Author Topic: Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....  (Read 589 times)

Jay ay Beee

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Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« on: February 12, 2003, 09:43:41 PM »
YOU'RE JEALOUS OF ME
I AM THE BEST
EVERYTHING I SAY IS TRUE AND YOU ARE STUPID AND YOU ARE LYING BECAUSE YOU ARE JEALOUS OF HOW GREAT I AM!

That is both of your underlying attitudes when you defend America.  You see what I am saying?  It's Dubya's argument as well, which is extremely dangerous to the world.

I am not doing this to start a beef, I'm just trying to help you understand the frustrations of many when trying to argue against American policies, whether it be the German and French against Bush or on a message board.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2003, 09:44:07 PM by Jay ay Beee »
 

Ant

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2003, 11:20:27 PM »
Many people dislike America because we are the best.  It may not be a direct reason, but its a part of their reason.  Often times people criticize America simply because criticism makes them feel important.  Go do some research on the psychology and sociology of martyrdom.  While the members of this board aren't martyrs the point is that people become martyrs because it elevates a person to feel as if he is doing something important.  Saving the world is probably the most important task anyone can do.  Martyrs would like to believe they are saving the world, as would the layman.  

The martyr always attacks those currently in power.  A martyr can't exist unless something is wrong, and if something isn't wrong we can always say it is or at least tell ourselves it is.  The US is the worlds power now, and a martyr must come forth to save us.  A martyr feels the most extreme sense of pleasure from his battle, but there is obvious incentives for every man to attack American ideals right now.  As I've said before, it makes people feel better to think they are doing something important, and fighting for something important.

The US does things wrong.  But you're arguement is poorly constructed.

Let me break it down further.  When arguing its a sly tactic to state your obvious reasoning and declare it not to be your reasoning.  Here you are coming out and saying, "I'm not attacking America because I'm jealous."

The fact that you made this statement doesn't change anything.  You still may in fact be attacking America because you are jealous.  All you did was say you're not, which essentially means nothing.  At times this sort of arguement will confuse the other person, and you may gain an advantage.
 
 
Furthermore, you specifically may not be jealous of America.  But you attempted to represent the majority of anti-americans.  The majority of anti-americans may be jealous of America, and again your statement doesn't change this.

Just because you stated the obvious reason why most poeple attack america doesn't suddenly mean that the true reason for anti-americanism is no longer the true reason for anti-americanism.  

Anti-americanism is the product of a few factors which I see

1) Existing american wrong-doing
2) Propaganda
3) Envy
4) A desire to feel important
5) Religious convictions, specifically religious morality that deviates from American morality

 

Jay ay Beee

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2003, 11:42:08 PM »
You have summed real "anti-Americanism" up perfectly.  I however am not anti-American.  Being anti-American is criticising them for anything the do at state level, while also criticising the American people.  These people do exist, but they can rarely carry their arguments on an acceptable level because they are not strong enough in their convictions to research what they believe well enough.  
  The exact same goes for anti-Muslim/foreigners generally Americans who, rather than taking the time to try and learn about the history of a subject, hide behind massive generalizations and propaganda (CWalker).  Searching for something on the internet guarantees you will find some sort of article that will back up your 'argument', the fact that you have found some faceless journalist to agree with your point of view somehow means your argument is superior. (Engel especially).
  George W. Bush believes he is saving the world.  He is not a good enough President, (or hard working enough) to try and work through the difficult American system and make things better for the majority.  This is why he tries to fool the poor by grabbing their attention through attacking Muslims, while at the same time placating the rich by sucking big businesses dick.  So when you talk about martyrdom, George Bush fits into the category of someone who hasn't got the ability to actually improve the world and believes that the "war on terror" is somehow improving the world.
  The real in light of the ideal is how you should look at political matters.
And Ant I pose you the question: "Is it not right that the nation that takes advantage of the world to the highest degree, should also be prepared to recieve criticism when they act questionably in order to benefit themselves, no matter how others act?"

pizzeace
 

Woodrow

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2003, 06:25:01 AM »
First off, I find it funny that you put me in the same boat as C-walker. Just because we both support America you think we are hand in hand. How would people react If I started putting Mastero-Minded in the same group as Osama Bin Laden just because they share the same religion?

