Author Topic: American Standard of Living  (Read 704 times)

ITW [the irish boy]

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American Standard of Living
« on: February 08, 2003, 08:09:54 AM »
My dad came home from work today very pissed off about the social support system:in America. Now my dad is usually very pro-american, but today he recieved a call from a friend in Texas.
This woman is a born an reared texan, living in Dallas. She comes from a rich family, and she qualified as a procecution lawyer when she was in her twenties. Her husband was a rocket scientist. She has 2 children the first of whom is in an expensive college. Everything was going perfect for her up until 3 years ago.
She was lecturing at UT when her husband died of a heart attack. Distraught, she went through about a year of being down and depressed, paying huge hospital bills to deal with it. She continued to own a large house and provide for her children through the money they had saved. However this year, she too suffered a minor heart attack and had to give up her job. For the last year, she and her daughters have lived off the savings while continuosly paying huge hosptal bills. For some reason, a family with no income does not get the dole, of free medical insurance. This seems draconian, but it's true. Now she rang my dad yesterday to say they've run out of money. She has no way of paying for her next hospital visit, or the college fees. She will have to take her daughter out of college, and possibly mortgage the house, but not recieving any income she will never be able to re purchase it. This one time succesful lawyer was yesterday queing with her daughter, a pretty 16yr old, quing for soup at a soup kitchen. Can you people who support right wing fiscal policies explain to me why this woman gets no safety net in case she trips on her road to success. What worries me greatly is this can happen to a rich woman. Imagine a working class woman, what chance would she have? Does anyone else agree that a strong social welfare scheme should be the basis for a socially inclusive society and not just GDP growth?
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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2003, 08:17:52 AM »
But remember Dubya's tax cut is coming, with 45% of savings going to the richest 1% in America (George's friends)
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2003, 10:37:03 AM »
My dad came home from work today very pissed off about the social support system:in America. Now my dad is usually very pro-american, but today he recieved a call from a friend in Texas.
This woman is a born an reared texan, living in Dallas. She comes from a rich family, and she qualified as a procecution lawyer when she was in her twenties. Her husband was a rocket scientist. She has 2 children the first of whom is in an expensive college. Everything was going perfect for her up until 3 years ago.
She was lecturing at UT when her husband died of a heart attack. Distraught, she went through about a year of being down and depressed, paying huge hospital bills to deal with it. She continued to own a large house and provide for her children through the money they had saved. However this year, she too suffered a minor heart attack and had to give up her job. For the last year, she and her daughters have lived off the savings while continuosly paying huge hosptal bills. For some reason, a family with no income does not get the dole, of free medical insurance. This seems draconian, but it's true. Now she rang my dad yesterday to say they've run out of money. She has no way of paying for her next hospital visit, or the college fees. She will have to take her daughter out of college, and possibly mortgage the house, but not recieving any income she will never be able to re purchase it. This one time succesful lawyer was yesterday queing with her daughter, a pretty 16yr old, quing for soup at a soup kitchen. Can you people who support right wing fiscal policies explain to me why this woman gets no safety net in case she trips on her road to success. What worries me greatly is this can happen to a rich woman. Imagine a working class woman, what chance would she have? Does anyone else agree that a strong social welfare scheme should be the basis for a socially inclusive society and not just GDP growth?

What a load of bullshit.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2003, 11:38:39 AM »
why dont u respond properly u dumb fuck, or was the standard of education in your locality too lacklustre?
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2003, 11:16:33 PM »
One of the many benefits of living in the US, the way we care for our poor LOLOL!

On a side note, SDPD shot and killed another homeless man 2 days ago. Im sure cwalker would agree, thas tha best way to deal with the homeless problem.  ::)
 

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2003, 07:00:28 AM »
What a load of bullshit.


 ::) ::)  Strange how ya can live life with blinkers only seeing what you want. This is a woman that lives in a similar neighbourhood to you CWalker. Better hope u dont stumble or u'll be at the soup kitchens too.
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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2003, 11:52:10 AM »
What a load of bullshit.


 ::) ::)  Strange how ya can live life with blinkers only seeing what you want.

Dude, how old are you? 6? 7? Because you come off as incredibly naive.

