was 18. I'm 21 now and haven't touched it since I was 18.

*THIS IS MY PRESONAL OPINION*
I don't mind the effects of marijuana, but I feel that I'm a better person when I'm not smoking. I find it much easier to remember appointments, be productive, and live my life to its full potential. It's not to say that I wasn't a productive member of society when I was smoking, but rather I wasn't living up to my full potential. As I got my priorities straight, and made a decision what I wanted to do with my life, I found that I had no need for marijuana. I enjoyed smoking marijuana, but the effects that it had on me were just something I didn't want to have in my life anymore. Some of my best friends smoke weed daily. I don't mind people that smoke weed. If you can continue to smoke weed and contribute positively to society. Good for you. It’s the people who smoke weed and can’t contribute to society that bother me.

As far as legalization goes, I’m impartial. People who want to smoke will. A law will not stop them. If it does get legalized, I would be willing to bet that it would be HIGHLY regulated and heavily taxed. If marijuana does get legalized I would hope to see smoking weed viewed as a self imposed disability. If you smoke that joint, you won't be able to fly that airplane for a living. If you smoke weed, you won't be able to perform that brain surgery. Etc…
 
 

Murrow

Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2003, 03:46:45 PM »
I smoke...and it don't effect my school work.  I have a A - for a grade point average.  So if anything, it has helped me because these grades are better than the ones I had when I didn't smoke weed.  

Infact, I'm about to smoke now before I go play basketball.

Ant

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2003, 04:34:31 PM »
I started smoking weed when I was 13 years old and did it on a fairly regular basis until I was 18. I'm 21 now and haven't touched it since I was 18.

*THIS IS MY PRESONAL OPINION*
I don't mind the effects of marijuana, but I feel that I'm a better person when I'm not smoking. I find it much easier to remember appointments, be productive, and live my life to its full potential. It's not to say that I wasn't a productive member of society when I was smoking, but rather I wasn't living up to my full potential. As I got my priorities straight, and made a decision what I wanted to do with my life, I found that I had no need for marijuana. I enjoyed smoking marijuana, but the effects that it had on me were just something I didn't want to have in my life anymore. Some of my best friends smoke weed daily. I don't mind people that smoke weed. If you can continue to smoke weed and contribute positively to society. Good for you. It’s the people who smoke weed and can’t contribute to society that bother me.

As far as legalization goes, I’m impartial. People who want to smoke will. A law will not stop them. If it does get legalized, I would be willing to bet that it would be HIGHLY regulated and heavily taxed. If marijuana does get legalized I would hope to see smoking weed viewed as a self imposed disability. If you smoke that joint, you won't be able to fly that airplane for a living. If you smoke weed, you won't be able to perform that brain surgery. Etc…
 

Exactly.  I don't think pot smoking is evil I think its just a loss of potential.  Some of you might not care about that.  But, I appreciate that weed is illegal because although it can still be found the legal reprocussions provided me with a sufficient deterrent from pot use.  It provides the same deterrent for many other members of society.  This I feel is a good thing.  

If weed is legal and available in stores to everyone it is obvious that a substantially larger portion of the population will use the substance and it will be used on a more frequent basis.   More people unknowing of the reprocussions or unsure of the reprocussions associated with weed will smoke it.  Human beings are falliable.  We at times unknowingly make bad decisions.  The legalization of weed will lead to more people unknowingly making the wrong decisions to excessively use a drug which is robbing them of their potential.    The same is true for heavy drinkers, smokers, and obviously other drug abusers.

To say you smoke and you get A's is not sufficient.  To say you smoke and you do good at sports is not sufficient.  Revert to my previous definition of successful living.  If you do not wish to attempt that level of success that is your choice, but you have no right to make that choice for another human being.  You have no right to demand, because you want legal weed, that it is legalized to the detriment of the youth of this country.  

You state that weed is not harming your life.  That your life is fine without weed.  Do you know indefinitely that your life is better because of your habit?  And furthermore, life is not lived only in the PRESENT moment, there is a FUTURE to live forward to.  Can you say with absolute certainty that marijuana use will benefit your life until  and through old age?  That a person who consistently smokes throughout their life will do better than a person who doesn't all other things constant.

