Author Topic: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?  (Read 1575 times)

D-Nice

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2012, 03:54:27 PM »
Yeah I would have to go with his first album as well. Definitely as good or more superior singles on other albums but as a whole I go with RD.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2012, 04:24:52 AM »
I agree it's a default answer for people to say Reasonable Doubt is his best. He undoubtedly got better as time went on.

And for the person who said Jay dropped got singles but his albums never matched - you couldn't be farther from the truth. Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2012, 12:17:59 PM »
Those of us old enough to remember know that RD wasn't loved by fans or critics at the time.  It was a dope album, with some absolute classic songs.  However, a wack single (Aint No Nigga) and the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Great album, but the masses didn't think of it as classic until Jay basically started the campaign himself once Hard knock Life dropped. 

For the record, my two favorite Jay albums are Blueprint and TBA.

Jay was sharper lyrically on RD, but concept
Wise those two albums to me are better. Blueprint, with the soul samples
 Changed the game. 
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2012, 12:49:46 PM »
The Blueprint
Reasonable Doubt
The Black Album
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2012, 05:07:14 PM »
the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Respectfully disagree there. The gangsta element Rae and Nas had already capitalized on, no doubt.

I thought this brought more of a gangster point of view to the NY rap scene. Instead of running in niggas cribs with a mac 10 for a robbery, I thought he did a good job at articulating the stress and paranoia, vulnerability if you will that was missing from previous mafioso rap in the early nineties.

Cuban Linx and It Was Written were like two giant circuses filled with violence and grit, while Reasonable Doubt, in my opinion felt like an intimate conversation with a gangster somewhere at the top, looking back at the subject matter in Nas and Rae's worlds.

I'm not saying Reasonable Doubt was a better effort than the other two albums, but to me it is creatively different than them.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2012, 05:16:24 PM »
the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Respectfully disagree there. The gangsta element Rae and Nas had already capitalized on, no doubt.

I thought this brought more of a gangster point of view to the NY rap scene. Instead of running in niggas cribs with a mac 10 for a robbery, I thought he did a good job at articulating the stress and paranoia, vulnerability if you will that was missing from previous mafioso rap in the early nineties.

Cuban Linx and It Was Written were like two giant circuses filled with violence and grit, while Reasonable Doubt, in my opinion felt like an intimate conversation with a gangster somewhere at the top, looking back at the subject matter in Nas and Rae's worlds.

I'm not saying Reasonable Doubt was a better effort than the other two albums, but to me it is creatively different than them.
i can agree wit this.
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jeromechickenbone

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2012, 08:32:40 PM »
I agree it's a default answer for people to say Reasonable Doubt is his best. He undoubtedly got better as time went on.

And for the person who said Jay dropped got singles but his albums never matched - you couldn't be farther from the truth. Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

RD is classic, Blueprint is great, black album is his 3rd best and that one is really over rated. 4 really dope songs the rest were disappointing. In my lifetimes series all have some good songs, but the majority of those albums are skippers. Everything after black album is forgettable as hell. Still makes good singles but his albums aren't anything special. N's in Paris and Run this town are great singles and like I said, he's always been good at that.

When you consider his whole discog, the majority of it isn't nearly as good as people make it out to be.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2012, 08:46:46 PM »
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2012, 05:05:56 AM »
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.
 

King Of The Greater Los Angeles Area

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2012, 01:27:06 PM »
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.

weezy f baby

 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2012, 02:34:01 PM »
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.

Do we really have to explain to you how sales don't equate with quality in regards to hip hop?

Look, I love Jay's catalog. Saying it's the deepest in both quantity and quality is silly. Tons of rappers have put out way more material, and tons of rappers have put out more high quality records.

