DOC starts his return to the top

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

He's a pioneer and all but the lyrics in Doggystyle or 2001 (which he most of the time oversaw, not really wrote) are clearly the weakest aspects of those albums.  

No, they are not.  We seem to be living in this new world of faux-sophistication where lyrics have to be complex and overly-intellectual to be considered valid of holding weight. Simple can be just as effective. Great writing, at its core, is about creating something that reasonates. If you can create a memorable song with basic words and rhyme patterns, that is not weak lyricism. If anything I think a true artist is one that stays in the moment, instead of trying to come off clever with a witty metaphor.  

I'd agree with most of this. But I also think a lot of songs have been carried by their beats. The lyrics on Doggystyle were memorable because look how many of Snoop's quotables came out of that. But I can't say the same for 2001. I believe you could have replaced Kurupt's "bitch is a bitch" rhymes with better lyrics, or given Dre better lyrics and that would have made the album even better.

there are entire songs on 2001 that are quotables.

LOL...forget it. this guy is a lost cause. he's tryna argue that DOC - No One Can Do It Better is not a west coast album lmao.

The album was by a rapper from the south. This thread even links to an article that calls him a Dallas rapper. He currently lives in Dallas and has for most of his life.

[Sccit]

He's a pioneer and all but the lyrics in Doggystyle or 2001 (which he most of the time oversaw, not really wrote) are clearly the weakest aspects of those albums.  

No, they are not.  We seem to be living in this new world of faux-sophistication where lyrics have to be complex and overly-intellectual to be considered valid of holding weight. Simple can be just as effective. Great writing, at its core, is about creating something that reasonates. If you can create a memorable song with basic words and rhyme patterns, that is not weak lyricism. If anything I think a true artist is one that stays in the moment, instead of trying to come off clever with a witty metaphor.  

I'd agree with most of this. But I also think a lot of songs have been carried by their beats. The lyrics on Doggystyle were memorable because look how many of Snoop's quotables came out of that. But I can't say the same for 2001. I believe you could have replaced Kurupt's "bitch is a bitch" rhymes with better lyrics, or given Dre better lyrics and that would have made the album even better.

there are entire songs on 2001 that are quotables.

LOL...forget it. this guy is a lost cause. he's tryna argue that DOC - No One Can Do It Better is not a west coast album lmao.

The album was by a rapper from the south. This thread even links to an article that calls him a Dallas rapper. He currently lives in Dallas and has for most of his life.

WTF DOES THAT MATTER. 2Pac was from New York, his rap name was MC New York when he started rappin and he didn't spend most of his rap career in LA..."No One Can Do It Better" is considered a westcoast landmark by anyone with sense in their brain......the muthafucka has a song called "West Coast":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs</a>

pull ur head out ur fuckin ass

[bouli77]

He's a pioneer and all but the lyrics in Doggystyle or 2001 (which he most of the time oversaw, not really wrote) are clearly the weakest aspects of those albums. 

No, they are not.  We seem to be living in this new world of faux-sophistication where lyrics have to be complex and overly-intellectual to be considered valid of holding weight. Simple can be just as effective. Great writing, at its core, is about creating something that reasonates. If you can create a memorable song with basic words and rhyme patterns, that is not weak lyricism. If anything I think a true artist is one that stays in the moment, instead of trying to come off clever with a witty metaphor. 

I completely agree with your definition of good lyrics, couldn't have said it better. but I still find most of Doggystyle and especially 2001 mediocre lyrics-wise or average at best. surely there were some excellent verses (Forgot about Dre, What's The Difference) but the bulk of it, especially on 2001 come off as rather insipid. But my point was that The DOC is a very egotistic person and while i'm not denying his lyrical abilities that are obvious on songs like the formula, i'm just saying that overseeing the writing of such albums as Doggystyle of 2001 where lyrics are clearly not the album's forte isn't a wonder in itself.

[Dargine]

the muthafucka has a song called "West Coast":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs</a>

lol, that ain't a official song, it's a remix someone made up.

Go look up D.O.C. "The Shit" from his album "Deuce".

To me "No One Can Do It Better" is the best album of all time, period. But it doesn't sound very "westcoast" to me, even tho' the full thing is produced by Dre and therefore it could still be considered "WestCoast" to me.. His second album "Helter Skelter" on the other hand got a very "westcoast g-funk" sound on the whole thing.. even tho' hardly anybody from the West worked on it.. both classic albums tho'.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

He's a pioneer and all but the lyrics in Doggystyle or 2001 (which he most of the time oversaw, not really wrote) are clearly the weakest aspects of those albums.  