Here is the basic test already stated but repeated:

Of two people who are identical except that one smokes and one doesn't, who will live a more successful existence the WHOLE way through?  

I'll elaborate:  Who will have a better family life? who will better raise children? who will have a more successful career? who will achieve more?  who will live happily through old age? who will have a better circle of friends? who will have better relationships with their friends?

Be aware your answer is subjective not definite.  


 

budsmokeronly

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2003, 05:07:46 PM »
man made drugs such as prozack, riddilin, and shit like that are sooooo much better than weed right guys?  I mean since they are made by the government they gotta be good for you, because everything said and done by the government is right.  Or wait, is that everything said and done by Trauma.  Oh damn, now I confused myself.  Dammit, I shouldn't have taken that last bong rip.
 

Quakaveli

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2003, 05:28:02 PM »
Well Ant U have some good poins but everyone doesnt want to live  life perfectly, just to suceed, ppl dont do everything just to help em be successful...U dont try to get laid to be more successfull, U dont party and drink to be successfull...we need sum "fun time" too, and weed isnt too bad for that, if U do it once a month or something like that. I think weed shud be made legal if ur 18, like Netherlands, watch its example...over there legalization REDUCED weed use among minors and especially reduced hard drug use. Come on we all know weed isnt too bad, ya if makes u lazy for a couple days and then ur fine, if U abuse it however, like I have in da past then ull have a few problems. But I think ppl shud be able to make their own decisions we cant control everyone...like Bob Marley said it, "LEGALIIIZE IT!", DONT CRITICIZE IT!!!!
 

budsmokeronly

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2003, 06:27:04 PM »
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Pot users often cite the accomplishments of people they know as using pot and being successful.  Most of these success stories are in reference to career success.  But career success is only one form of success.  The ideal success and the more general definition I can provide is that success is a precise combination of knowledge and ability.  The most successful person has the knowledge and ability to live life however he pleases and to be successful in all his endeavours.  This is different than being successful in your job.  The successful life is one where you choose what you do without any contigent factors influencing your decision and you do what you do well.  That is my idea of a successful person.


Exactly man.  Sucess to many people means happiness.  Pot smokers on avg seem a lot more happy than people who are way anti pot, and act like it will destroy your life.  There are many people who are happy just living a very simple life.  This doesn't exactly apply to myself.  I have very high standards, and a lot of ambition.  IMO, most people that I have met, that are way against weed, and act like it is so bad, and all that crap, are very uptight people, and not that fun to be around.  Now I am not sayin that u MUST  smoke weed in order to be a cool and laid back person.  I know many people who are cool that don't smoke.  I think you missed my whole point in the first place.  I know that weed has some bad effects.  I am not sayin smoking weed will make you a more sucessful person and help you get an excellent job, and help u excel thru school and sports.  I could be wrong, but what I got from your first post, was that weed is this horrible thing that will take you nowhere in life but to a horrible addiction, with no motivation to do anything but get high, and live off of the government.  Now sure some people may turn out like this, but I think weed is not their only problem.  The whole point that I was trying to make is that you can smoke weed and live your life completely fine.  Of course if all you do is smoke weed all day long and that is it, then it is going to ruin your life.  I know a lot of stoners, and honestly, none of them just do that.  I used to smoke all day long, but I could do my daily activities fine while I was high.  I could work, play sports, have conversations, do school work, etc. and so could all of my friends.  Yes I can guarantee that I would have done better in school, or gotten more done, or tried more hobbies if I never smoked.  But I have had a hellova time, and I ain't complaining about it.  I have some great memories from partying/smokin, and I have had some great times, and met a lot of cool people.  It has also helped me see a different side to certain things in life.  As for kids smokin weed, of course I don't think they should do it.  Does that make weed bad?  No.  I don't think kids should listen to gangsta rap music either, or a lot of other things.  My parents didn't give me weed to smoke, and they didn't say it is alright.  If the government legalized weed, I am sure they would have an age limit.  That is all on the parents if kids start smoking weed at a young age.  That is all the parents fault.  But there comes a time in a persons life, where their parents cannot stop them from doing what they want to do.  And I was usuing my personal life as an example, and sayin that if u haven't smoked much then u don't know what it is like, because if u did smoke it a lot u would realize a lot of what is said about weed is just myths, and it really isn't all that bad.  And don't even try and tell me u know how much weed effects a person, because u don't know.  I do know how much it effects me.  I know what it has done.  Anything taken out of moderation can be bad for u.  I can easily get high and drive a car with no problem.  I can easily be high and work many jobs no problem.  I can easily be high and figure out things and think fine.  And you cannot argue that this is not true, because you don't know.  So u anti pot people can keep your views.  Will they effect my life? no.  Do I care that u don't like pot? no.  I just ask this, keep an open mind about things.  How do u like it when people bag on rap and say how it is so horrible and the cause of so many bad things.  Yet look how much of a good influence it has on a lot of people on this forum.
 

