Did any West Coast rapper fall off and sell out worse than Mack 10?

[Sccit]

i dunno...u sayin hip-hop is "garbage", but u postin on a hip-hop message board. i get what ur tryna say, but to call an entire genre "garbage" is more over-the-top than the point infinite is tryna make, considering you post here, as well as other hip-hop message boards...it's like saying basketball is garbage and claiming it isn't comparable to soccer with all of its history, yet you're posting on insidehoops.com...doesn't make sense. i think a lot of people say hip-hop is "garbage" because they're just repeating the sentiments of older generations. in reality, there was great music before hip-hop...but there is great music within hip-hop as well. hip-hop gave people a voice, whereas most other genres of music is more about instrumentation/melody. not really comparable.

[Will_B]

i dunno...u sayin hip-hop is "garbage", but u postin on a hip-hop message board. i get what ur tryna say, but to call an entire genre "garbage" is more over-the-top than the point infinite is tryna make, considering you post here, as well as other hip-hop message boards...it's like saying basketball is garbage and claiming it isn't comparable to soccer with all of its history, yet you're posting on insidehoops.com...doesn't make sense. i think a lot of people say hip-hop is "garbage" because they're just repeating the sentiments of older generations. in reality, there was great music before hip-hop...but there is great music within hip-hop as well. hip-hop gave people a voice, whereas most other genres of music is more about instrumentation/melody. not really comparable.

Having said that, it's fair to say the majority of music from any genre is gonna be average or mediocre ....or even 'garbage'.....if u wanna use the term. From the days of Curtis Mayfield and Marvin Gaye, there are a recognised number of great artists...and a massive bunch of others who are just forgotten about.

But yeah, just because you like rap, doesn't mean u like it all. Or rate it all.

[MarshColin]

Kurupt fell off a lot more than Mack 10.

[Sir Petey]

i dunno...u sayin hip-hop is "garbage", but u postin on a hip-hop message board. i get what ur tryna say, but to call an entire genre "garbage" is more over-the-top than the point infinite is tryna make, considering you post here, as well as other hip-hop message boards...it's like saying basketball is garbage and claiming it isn't comparable to soccer with all of its history, yet you're posting on insidehoops.com...doesn't make sense. i think a lot of people say hip-hop is "garbage" because they're just repeating the sentiments of older generations. in reality, there was great music before hip-hop...but there is great music within hip-hop as well. hip-hop gave people a voice, whereas most other genres of music is more about instrumentation/melody. not really comparable.

nik  dont be a hypocrite...you say all the time this board is full of assholes nerds and fags but yet you cling to it like it was life support. but you made some other decent points in this thread...

[Black Excellence]

lmao at u dont want to let garbage enter your system yet your on a westcoast gangster rap music forum for 24 hours a day..  if u havent noticed 85 % of the subject matter in gangster rap is garbage..no matter what the label

The gangsta rap I listened to from the 90's was far from garbage. 

Gangsta rap was sort of like a modern day version of tribalism.  Back Ancient Africa and the Middle East, members of a tribe would have different titles and job duties.  For example you would have your warrior wing of the tribe, you would have your hunter gatherers, and so on.  One vital segment of the tribe were the poets.  The poets would glorify the virtues of the tribe.  The were the voice of the tribe and they communicated their aspirations to the outside world.  Gangsta rappers were the same way.  They were great poets and artists reppin where they were from and their virtues in heroism, courage, and valor. 

Anyone who knows Snoop knows that Snoop has a good heart.  Snoop is a righteous man.  2pac is a righteous man.  The gangsta rap I was listening to growing up was mostly Death Row and it's affiliates.  The weren't perfect, but for the most part it was positive.

no, it was garbage...even i can admit that.

its just it was the soundtrack to your youth so you cherish it like uncle rico.


songs like brenda had a baby etc dont hold a candle to songe like sam cookes change gon come....but unforuently in the 80 - 90s is when all music  took a turn for the worst so a song like that is the closest thing this generation has to actual humaniatrian artists and shit like stevie wonder curtis mayfield etc. its a shame that to cats like brian this is the closest they will ever have to being truly inspired by music is listening to tupac rhyme enemy with hennesee over old isley samples.

gangsta rap was far from garbage. it was talkin' about shit that happened in the ghettos of america. regardless of how the message was conveyed. ren's verses on always into somethin' or real niggaz was just as potent as a curtis mayfield lyric. just comin' from a different perspective. to say gangsta rap is garbage shows you've never experienced poverty at all....don't know what u are listenin' to cause there are a lot of gangsta rap classics out there.

