Author Topic: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album  (Read 1492 times)

Sccit

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2011, 10:26:07 AM »
"Justify My Thug" had a tight beat
 

Jimmy H.

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2011, 10:35:57 AM »
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  
 

UCC

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 851
  • Karma: 603
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2011, 12:49:07 PM »
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground. 

Word, co-sign.
 

BG Rapsodie

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Karma: -770
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #63 on: September 18, 2011, 01:06:33 PM »
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.
 

Sccit

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2011, 01:20:04 PM »
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.



LOL...Daz is targeting the mainstream, he just cant reach 'em...it's not like they offered him to be lil wayne status and he turned it down. he tried making commercialized rap, but the mainstream wasnt hearin it. thats what "so so gangsta" was all about.
 

Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2011, 01:50:36 PM »
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

 :eh:

 "underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)

and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
do u have a factual diagram, wit differnet "a-lsit", "b-list", "C-lsit, "d--list" rappers?  maybe u made one urself?


like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO   :idea:













« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 02:12:26 PM by Michael Madsen »


 

Jimmy H.

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2011, 06:35:01 PM »
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

"underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music

Shlomo Sher's "philosophy for artists" argues that there are three common misconceptions about the "underground": that it refers exclusively to the rave/electronica scene; that it can be described with a vague, broad definition of "anything which is not mainstream"; and the myth that underground music is kept secret; he points out that no band or performer "exclud[es] virtually anyone or anything" using "secret passwords and hidden map points". Instead, Sher claims that "underground music" is linked by shared values, such as a valuing of grassroots "reality" over music with "pre-wrapped marketing glossing it up"; sincerity and intimacy; freedom of creative expression is valued over commercial success; art is appreciated as deeply meaningful fashion; and the Underground "difficult to find", because the scene hides itself from "less committed visitors" who would trivialize the music and culture.


and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
How is it that any more of an exaggeration than terms like "mainstream" or "underground"? At least it adds more variety to the conversation. "Mainstream" probably covers about 5% of the art form, at the most. Of the thousands of movies made every year how many actually get ad time on major prime-time television? Does that make everything else underground? Are the smaller major label artists not "mainstream" because they aren't household names? For instance, people like Daz might not get their songs played on the radio every hour of every day but they have far greater industry access than some kid that might have a huge following on the local club scene. They are on the mainstream radar, whether they are household names or nor. They are established amongst their peers. It's not pigeon-holing at all. If anything, your argument is the one that is making the whole thing smaller and less definied. You're basically saying that someone like Quik who can get radio time with people like Julio G. or Big Boy when he wants to promote his albums or has a direct line to Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg and does interviews for mainstream industry magazines like Source and XXL is closer in career stature to a succesful local artist than a platinum major label one. It's the same misconception that casual movie fans brought to the term "B-movie" which used to apply to a smaller studio picture but now seems to cover everything that doesn't have a poster in Wal-Mart. It's making ignorance and misinformation acceptable for the sake of using public perception to win an argument. To me, that's giving a pass to dumbing down people's way of thinking as long as they are agreeing with you.

like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO
Well, that's cool, settle for simple. I don't see it that way though. You could argue that being an opening act is the opposite of being a headliner and depending on how you look at it, the appearance could be viewed as correct since they are on the opposite ends of the table but they're still performing at the same venue and for nearly the same crowd. But even by Spice's theory, which you say you agree with, you're disproving the argument that many of these guys are "underground". Daz isn't headling his own smaller shows. He's playing a supporting role in the bigger, mainstream one.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 06:39:38 PM by Jimmy H. »
 

BG Rapsodie

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Karma: -770
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2011, 06:49:40 PM »
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
 

Jimmy H.

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2011, 07:33:56 PM »
What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
You missed my point entirely. His exposure isn't nonexistent either. He's exposed to a decent audience, just by being attached to Snoop. It might not be "over" with the audience in question but they are being exposed to it. I'm not arguing that he is a mainstream rapper. I'm saying there is a wider middle ground between "underground" and "mainstream" than people want to paint. It's not just about Daz. It's about a lot of these rappers.
 