No one who comes from a wealthy family, with one spouse working as an attorney and the other working as a rocket scientist and a nice house and substantial savings......will find themselves in a fucking soup kitchen begging for food just because one of them dies from a heart attack. Especially not in a country like America where there is such a high standard of living. Your story is prepostorous.

Some Europeans are incredibly stupid. I remember my high school had some exchange students come from the Netherlands. They said the first thing they wanted to do in America when they got here was go see all the homeless people. We all laughed when they said that. They actually had been taught that in the US there are swarms  of poor, destitute homeless people wandering around everywhere, victims of America's cruel economic system. We had to explain to them that if they wanted to see some bums they would probably have to drive 500 miles to the nearest big city and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2003, 12:07:13 PM by CWalker187 »
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2003, 12:06:25 PM »
This is a woman that lives in a similar neighbourhood to you CWalker. Better hope u dont stumble or u'll be at the soup kitchens too.

You obviously know nothing about America. The only people who are homeless or in soup kitchens are people who are mentally deranged or who are addicted to drugs or alcohol. It certainly isn't a lack of welfare as you say.....there is too much economic opportunity here in the US. There is an overabundance of jobs......that is why our immigration is so high.

Irish Thug.....please educate yourself. You sound very sheltered and naive. I think you need to go out and actually experience the world before you go out and make ridiculous claims.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2003, 12:14:26 PM »
But remember Dubya's tax cut is coming, with 45% of savings going to the richest 1% in America (George's friends)

Perhaps the biggest tax saving are going to the people who make the most money because.... They make the most money and in turn pay the most taxes!!!  :o
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2003, 12:32:15 PM »
1.)It seems to me like there aren't many free-lance rocket scientists... Color me stupid, but wouldn't he work for a compnay? When I think of rocket companies, I think of boeing, donald douglas, aerobus and the like, I really think you would be hard pressed to find a aerospace company that didn't offer it's employees many and large benifits including medical insurance...

2.) These people have a daughter but no medical insurance? That seems a little odd to me.

3.) Why can't the daughter just apply for loans? The bank loves to give out loans to college students. Also, what about financial aid? I know for a fact that there are many scholarships out there for just about anything. You don't even have to be a good student to get one.

4.) Why can't this lady go back to work? I know many people who have had heart attacks and been back at work in a matter of months.

5.) Has the daughter left college yet? Has the mom had to morgatage the house yet? From what I've gathered, this hasn't happend yet.
 

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2003, 04:00:51 PM »
I'll answer engel-wood first because he is actually making sense with his questions.

1/ Yeah he did work for a company, dunno who though, Ive only talked to the woman twice. As for medical insurance, im sure he did have insurance, but apparently it didnt cover the remaining family after his death!?! Strange, but im not one to argue
2/ See above
3/ I think the problem here is she's enrolled in one of the posher schools where fees are extremely high. Maybe she could get student aid, but the remainder would still be too high.
4/ She cant go back to work because she is currently suffering from depression as a result of the above+looking after her 16yr old daughter. Perhaps in a few months she would be able to start again.
5/ No, none of this has happened yet. From what I've gathered that is the cloud hanging over her at the moment. Hopefully she will be able to get out of the situation by some other way. I think her best option would be to reenrol her daughter in a less expensive college and/or ask her to work to help support the family.


As for CWalker, i find the only thing that is preposterous is that you claim a TRUE story could not possibly happen, when i have heard it first hand.

If I am to believe your claims about the homeless, then the american homeless are a completely different breed to the rest of the world. Of course there are addicts and a few mentally deranged, but what about those kicked out of their families, businessmen who have bankrupted etc etc. I dont know how you can consider me naive when you make sweeping statements like that. As for going out and experiencing the world, haha, i dunno how much more i can do that. At 18 Ive had 3 jobs, had a full education, been to 7 countries including USA, played soccer for a top irish team, carryed the coffin of a parent and a grandparent, and i currently box, play gaelic football, have a pretty girlfriend, am enrolled for sound engineering in college next year, while keeping up to date with an open mind on world politics and local issues. How exactly am I naive. Ive seen more and done more than you can imagine son. Sorry if I got personal there coz this was meant as a reasoned response for engelwood.Fuckit

ITW

BTW, what age r u cwalker?
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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2003, 04:14:32 PM »
and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.