[Sir Petey]

when i say its garbage i mean the exploitation and commercialization of it...making it a parody of itself.


artists hearts were in the right place they were working with the tools they were given. America promoted sterotypes and shushed conscious artists forcing a guy like tupac who very well may have rather recorded a whole album frull of brenda had a baby type records into making radio friendly pop diddys and pop fluff like alot of the shit on aeom


the media fueling bi costal wars shit like that. it cheapens the whole movement and as i get older and more mature id rather distance myself from it sometimes.

#truthhurts

[Sccit]

i dunno...u sayin hip-hop is "garbage", but u postin on a hip-hop message board. i get what ur tryna say, but to call an entire genre "garbage" is more over-the-top than the point infinite is tryna make, considering you post here, as well as other hip-hop message boards...it's like saying basketball is garbage and claiming it isn't comparable to soccer with all of its history, yet you're posting on insidehoops.com...doesn't make sense. i think a lot of people say hip-hop is "garbage" because they're just repeating the sentiments of older generations. in reality, there was great music before hip-hop...but there is great music within hip-hop as well. hip-hop gave people a voice, whereas most other genres of music is more about instrumentation/melody. not really comparable.

nik  dont be a hypocrite...you say all the time this board is full of assholes nerds and fags but yet you cling to it like it was life support. but you made some other decent points in this thread...

that has nothin to do with what i'm sayin...this board IS fulla nerds and fags, but at the end of the day, the point of this board is still to discuss west coast hip-hop. if west coast hip-hop really was "garbage", u'd be pretty damn foolish to be a big enough fan that you go on message boards daily to talk about it. fact of the matter is, i still enjoy discussin west coast hip-hop, which is why i come here. i really don't think you believe hip-hop is "garbage" deep down inside, u just sayin that. maybe a part of you was made to subconsciously think like that, but at the end of the day, we all know hip-hop has produced lots of greatness, as did other genres of music. comparing hip-hop to jazz, soul, or any other genre of music is like comparing basketball to baseball. it's like comparing a car to a motorcycle. it's like saying that playing the clarinet is better than writing poetry......two completely different things, not really comparable.

[Sir Petey]

the word garbage gets thrown around as loosely as the word classic

[Sccit]

when i say its garbage i mean the exploitation and commercialization of it...making it a parody of itself.


artists hearts were in the right place they were working with the tools they were given. America promoted sterotypes and shushed conscious artists forcing a guy like tupac who very well may have rather recorded a whole album frull of brenda had a baby type records into making radio friendly pop diddys and pop fluff like alot of the shit on aeom


the media fueling bi costal wars shit like that. it cheapens the whole movement and as i get older and more mature id rather distance myself from it sometimes.

#truthhurts

but that's every genre...and if u wanna use an example of an artist who "forced" shit, 2Pac isn't the greatest example. dude was an artistic genius, anything he touched was at the very least solid. his radio hits were timeless classics. i know what u mean with the exploitation and commercialization, but 2pac is not a good example, and that goes for pretty much any genre of music, or anything in life, period.

[Sir Petey]

no hes a great example let me tell you why.


becasue he made brenda had a baby type records but as rap expanded you wouldnt even know it...they promoted his alize thug passion sipping image. they promoted the west vs east thing. they werent interested in his humanitarian ideas they wanted to know what was prison like how much do you hate biggie right now? shit like that.


after he died they brought those records back to the forefront to romanticize his posthumous image after the east/west bullshit war

[Sccit]

no hes a great example let me tell you why.


becasue he made brenda had a baby type records but as rap expanded you wouldnt even know it...they promoted his alize thug passion sipping image. they promoted the west vs east thing. they werent interested in his humanitarian ideas they wanted to know what was prison like how much do you hate biggie right now? shit like that.


after he died they brought those records back to the forefront to romanticize his posthumous image after the east/west bullshit war

who cares? that shit produced tons of classics and helped unleash a lot of artistic greatness. thats why i say it's not a good example....mc hammer or somethin woulda been a better one imo.