No, they are not.  We seem to be living in this new world of faux-sophistication where lyrics have to be complex and overly-intellectual to be considered valid of holding weight. Simple can be just as effective. Great writing, at its core, is about creating something that reasonates. If you can create a memorable song with basic words and rhyme patterns, that is not weak lyricism. If anything I think a true artist is one that stays in the moment, instead of trying to come off clever with a witty metaphor.  

I'd agree with most of this. But I also think a lot of songs have been carried by their beats. The lyrics on Doggystyle were memorable because look how many of Snoop's quotables came out of that. But I can't say the same for 2001. I believe you could have replaced Kurupt's "bitch is a bitch" rhymes with better lyrics, or given Dre better lyrics and that would have made the album even better.

there are entire songs on 2001 that are quotables.

LOL...forget it. this guy is a lost cause. he's tryna argue that DOC - No One Can Do It Better is not a west coast album lmao.

The album was by a rapper from the south. This thread even links to an article that calls him a Dallas rapper. He currently lives in Dallas and has for most of his life.

WTF DOES THAT MATTER. 2Pac was from New York, his rap name was MC New York when he started rappin and he didn't spend most of his rap career in LA..."No One Can Do It Better" is considered a westcoast landmark by anyone with sense in their brain......the muthafucka has a song called "West Coast":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs</a>

pull ur head out ur fuckin ass

Pac moved to Cali as a teenager. It was his home. He repped it in his music. Who are you to tell the man he's not west coast when he says so himself?

The D.O.C. never made Cali his home. He never repped it. And like the dude said, that's not even a real song. LOL. He came out to Cali to fuck with Dre. His other albums weren't even made in Cali because he had returned home by then.

Dre producing No One Can Do It Better doesn't make it west coast unless the Bomb Squad producing Ice Cube's album in NY makes it east coast. You guys are so obsessed with everything associated with Dre and Death Row that you've lost your common sense.

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

"amerikkaz most wanted" is east-coast

[UCC]

Big L isn't one of the greats.

LOL, Big L is widely regarded as one of the greatest MCs, how can you not know that

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

Big L isn't one of the greats.

LOL, Big L is widely regarded as one of the greatest MCs, how can you not know that

The thing about Big L is that his entire legacy is based on hype from after he died and the popularity of the internet. While he was alive he was never regarded as one of the best. His debut wasn't a classic when it came out. Then he dies, the internet comes along, and white rap fans on hip hop forums start throwing his name in with the greats and calling his album a hip hop classic. Wigger, what?

All hype aside, he was a sick freestyler who released a good album that made no impact, got dropped from his label and then died before he could go indie. If he was alive today he probably would have joined Slaughterhouse.

[Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)]

right, Spiggety Spice. i agree on the white/internet-backpacker hiphopfanbase-part,, most of em r responsible for the exaggerated Big L-hype.. but the thing is,,,

a potential classic album, wont get the stamp-of-aproval till yrs later.. thats the thing wit the word "classic". "Godfather" wasnt considered a classic when it came out, just a good movie.
same thing wit "Lifestyles of da poor & dangerouz".. it was a great album from the get-go, and it became a calssic a few yrs later (by that time, Big L had died,, n if duke wouldve been alive later it still would be classic)

[quiksta80]

right, Spiggety Spice. i agree on the white/internet-backpacker hiphopfanbase-part,, most of em r responsible for the exaggerated Big L-hype.. but the thing is,,,

a potential classic album, wont get the stamp-of-aproval till yrs later.. thats the thing wit the word "classic". "Godfather" wasnt considered a classic when it came out, just a good movie.
same thing wit "Lifestyles of da poor & dangerouz".. it was a great album from the get-go, and it became a calssic a few yrs later (by that time, Big L had died,, n if duke wouldve been alive later it still would be classic)

totally agree madsen. classic to me means it has lasting power from years on from the time it was made. nobody does it better still has that lasting effect unlike most the garbage that is put out today. Sure many will think some of the stuff is hot at the moment but 10-12 yrs from now are people really gonna still care about recovery or anything else that has come out within these last few years...we'll have to wait and see but highly doubt it

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

same thing wit "Lifestyles of da poor & dangerouz".. it was a great album from the get-go, and it became a calssic a few yrs later (by that time, Big L had died,, n if duke wouldve been alive later it still would be classic)

No way. It got hyped because of his death. This album came out in 1995 and no one was talking about it. Not even years after, until white people hyped up his death on the internet. Do you really think they would have done that if he was still alive?