That being said, if you feel Jay is the pinnacle of quality in rap, so be it. That's your opinion and no one can take that from you, but you do have to admit that there are others who have done more in the game.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2012, 08:15:19 PM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:19:31 PM by Enigma »
 

BiggBoogaBiff

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2012, 05:56:14 AM »
^^^ even tho he's never been my personal fav i gotta admit.  Jay's track record is amazing
 

Blood$

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2012, 09:01:41 AM »
Jay-Z only has so many #1 albums because he/his label bought a bunch of copies in those first week sales... fact, but I won't go too far into that I don't wanna derail this thread lol
 

BiggBoogaBiff

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2012, 09:47:34 AM »
Nah i think its safe to say that Jay earned that.  He might've went a little big head claiming GOAT so early but looking back at it i think its safe to say he was right (from a Success point of view)
 

Sccit

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2012, 10:31:20 PM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 10:34:16 PM by NIKCC »
 

dubsmith_nz

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2012, 11:27:06 PM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

You said "done more in the game", out of those names noone has had as much influence as Jay over a 15 year period in hip hop. Jays been responsible for moving the culture in multiple ways, not to mention his label brought us Kanye, State Prop, Dipset, J Cole and he basically gave the game Rihanna.
 

Sccit

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2013, 12:13:17 AM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

You said "done more in the game", out of those names noone has had as much influence as Jay over a 15 year period in hip hop. Jays been responsible for moving the culture in multiple ways, not to mention his label brought us Kanye, State Prop, Dipset, J Cole and he basically gave the game Rihanna.


lol, dont fool yourself. jay-z might be more famous than all of em, but as far as substance goes, his catalogue is far from one of the bests in hip-hop. also, jay-z came in the game as a swagger-jacker ala the game. he's bitten more rhymes than anyone in hip-hop. now, as far as being a business-man/rapper, no one is touching jay, he's currently at the top. but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2013, 05:07:15 AM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

Quik came out 5 years before Jay and has 3 less albums than him. Quik has about 3 albums that hold a candle to Jay and that's about it.

Mac Dre, Tech N9ne, C-Bo, Del - I'm sorry they're just not in the same conversation even though I love Bo, Del and Tech. E-40 has a great catalogue, but he's dropped a lot of fluff the last 8 years. Can you honestly say his catalogue matches Jay's? I just don't agree. Your tastes in hip hop appear to be mostly west coast driven with some mid west horror-rap type. That's your forte, but nobody heralds albums from those guys as classics.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 05:12:11 AM »
Pac is my all-time favorite rapper, but only his last 3 of the first 5 (Me Against The World, All Eyez On Me, and Makaveli) top Jay's work. Realistically you can't compare them because Pac died only 5 years active in the game, and now we have Jay-Z on his third decade in the game and still on top.
 

bouli77

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 06:56:48 AM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.
 

Sccit

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 01:30:32 PM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

Quik came out 5 years before Jay and has 3 less albums than him. Quik has about 3 albums that hold a candle to Jay and that's about it.

Mac Dre, Tech N9ne, C-Bo, Del - I'm sorry they're just not in the same conversation even though I love Bo, Del and Tech. E-40 has a great catalogue, but he's dropped a lot of fluff the last 8 years. Can you honestly say his catalogue matches Jay's? I just don't agree. Your tastes in hip hop appear to be mostly west coast driven with some mid west horror-rap type. That's your forte, but nobody heralds albums from those guys as classics.


Again, Quik's first 5 albums shit on Jay's first 5...quality, not quantity.....Jay-Z is simply more popular, and thats where it ends. Tech N9ne and Del SLAUGHTER Jay when it comes to flat out rapping. C-Bo's shit goes way harder, Mac Dre dropped album after album of straight quality. lastly, if u think they haven't dropped classics and Jay-Z has, then ur just not a hip-hop purist. as a matter of fact, u sound like the typical mainstream hip-hop fan, cud.
 

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 02:28:31 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.

Out of all those albums, he has 1 classic and that was 16 years ago. He's had one great album and a few good ones since. That's it. There are many many artists with much better discogs even if they didn't put out as many.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2013, 02:44:12 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.
 

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 02:44:53 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?
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