[Jimmy H.]

Your arguement totally failed when you compared Mack 10 signing to Cash Money with Nas signing to Def Jam.  Def Jam is the pioneering label of hip-hop.  You could not find a more respectable label that has done more for representing hiphop culture than Def Jam.   Since the 80's with Kurtis Blow and Russel Simmons doing their thing to make hip-hop what it was I have nothing but love and repect for Russel Simmons.

Cash Money has done everything to destroy and ruin hip-hop and no label has done more to kill hip_hop than Cash Money has.

The two labels are like night and days.

Talk about drinking the fucking kool-aid. We're not talking about "night and day" here. You seem to be greatly confusing Def Jam's history with its current incarnation. Likewise, the Cash Money that Mack 10 signed with and the one that exists today are greatly different but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Def Jam is several owners removed from being "Russel Simmons and Rick Rubin creating a label out of a dorm room". You may be shocked to learn that... wait for it... Def Jam and Cash Money are both OWNED by the same fucking company and serve the same general purpose... to act as a hip-hop subsidiary. My "comparison" was actually a question that you, for the most part, dodged. You have strong distate for Cash Money, we've established this but how does that make Mack 10 a sell-out for working over there? Are we now arguing that anybody who doesn't share your views is a "sell-out"? You're talking about Def Jam as this respectable force in hip-hop culture but are you talking about the label of the past 12 years or the first decade and change or so? It's kind of important to keep things in historical context. For instance, The Source magazine I grew up reading and the one of the last 10 years, are radically-different.

But back to the subject at hand, it's not Nas signing to Def Jam that is questionable, on the surface. It is Nas signing to a label that is being overseen by a public rival. I'm not declaring him a sell-out for this. I'm asking how he gets a pass in YOUR BOOK for working on the label when Jay hopped onboard yet Mack 10, who to my knowledge had never said one ill word about Baby or any of them before signing, is this big sell-out? It should also be noted that Nas' Def Jam debut ended up dropping around the same time as Jay-Z's big comeback solo project with the significantly-larger promotional budget going to Jay. His second Def Jam album was supposed to be the controversial "Nigger", which ended up being the slighly-less attention-grabbing "Untitled" because Def Jam wouldn't support the first name. Today, he's joined the list of pissed-off veterans who are struggling to get Def Jam to give them a release date on their projects. Read up on that whole "Lost Tapes 2" scenerio.

Def Jam does have a strong history as an important record label but very few of the acts and executives who were a part of that period are still strongly active in today's company or the one that Nas signed to in 2006. Today, they are the home of Rick Ross, Rihanna, Young Jeezy, Ne-Yo, Jennifer Lopez, and the like. Traditional hip-hop acts like Nas, Redman, Ghostface, and Method Man still work there but you may want to read up an interview or two on them from the last couple years or so and see how the requests for new projects have gone over with the office. Better yet, let's start naming some big records the company has been pushing on any of them. I'm drawing a blank. How bout you? There was that one song Meth had with the Laurynn Hill sample that was really dope that the label could never figure out if they actually wanted to be a single or not.

[Triple OG Rapsodie]

I agree with Petey. Just listen to Whats ya Phone # and imagine the kind of songs Pac could have been making instead. There's a reason Changes was an unreleased studio session instead of coming out while he was alive. You might be nodding your head to 2Pac saying nothing over G Funk beats, but I know he could've done a lot more.

[Sccit]

I agree with Petey. Just listen to Whats ya Phone # and imagine the kind of songs Pac could have been making instead. There's a reason Changes was an unreleased studio session instead of coming out while he was alive. You might be nodding your head to 2Pac saying nothing over G Funk beats, but I know he could've done a lot more.

fact of the matter is, 2pac produced classics before and after signing with death row...if the music he released with death row was all garbage, u might have a great point. but i enjoy the death row 2pac's music as much (if not more) than the pre-death row 2pac's music, as do most west coast hip-hop heads.

[Quadruple OG]

Kurupt fell off a lot more than Mack 10.

Glad there's someone else in this thread that has common sense. Mack 10 lyrically and content wise was consistent; he was never a top-5 MC in the game who's skills rapidly declined over the years.