One or two? Now whoz naive?? Youre as naive as those exchange students. U MUST be from the country or something, cus if u took a drive around San Diego, or La, or a lot of other large cities...youd see how bad the homeless problem really is. Youll see rows, and rows, and rows of homeless people. People just like u, who thought theyd never be homeless. Theres a lady in my neighborhood that was a RN, shes been in our neighborhood homeless for at least 6 years. If u stop and talk to these people, u could really learn sumthin actually. A lot of em are just mentally ill, and get stuck on the streets. San Diego has the worst percentage of mentally ill homeless people in the US. To an extent, those exchange students...were correct in their thinking.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2003, 01:21:01 AM »
oh boo hoo, i feel sorry for this family i truely do , if this did really happen but this is one isolated incident you want to make this seem as if it's chronic incident, check this shit out

my grandma has had every medical problem imaginable , and the one that tops that list is cancer not once but 3 times.  yeah sure she had to pay  a lot of medical bills for her ailments but she way properly taken care of and bounced back from her debt. she divorced my grandpa a few years ago and married some canadian dude, so she lives in canada , the hollowed place of "great health care" , anyway when she got breast cancer the 3rd time it was the LEAST lethal to her from the previous 2 which were in her other breast and throat (which were taken care of RIGHT away and effciently by doctors she had in Utah), she went and had her self treated to the "great health benefits of being a canadian citizen" for her new breast cancer and ended up getting even sicker! so she goes out and spend more money for better service, and the doctors STILL manage to make her least lethal round of cancer even worse and more painfull, so what does my grandma have to do? she has to come 2,000 miles back to the US to get treated by her old doctors, who cut her a better deal and took care of her great!


now i can  make a whole post about this just bashing the fuck outta canada saying that their whole health care system might be "great" but it's quality is poor



relise this, in america you have many options you can either get insurance, recieve free health insurance from a good company you work for, or pay as you get hurt/extremely sick. i like my options sure i'd like to have free service, but i don't want my tax $$ going to some miss priss who scrapes her knee and gets a free doctors visit courtesy of me! i think it'd be nice to help pay for MAJOR sugeries  for people who couldn't afford it, but that's all i'd pay for i'm not paying for some bitches visit for a cold!  either you other people in the world get sick easily or are weak and need to go to the doctor after every cold and flu season.


also i don't see why this chick can't go back to work, my neighbor has had 2 heart attacks and lost his wife to cancer and didn't do what this chick did. also that girl in college should support herself! that's like having your parents buy you a new mercedes and then not being able to make payments then someone feeling sorry for her. f that! if you want something like that you should get it yourself


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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2003, 01:26:17 AM »
and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.



One or two? Now whoz naive?? Youre as naive as those exchange students. U MUST be from the country or something, cus if u took a drive around San Diego, or La, or a lot of other large cities...youd see how bad the homeless problem really is. Youll see rows, and rows, and rows of homeless people. People just like u, who thought theyd never be homeless. Theres a lady in my neighborhood that was a RN, shes been in our neighborhood homeless for at least 6 years. If u stop and talk to these people, u could really learn sumthin actually. A lot of em are just mentally ill, and get stuck on the streets. San Diego has the worst percentage of mentally ill homeless people in the US. To an extent, those exchange students...were correct in their thinking.



yeah sucks i know but this ain't just america bub, ive been to LA 230948320984029384 times  and from my observation i had more people begg me for change in Toronto, Halifax, St.Johns newfoundland, and London when i stepped of the plane




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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2003, 05:39:27 AM »
yeah sucks i know but this ain't just america bub, ive been to LA 230948320984029384 times  and from my observation i had more people begg me for change in Toronto, Halifax, St.Johns newfoundland, and London when i stepped of the plane




i aint sayin its the only place, But LA...is pretty bad. Ive seen alot of shit myself, or had family members who have also. And LA has a LOT of homeless people. I mean, im sure youve been down to Mexico...and yah that shit is TERRIBLE. But im comparing the US, to the students he was talking about from the Netherlands. I can see why they had an idea of what America was already, just like i can see why a poor family in Mexico would assume that the US is full of rich people...even tho it isnt.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2003, 02:41:52 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2003, 03:23:16 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...

because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2003, 03:27:39 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...

because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.