Koncept

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2003, 06:40:46 PM »
I just ask this, keep an open mind about things.
 

Ant

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2003, 07:28:24 PM »
A number of things:

1) I don't care if people criticize rap as long as they do so objectively and with an understanding of what they are criticizing.

2) You're choice to smoke or not smoke is not my issue to decide.  I am anti legalization to the extent that legalizing weed would increase usage possibly harming potential youths of society.  Once it is legalized it is "up to the parent, don't blame the weed blame the parent" is basically what you said.   But not every parent is perfect.  Some parents child relationships are poor and parents can't guide their kid to proper action.    

3) Pot smokers do seem happy and i think happiness is the ultimate measure of success. However, the mentally insance are often quite happy go lucky people as well.   Anyways, in regards to pot making you happy, it may make you happy for the PRESENT time as I previously stated.  It will make you happy in your day to day life.  However, it impairs your ability to successfully achieve other endeavors such as marriage, child raising, and a career perhaps.  If as a pot user you wish to engage in these activities then pot has hindered your ability to be happy to the extent it lessened your successfulness.  

4) Moderation I am for.  Pot in moderation is fine.  Legalizing pot will however cause many people to use it in excess.  This is bad.  

finally,

5) I fail to see how the desire to legalize weed is anything but selfish.  Neither you or I are in the position to judge what is best for another person.  I have not told you to change your life, but you are fighting for legislation that if enacted produced consequences in the LIFE of other people.  Consequences that you are not sure of.  You smoke weed, obviously then you already can get weed.  Why do you need it legalize?  It should not be an issue to you.  By fighting for legalized weed you are taking the future of citizens of this country into your hands when you DO NOT know the net outcome.  If weed is to be legalized there is to be consequences, perhaps good and perhaps bad.  If those consequences are bad, are you and the rest of those fighting for its legislation willingly to bear the responsibility for them?  That question actually is not a sensible one, because there is no way for you or any group of people to repay such a debt to another person.





« Last Edit: January 16, 2003, 07:29:02 PM by Ant »
 

budsmokeronly

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2003, 07:48:24 PM »
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5) I fail to see how the desire to legalize weed is anything but selfish.  Neither you or I are in the position to judge what is best for another person.  I have not told you to change your life, but you are fighting for legislation that if enacted produced consequences in the LIFE of other people.  Consequences that you are not sure of.  You smoke weed, obviously then you already can get weed.  Why do you need it legalize?  It should not be an issue to you.  By fighting for legalized weed you are taking the future of citizens of this country into your hands when you DO NOT know the net outcome.  If weed is to be legalized there is to be consequences, perhaps good and perhaps bad.  If those consequences are bad, are you and the rest of those fighting for its legislation willingly to bear the responsibility for them?  That question actually is not a sensible one, because there is no way for you or any group of people to repay such a debt to another person.



I have not once stated that I want weed to be legalized.  I could care less.  I can get it anytime anywhere regardless, and it being illegal has never stopped me from smoking it.  And there are some good things that could come out of the legalization of weed.

1)  People who do have problems with it, will be more open to get help, or seek counseling.