If Big L was alive he'd be yet another underappreciated lyricist who never made it (aka joined Slaughterhouse)

[shmosh]

same thing wit "Lifestyles of da poor & dangerouz".. it was a great album from the get-go, and it became a calssic a few yrs later (by that time, Big L had died,, n if duke wouldve been alive later it still would be classic)

If Big L was alive he'd be yet another underappreciated lyricist who never made it (aka joined Slaughterhouse)

Well he signed a deal with Jay-Z on Rocafella just before he died, so I doubt he would have 'never made it'. He was on the verge of making it when he was murdered.

[Sccit]

the muthafucka has a song called "West Coast":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs</a>

lol, that ain't a official song, it's a remix someone made up.

Go look up D.O.C. "The Shit" from his album "Deuce".

To me "No One Can Do It Better" is the best album of all time, period. But it doesn't sound very "westcoast" to me, even tho' the full thing is produced by Dre and therefore it could still be considered "WestCoast" to me.. His second album "Helter Skelter" on the other hand got a very "westcoast g-funk" sound on the whole thing.. even tho' hardly anybody from the West worked on it.. both classic albums tho'.

LMAO...who gives a fuck if thats a remix, dude is hollerin "West Coast" throughout the whole track. lemme guess, that was remixed in there too? come on, now...anyone who doesnt consider DOC west coast needs 2 slap theyself.

[Sccit]

He's a pioneer and all but the lyrics in Doggystyle or 2001 (which he most of the time oversaw, not really wrote) are clearly the weakest aspects of those albums.  

No, they are not.  We seem to be living in this new world of faux-sophistication where lyrics have to be complex and overly-intellectual to be considered valid of holding weight. Simple can be just as effective. Great writing, at its core, is about creating something that reasonates. If you can create a memorable song with basic words and rhyme patterns, that is not weak lyricism. If anything I think a true artist is one that stays in the moment, instead of trying to come off clever with a witty metaphor.  

I'd agree with most of this. But I also think a lot of songs have been carried by their beats. The lyrics on Doggystyle were memorable because look how many of Snoop's quotables came out of that. But I can't say the same for 2001. I believe you could have replaced Kurupt's "bitch is a bitch" rhymes with better lyrics, or given Dre better lyrics and that would have made the album even better.

there are entire songs on 2001 that are quotables.

LOL...forget it. this guy is a lost cause. he's tryna argue that DOC - No One Can Do It Better is not a west coast album lmao.

The album was by a rapper from the south. This thread even links to an article that calls him a Dallas rapper. He currently lives in Dallas and has for most of his life.

WTF DOES THAT MATTER. 2Pac was from New York, his rap name was MC New York when he started rappin and he didn't spend most of his rap career in LA..."No One Can Do It Better" is considered a westcoast landmark by anyone with sense in their brain......the muthafucka has a song called "West Coast":

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/NFMwcuy0Fxs</a>

pull ur head out ur fuckin ass

Pac moved to Cali as a teenager. It was his home. He repped it in his music. Who are you to tell the man he's not west coast when he says so himself?

The D.O.C. never made Cali his home. He never repped it. And like the dude said, that's not even a real song. LOL. He came out to Cali to fuck with Dre. His other albums weren't even made in Cali because he had returned home by then.

Dre producing No One Can Do It Better doesn't make it west coast unless the Bomb Squad producing Ice Cube's album in NY makes it east coast. You guys are so obsessed with everything associated with Dre and Death Row that you've lost your common sense.

LOL...so when Pac reps Cali, it makes him west coast, but DOC hollerin "west coast" throughout his tracks doesnt make him west coast? check urself, son. even if thats a remix, DOC was still hollerin "west coast" on many different tracks, reppin the west to the fullest. and like other dude said, even "Helter Skelter", which wasn't produced by Dre, was pure G-Funk....u really need 2 check urself, son. u been makin very little sense in this section, real spit.

[dubsmith_nz]

same thing wit "Lifestyles of da poor & dangerouz".. it was a great album from the get-go, and it became a calssic a few yrs later (by that time, Big L had died,, n if duke wouldve been alive later it still would be classic)

If Big L was alive he'd be yet another underappreciated lyricist who never made it (aka joined Slaughterhouse)

Well he signed a deal with Jay-Z on Rocafella just before he died, so I doubt he would have 'never made it'. He was on the verge of making it when he was murdered.

He didn't actually sign the deal with the roc but it was a possibility