BG Rapsodie

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Karma: -770
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2011, 08:11:32 PM »
What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
You missed my point entirely. His exposure isn't nonexistent either. He's exposed to a decent audience, just by being attached to Snoop. It might not be "over" with the audience in question but they are being exposed to it. I'm not arguing that he is a mainstream rapper. I'm saying there is a wider middle ground between "underground" and "mainstream" than people want to paint. It's not just about Daz. It's about a lot of these rappers.

You're wrong though. He gets less exposure and attention than artists who were never in the mainstream like Immortal Technique or Atmosphere. He's obviously not a nobody, but he's certainly underground at this point in his career. Going on a tour with Snoop doesnt change that, unless you want to start calling anyone who tours with Snoop mainstream. But you don't, because Snoop will work with almost anyone.
 

Jimmy H.

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2011, 08:32:28 PM »
Alright, let's try this one more time. You continue to think the core argument we are having is about Daz and whether he's mainstream or underground. I don't think he's either but if I had to pick one, I'd say he leans more toward the latter. I am arguing against the theory that artists fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". I'm not calling anyone who tours with Snoop "mainstream" but I would argue that if the majority of your touring is done as part of Snoop's show then you have a wider range of exposure than an "undergroud" artist. Whether or not your music catches on or reasonates with said audience is irrelevant. If Daz's interest was specifically in catering to a "smaller, more loyal audience" then he would headline his own indy tour where he was the core selling point, instead of playing a substantially smaller role in a much, larger show.
 

KURUPTION-81

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 8025
  • Karma: 832
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2011, 12:40:15 PM »
Quik def aint mainstream but i do think a alternative beat to justify my thug could have got him more exposure with todays mtv crowd.

"My greatest challenge is not what's happening at the moment, my greatest challenge was knocking Liverpool right off their fucking perch. And you can print that." Alex Ferguson
 

BG Rapsodie

  • Muthafuckin' Don!
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Karma: -770
Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2011, 02:10:09 PM »
Alright, let's try this one more time. You continue to think the core argument we are having is about Daz and whether he's mainstream or underground. I don't think he's either but if I had to pick one, I'd say he leans more toward the latter. I am arguing against the theory that artists fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". I'm not calling anyone who tours with Snoop "mainstream" but I would argue that if the majority of your touring is done as part of Snoop's show then you have a wider range of exposure than an "undergroud" artist. Whether or not your music catches on or reasonates with said audience is irrelevant. If Daz's interest was specifically in catering to a "smaller, more loyal audience" then he would headline his own indy tour where he was the core selling point, instead of playing a substantially smaller role in a much, larger show.

If you want to make up your own categories you've lost me. "Mainstream" and "underground" are the two categories that already exist and that people use.

btw, only the bigger underground artists can headline their own tours. Daz obviously doesn't have the popularity, even on an underground level, to do so. If he could do his own tour don't you think he would?
 

Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation)

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2011, 05:25:16 PM »
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

"underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music

Shlomo Sher's "philosophy for artists" argues that there are three common misconceptions about the "underground": that it refers exclusively to the rave/electronica scene; that it can be described with a vague, broad definition of "anything which is not mainstream"; and the myth that underground music is kept secret; he points out that no band or performer "exclud[es] virtually anyone or anything" using "secret passwords and hidden map points". Instead, Sher claims that "underground music" is linked by shared values, such as a valuing of grassroots "reality" over music with "pre-wrapped marketing glossing it up"; sincerity and intimacy; freedom of creative expression is valued over commercial success; art is appreciated as deeply meaningful fashion; and the Underground "difficult to find", because the scene hides itself from "less committed visitors" who would trivialize the music and culture.