2)  It may cut down on the alcohol usage in our country.  Much violence occurs due to alcohol, and think about how many drunk driving accidents and deaths there are.  I know u r gonna say "well weed impairs your driving ability."  for some people it does, most I know it doesn't.  And it sure is safer to drive under the influence of weed, rather than alcohol.  Then u can have the argument "well people shouldn't be driving under the influence of anything at all."  Reality is that people do, lots of people.

3)  There are patients who have headaches, insomnia, or no appetite.  To some of these patients, nothing has been able to help there problems except for weed.

4)  Most people who wanna smoke weed are going to do it, regardless of whether it is legal or not.  Why spend so much money, effort, resources, policemen, judges, courts, jails, etc. fighting a lost cause.  There are near a million of arrests and citations each year in america regarding weed.  The numbers keep going up each year.  Obviously the arrests are not helping the problem.

5)  Hemp.  Hemp is a very efficient product.  Much better than cotton.  A great resource with many uses.

6) If weed gets legalized, I would bet anything on it, that there will not be much more users than there already is.  You know as well as I know, weed is very easy to come by.  Just because it becomes legalized doesn't mean that everyone who is against it now, is gonna jump on the bandwagon because now they are allowed to smoke it.  I am allowed to smoke cigaretts, yet I have never had any desire.  In fact having weed legalized, may cut down the amount of users, because quite a few people get into weed as a form of rebellion.

7)  Think about the amount of crimes due to weed being illegal.  All the sellers of it, and the shit they do.  The border crossings, the corrupt police and judges, the robberies, etc.  If weed became legal the percentages of these crimes happening would all drop tremendously.

8)  Who do u think is more dangerous and unbeneficial to society: a group of stoners, or a group of alcoholics?
 

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2003, 09:35:22 PM »
I agree with Ant's first long post about it.  The rest of it is way to boring for me to even read, since I could care less about pot and the people that want to throw their lives away getting high all day.  "Peace~"
 

Quakaveli

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2003, 12:44:40 AM »
Aiight Id like to share my personal story with weed. I started when i was a senior, about 16 years old, and my first "real" high was January 2002. Since then Ive been smoking weed here and there. When I started the first few months it was hard to come by so I didnt smoke too much. By see when I started smoking weed, I was going thru a weight increase diet or was trying to...but the damnthing was I used to have NO FUCKING appetite then. Like I would HARDLY EVER get hungry...weed helped me with that and now I have a normal appetite, jumpstarted by da ganja and weight lifting also helps. Now I am average body structure and not a skinny ass twig as I used to be. So thats my story. Also in the summer after senior year, I went to India and look man yall would know back then I really loved weed, like I wanted to be the biggest pothead alive and shit, cuz I never ever did it much...so anyway in this summer I smoked like daily cuz weed was everywhere for free,....shit was fun life was real laid back and I was the most carefree guy ever...and I smoked by myself too cuz my cuzins in India were yunger and didnt smoke. bbut anyway at the end of the summer my hole family found out I smoked and I got a lotta shit for it (Karma?), but anyway I decided to quit. when I came out of India I came out stronger more laid back and happier, fa sho. well at a concert I got the urge and it was in front of me so I smoked and then after a couple weeks I met sum potheads who gave me free weed and I used to smoke everyother day (in my quitting exclusions, I said it would be OK if I cheated like once a month or sumn or if I got free weed), so anyway that fucked me up...I got so lazy, started fuckin up wit my parents cuz they found out, and like my grades went down too and I failed math.  anyway now im off it again but i do smoke in some rare occasions...but yeah like I said theres always 2 sides to it, good n bad, and also its all about occasional to rare use and its all gravy. peace out yall.
 

Ant

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2003, 02:54:57 AM »
AC I agree with most of your post except the last line.

where you said "would you prefer a society of drunks of stoners?"

I prefer neither.
 

Quakaveli

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Re:Marijuana Legalization in the US (please read)
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2003, 03:16:48 PM »
AC I agree with most of your post except the last line.

where you said "would you prefer a society of drunks of stoners?"

I prefer neither.

Its an Either/Or analogy though, don't be a smartass.