How are we "Quick to judge other countries"

When you mean America, who are you talking about?
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2003, 03:54:55 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...

because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.

How are we "Quick to judge other countries"

When you mean America, who are you talking about?

YOU are american...nuff said. lol
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2003, 04:00:36 PM »
I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in. Note:this is not my opinion, i dont live there. I am just bringing you a set of facts in this thread that I learned this week. Make no mistake, if it was england where the same thing happened I would make the same post. The purpose of this post was not to hate on america in particular, it was to raise the question of whether or not social welfare should be sacrificed for higher economic growth. I personnally think a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if u raise the standard of all the links the chain will be alot stronger.


Just one other thing. I dunno the particulars about that tax you mentioned, but engelwood you said the top earners pay the top tax. In Ireland this year the top 29 earners in the country payed 0.00 tax. That is because with the best accountants etc you can use loopholes in legislation. Im sure its similar in the US.

On the homeless, I believe the US has been the worst of the rich west homeless-wise, but believe me, other countries are catching up very quickly. 20 years ago in Ireland there were a total of 19 people homeless in Dublin city and today there is over a thousand. Sad.
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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2003, 04:09:34 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...

because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.

How are we "Quick to judge other countries"

When you mean America, who are you talking about?

YOU are american...nuff said. lol
No, It's not "Nuff" Said. How am I quick to judge other countries?
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2003, 04:25:10 PM »
I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in. Note:this is not my opinion, i dont live there. I am just bringing you a set of facts in this thread that I learned this week. Make no mistake, if it was england where the same thing happened I would make the same post. The purpose of this post was not to hate on america in particular, it was to raise the question of whether or not social welfare should be sacrificed for higher economic growth. I personnally think a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if u raise the standard of all the links the chain will be alot stronger.


Just one other thing. I dunno the particulars about that tax you mentioned, but engelwood you said the top earners pay the top tax. In Ireland this year the top 29 earners in the country payed 0.00 tax. That is because with the best accountants etc you can use loopholes in legislation. Im sure its similar in the US.

On the homeless, I believe the US has been the worst of the rich west homeless-wise, but believe me, other countries are catching up very quickly. 20 years ago in Ireland there were a total of 19 people homeless in Dublin city and today there is over a thousand. Sad.

You just lost a lot of credibitlity in my eyes.

You bring these terms like: "The Media" and "The best country" up, but what do these terms mean? These are just borad generalizations that sound good but have no substince behind them. Show examples how "The Media" portrays America. You claim that the media portarys America as "the best country in the world" Do you live here? Do you watch the local news from my town? How can you say this about "The Media" but you live across the ocean?

You contribute to the American Bashing. You gave ONE example which is a isolated incident. You portray this SINGLE incident like it's how everything is, and how every single citizen's American expierence is. You are wrong.  Another thing, the "horrible" things you talked about HAVEN'T EVEN OCCURED YET.

I live in America. I love it here. I grew up without a father and no money. I've made a life for myself. I put myself though college without any outside help. I make a great deal of money. I'm doing great for myself. It's not an "awful society" like you say. I'm free to do what I like and Im judged on my skills and abilities, not on my "need" for welfare. I love America.

Next you try to compare Ireland to America with Taxes. You say you're "sure its the similar" How can you be sure about this? have you done research? Do you know how American Tax laws work? Once again, a broad generalization and stereotype that has no basis in fact.

Next, you say: "I believe" the US is the worst dealing with homelessness. PROVE it. Im sure that puff daddy is the best musican in the history of music. If I can't prove it, it's useless slander.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2003, 09:20:32 PM »
Why is there so many America-bashing threads?

Answer me that question FULLY...

Jealously, pure and simple.
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2003, 09:27:54 PM »
I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in.

Just exacty who is saying America is an awful place to live? I certainly don't see anyone leaving, just coming.

Seriously man, where do you get this stuff?
 

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Re:American Standard of Living
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2003, 09:33:03 PM »
This is total bullshit.  My mom's in the same situation, and gets Medicaid (which almost any american can get for free, by filling out a form).  Also, hospital bills do not have to be paid, ESPECIALLY if it means selling your house.  It's the law that they can't turn you away from medical attention if you can't afford it.  Anybody who's been to the emergency room in charlotte can tell you that.