Author Topic: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?  (Read 1559 times)

BiggBoogaBiff

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 04:34:18 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
 

Enigma

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2013, 06:29:00 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 06:36:31 PM »
^^^ This guy gets it.
 

Blood$

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 06:37:46 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
 

Remedy360

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 07:42:22 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

This, Jay definitely has some great stuff, but I just can't see him in the same light as other great MC's.
 

Hack Wilson - real

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2013, 08:51:49 PM »
only Jay Z stans will tell you his discog is great


it is what it is...a few dope albums early (Reasonable being the best but Vol 2 had some bangers too) and some heavily over rated records that sold a lot so therefore they must be "classic" or else you should be labeled a Jigga hater lol



I got a lot of Jay songs on my ipod  (more than most rappers) but his entire discography is pretty boring toward the end
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 09:10:09 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.
 

Hack Wilson - real

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2013, 09:20:11 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.


NIK has always shown love to Necro and Non Phixion
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 11:41:52 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2013, 12:17:06 AM »
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2013, 12:52:27 AM »
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.



almost all those albums are crap.


some have one or two good tracks, some none.

u from brooklyn? i dont know how anyone outside of brooklyn can think his disco is so great, unless they have absolute no knowledge of the rap game.



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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2013, 01:34:26 AM »
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.



almost all those albums are crap.


some have one or two good tracks, some none.

u from brooklyn? i dont know how anyone outside of brooklyn can think his disco is so great, unless they have absolute no knowledge of the rap game.





Lol are you serious? You don't get to have longevity in the game if only cats from your hood think you're dope, especially coming from Jays era. The majority of hip hop heads think Jay has at least 3 classics (RD, Blueprint, Black Album) and on other forums I've seen people calling American Gangster a classic, this forum has always been heavily biased towards Jay Z, shit cats probably think Daz has a better discography.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2013, 04:20:40 AM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.



Yeah well rappers say a lot of things, most would quote (INSERT NAME HERE) as their favorite artist if it made them sound "credible" to rap nerds
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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2013, 04:47:30 AM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

for real . i like some albums but the man is ,if not a straight up biter , a follower
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2013, 04:55:47 AM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

for real . i like some albums but the man is ,if not a straight up biter , a follower

Yep, i cant think of anything he pioneered.

Im not saying you have to do that to be great, but people acting like hes a trendsetter are just cheerleading.
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bouli77

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2013, 09:00:38 AM »

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.


it wasn't Jay's idea to push Kanye but Damon Dash... Jay was reportedly very iffy about Kanye as a frontman, same for Cam'ron (who was already an established gold-selling artist), who was Dame's artist, this was just before things started to turn sour between Jay & Dame.

Quote
The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.

I didn't say he wasn't successful before 2002, and I didn't say that his most successful album wasn't before 2002. 2002 is when he started reaching his current "larger than life" rapper, when he became a household name for people, not just rap fan, not just music fan. when he started fucking Beyoncé, doing shit with Linkin Park, etc.

Pharell didn't blow up because of Jay-Z, he blew up because of Pharell. His sound was never associated with Jay-Z, and he wasn't from Jay's camp. he just happened to produce Jay's shit as he was blowing up, but he was already successful by then. Openly rapping about material things ? it ain't like rappers never boasted about their jewelry before him... most rappers did that shit even though Jay primarily rapped about that when he blew up in 96. You're crediting Jay with too many things homie, it sounds ridiculous sometimes. I have no bias, I love Jay, and I will never belittle or deny his business acumen and his rapping skills, I just don't think he is that much of a trendsetter rapwise (he is businesswise for sure), but he's good at mastering what's catching on at the moment. If you think about it there were mainly 5 moguls in his lane in the late 90's : P, Baby, Diddy, JD & Jay-Z. only 3 of them really lasted, and only Jay really evolved and was the only good rapper out of them.

I never threw his contribution under the bus, I agree with what Nik said

Quote
is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #66 on: January 02, 2013, 11:13:08 AM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #67 on: January 02, 2013, 04:08:32 PM »
Reasonable Doubt is Jay-Z's best album
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2013, 11:36:58 AM »
I always liked The Black Album best
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2013, 03:34:31 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2013, 04:27:00 PM »
my fav jay z albums:
kingdom come
the blueprint
reasonable doubt
black album

honorable mention:
blueprint 2
american gangster
in my lifetime vol.1
"Summa y'all #mediocres more worried bout my goings on than u is about ya own.... But that ain't none of my business so.....I'll just #SipTeaForKermit #ifitaintaboutdamoney #2sugarspleaseFollow," - T.I.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2013, 05:19:35 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.


lmao...thats a joke, if i've ever heard one. the dude who was responsible for the bay's biggest movement isn't a legendary icon? the man who popularized thizz and made a culture of it, hyphy innovator, responsible for half the bay area slang, etc. do u realize what kinda status mac dre is up north? he's literally what 2pac is to euros on this board up in the bay area. he's started way more trends than jay-z. if you walk into rasputin, they got pictures and posters of him everywhere, sell masks of him, bobble-heads, all sorts of shit. u got white girls at raves who listen to tiesto bustin thizz faces because of this guy. artists who never met the guy still use his name to sell their products....that is a legend. if u dont know that by now, brush up on your bay game.

tech n9ne is the biggest artist out of kansas city and basically put that entire city on the map on a national scale. he's the top selling independent artist of all time, and has done tours that puts the rest of the game to shame. he has a loyal following, as opposed to your typical fickle jay-z "flavor of the month" fan...he is an innovator of the machine-gun rapid fire flow, and tons of rappers have patterned their style after him...something u cant really say about jay-z. the guy might not be a global icon, but he put a whole city on the map and innovated a style, something jay-z has never done. legendary.

c-bo is largely responsible for putting sac-town on the map...he's not on the status of mac dre or tech n9ne in terms of popularity, but one could definitely argue he is a hip-hop legend, considering he's a founding father of an entire region and an innovator of mob music, which became a staple sound of norcal rap.


all these rappers have had more impact MUSICALLY than jay-z ever did. true trend-setters, in every sense of the word.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2013, 07:19:32 PM »
im honestly still not convinced or even slightly pursaded that this is Hov's best work.  He's offered us so much more than "Reasonable Doubt"
 

Remedy360

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2013, 07:47:59 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.


 do u realize what kinda status mac dre is up north? he's literally what 2pac is to euros on this board up in the bay area.



LOL, excellent analogy.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2013, 07:48:27 PM »
im honestly still not convinced or even slightly pursaded that this is Hov's best work.  He's offered us so much more than "Reasonable Doubt"

Thing is you don't have to be convinced of anything, it's an opinion and you don't have to be swayed.