and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
How is it that any more of an exaggeration than terms like "mainstream" or "underground"? At least it adds more variety to the conversation. "Mainstream" probably covers about 5% of the art form, at the most. Of the thousands of movies made every year how many actually get ad time on major prime-time television? Does that make everything else underground? Are the smaller major label artists not "mainstream" because they aren't household names? For instance, people like Daz might not get their songs played on the radio every hour of every day but they have far greater industry access than some kid that might have a huge following on the local club scene. They are on the mainstream radar, whether they are household names or nor. They are established amongst their peers. It's not pigeon-holing at all. If anything, your argument is the one that is making the whole thing smaller and less definied. You're basically saying that someone like Quik who can get radio time with people like Julio G. or Big Boy when he wants to promote his albums or has a direct line to Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg and does interviews for mainstream industry magazines like Source and XXL is closer in career stature to a succesful local artist than a platinum major label one. It's the same misconception that casual movie fans brought to the term "B-movie" which used to apply to a smaller studio picture but now seems to cover everything that doesn't have a poster in Wal-Mart. It's making ignorance and misinformation acceptable for the sake of using public perception to win an argument. To me, that's giving a pass to dumbing down people's way of thinking as long as they are agreeing with you.

like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO
Well, that's cool, settle for simple. I don't see it that way though. You could argue that being an opening act is the opposite of being a headliner and depending on how you look at it, the appearance could be viewed as correct since they are on the opposite ends of the table but they're still performing at the same venue and for nearly the same crowd. But even by Spice's theory, which you say you agree with, you're disproving the argument that many of these guys are "underground". Daz isn't headling his own smaller shows. He's playing a supporting role in the bigger, mainstream one.

dude, im not goin to read all of this shit.
its funny, Jimmy - but u alwyas tend to argue about the most irrelevant things n transcend the debates into speeches and political fury or some shit
ur entitled to ur opinions,, but im not wit this "ranking rappers wit A-list, B-list-D-list grade-cards like they are "Big brother"-celebrities
a rapper is either in the mainstream or in the underground,, n i dont care if a rapper worked wit 2pac or Whitney Houston 10 years prior to that and has ome old platinum-plaque from the 90's on his wall. i dont care if KRS-One or Jedi Mind Tricks is aiming for a specific type of "audience" wit they music, n if they decide to pigeonhole they music wit the "underground"-label just cuz  they feel like it. an artist can't nonchalantly label his music "underground", the consumers/media and market are responsible for that
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..




« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 05:28:44 PM by Michael Madsen »


 

Jimmy H.

Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2011, 08:38:35 PM »
dude, im not goin to read all of this shit.
its funny, Jimmy - but u alwyas tend to argue about the most irrelevant things n transcend the debates into speeches and political fury or some shit
ur entitled to ur opinions,, but im not wit this "ranking rappers wit A-list, B-list-D-list grade-cards like they are "Big brother"-celebrities
a rapper is either in the mainstream or in the underground,, n i dont care if a rapper worked wit 2pac or Whitney Houston 10 years prior to that and has ome old platinum-plaque from the 90's on his wall. i dont care if KRS-One or Jedi Mind Tricks is aiming for a specific type of "audience" wit they music, n if they decide to pigeonhole they music wit the "underground"-label just cuz  they feel like it. an artist can't nonchalantly label his music "underground", the consumers/media and market are responsible for that
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..
And it's funny how you obviously want to continue to argue out your point yet you seem to lack the attention span to read *gasp* three paragraphs? It's not like I'm asking for a book report on "War and Peace" here. Silly me. I thought the point of a debate was to actually use information to prove your point. Next time, I should maybe just dumb it all down with sarcastic replies like "dude, I'm not reading that". Sorry, if I lost you with all the big words there, partner. I'll sum it up with the cliffnotes edition here.

Music doesn't fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". You obviously don't agree and don't have much interest in an opposing opinion so we'll leave it at that.

Continue with your sarcastic banter about how people who like to write full sentences are full of "political fury" even though none of them contain any actual commentary on politics. Obviously, anyone who likes to read and write is "angry".