What I don't understand is that you claim that only c-walker hides "behind massive generalizations and propaganda". What about the anti-americanism elements of this board? Do they get off the hook or are you just overlooking them? If you hold one side of an argument to a higher standard, please do me a favor and do it to the other.

If you take a look at the Articles I post, they are from unbiased sources and have FACTS. Anybody can argue, but if you have facts to back your argument up, I don't care what you say, it IS superior to an argument crafted without facts. I could argue all day that french fries are good for you, but if somebody comes in with facts that say the contrary, it's easy to see who has the stronger argument.

You are nothing but a monday morning quarterback, a back seat driver. Who are you to tell people that George Bush isn't "Hard working enough"? How could you possibly know that? Do you spend the day with the president? Do you know his schedual? That just blows my mind that you think you are qualified to say something like that.

Also you claim that Bush is "attacking Muslims" GIVE ME A BREAK Everything that has been said or done by our president has preached tollerance and acceptance twards Muslims. Show me one instance where Bush has come out even speaking down to Islam... We aren't at war with Islam, we are at war with intollerance and hate. Please don't group Islam and Hate together. This isn't a religious issue. It's a hate and intollerance issue.

Even thought I'm not Ant, I would like to address your question.
It's fine if you would like to debate issues with us, but please don't mistake debating with "preaching to" or "talking at". Be prepared to back up your argument with facts and well constructed arguments or nobody will take you serious. Also, the type of Anti-Americanism that exists on this board is not just aginst the Iraq issue, Our health care system, our intelligence, our weight, and countless other things have been attacked. You can't deny that there is a HUGE anti-american element to this board.


Next you come out saying that Bush isn't helping the world with the War on terror... Let me remind you that there was no war on terror untill 3000 of my fellow citizens were killed with no justification. What do you suggest we do? Just let it slide and go on with our lives? The entier world was changed on 9/11. Like it or not, things will never be the same. For you to claim the War on terror isn't improving the world is one of the STUPIDEST thing's I've ever seen you say. I guess that posion factory that was busted up in your country was improving the world? I guess the bombings that were planned in your country were going to improve the world?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2003, 07:39:06 PM by Engel-Rock AKA Dances With Bitch »
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2003, 11:27:56 AM »
Engle you become sensitive when u are grouped with c walker, but you're quik to group me with him

second, america is leading on war on islam. do u know anything about geopolitics? realpolitik? bush isnt gonna come out and say we're after muslims. its all covert, using a series of assymetrical warfare and all out war.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Woodrow

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2003, 12:06:00 PM »
bush isnt gonna come out and say we're after muslims. its all covert, using a series of assymetrical warfare and all out war.
Wow, you really are paranoid.

THIS ISN'T THE X-FILES




 

Woodrow

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2003, 12:06:45 PM »
I become sensitive becuase I see that you both have extreme views.

I don't.
 

Entreri117

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2003, 02:49:00 PM »
Engle you become sensitive when u are grouped with c walker, but you're quik to group me with him

second, america is leading on war on islam. do u know anything about geopolitics? realpolitik? bush isnt gonna come out and say we're after muslims. its all covert, using a series of assymetrical warfare and all out war.

^^^^^

Ignorance at it's finest...

Tech, I'm very surprised with you.  You have brought very interesting and very good arguements in the past, and I've always respected you.  But that comment about the US going to war with "Islam" is totally and completely ignorant, absurd, and WRONG.
 

Entreri117

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2003, 02:52:20 PM »
PS: Yes, I do know what geopolitics are.  I was taught, and being taught right now in my global history class that geopolitics is about location...hence GEO in GEOpolitics.  I also know that Russia wanted to defeat the Ottoman Empire a long time ago because of geopolitics, or in plain terms, because of their strategic location.

So I ask you this?  What the fuck does geopolitics have to do with the US going to war with Islam?
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2003, 03:19:57 PM »
1.3 billion people, and the majority of the world oil fields, thats what Islam has to do with geopilitics


and if yall dont see this is a war against Islam, then you my friend are ignorant
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Entreri117

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2003, 05:43:45 PM »
1.3 billion people, and the majority of the world oil fields, thats what Islam has to do with geopilitics


and if yall dont see this is a war against Islam, then you my friend are ignorant

Shit man...thats just WOW

I still stand my point...this in no way is a war against Islam.  Is it our fault that the majority of muslims live in areas of useable oil?  No...it's not.  If muslims weren't there, we'd still be after the oil just as much.  If there was all Christians there...to you...it'd be a war against Christians.  If there was all Jews there...to you...it'd be a war against Jews.  etc. etc.

If it truely was a war against Islam, the military would go around and exectute every muslim person they could find...that means in the U.S. as well.  That is not happening at all.

Sorry to break it to you, Tech...but YOU are ignorant.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 05:45:32 PM by Xearo »
 

Quakaveli

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2003, 06:02:11 PM »
LOL Jay when the fuck has Dubya attacked Muslims lol...ppl are pissed cuz he is too nice to Islam and U go on sayin glal this BS.. ::)
 

Quakaveli

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2003, 06:12:04 PM »
Fuckin shit...fools like tech claim that US is the reason Islamic nations is full of hate and anger... ::) FUCK THAT SHIT...Islam...no..the LEADERS of Islamic nations and armies lemme correct myself...have shown EXTREME INTOLERANCE for the most case in the past...its a known fact...U claim ppl like Osama are just mad at the nations that have opressed muslims...then tell me why does he wanna bomb India? Since the past India has been terrorized and looted by muslims...even now Pakistan's bitch ass won't let it be...but still Osama wants EVERY NON-MUSLIM NATION TO BE DESTROYED...hes a bigot, and so are many muslim leaders and religious ppl.

It aint even about that though...Islamic ppl got little reason to be mad at the US...they jus mad cuz we are better and they are livin in shit and we high rollers baby...like I said its mostly jealousy and brainwashing tactics. Their own nation sucks..so blame the problem on US or India or Israel...fuckin idiots.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2003, 06:12:47 PM by Dead Bully Ho Slappa »
 

King Tech Quadafi

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2003, 06:44:09 PM »
First, Xeoro what you need to do is stop thinking this world is black and white. Its not. This world has nothing to do with the moral cause of govts. This is all about interests. When Govts have vested interests they will do anything to protect and maintain their interests. When a country is in a position of power, it will do all it can to maintain the status quo. Ex. (arms race during cold war).

Its a War on Islam. Period.

1. Israel is surrounded by 230 Million Arabs. Since its founding, it has been supplied, armed and propped up by the US. It has a vested interest in Israel. Israel is used to maintain the US presence in the Middle East. Muslims threaten thi.

2. The West, and its Judeo-Christain leaders have long sought the destruction of Islam. Ever since the Crusades, leading up to WW1, and afterwards, the Christain West has plotted against the Islamic world. Dont get me wrong, the Muslims have been plotting against the West as well.

3. Its the fastest growing religion in the world, and one whose values contrast very much with Modern Western culture due to its more conservative outlook on life.

For the last time, you guys are talkin foolishly with your examples ("if Bush hated muslims he'd kill em all").
Bush CANT come out and say it. Which country announces their intentions ? The fact is, yall need to realize what goes on in this world is not how it seems.
"One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know," Alice answered. "Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."

- Lewis Carroll
 

Woodrow

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Re:Engel, Cwalker mainly - you disagree with me because....
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2003, 06:50:42 PM »
It REALLY amazes me that you still try and prove something that is so obviously wrong.

There aren't a bunch of "Western Leaders" that sit around in a dark smokey room planning and plotting ways to kill off all muslims. Thats just fucking absurd. For you to come out and say something like what you've said above makes you look like a paranoid delusional. Im being 100% serious here. Have you ever been checked for mild schizophrenia? You so seriously belive this shit it's amazing to me. How do you feel about UFO's? How about Sasquatch? Have you ever seen a ghost? How are people supposed to take you seriously when you calim there is an international committee devoted to the downfall of a religion. You need get your head checked.