Author Topic: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?  (Read 3436 times)

bouli77

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 05:56:48 AM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.
 

Sccit

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 12:30:32 PM »
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

Quik came out 5 years before Jay and has 3 less albums than him. Quik has about 3 albums that hold a candle to Jay and that's about it.

Mac Dre, Tech N9ne, C-Bo, Del - I'm sorry they're just not in the same conversation even though I love Bo, Del and Tech. E-40 has a great catalogue, but he's dropped a lot of fluff the last 8 years. Can you honestly say his catalogue matches Jay's? I just don't agree. Your tastes in hip hop appear to be mostly west coast driven with some mid west horror-rap type. That's your forte, but nobody heralds albums from those guys as classics.


Again, Quik's first 5 albums shit on Jay's first 5...quality, not quantity.....Jay-Z is simply more popular, and thats where it ends. Tech N9ne and Del SLAUGHTER Jay when it comes to flat out rapping. C-Bo's shit goes way harder, Mac Dre dropped album after album of straight quality. lastly, if u think they haven't dropped classics and Jay-Z has, then ur just not a hip-hop purist. as a matter of fact, u sound like the typical mainstream hip-hop fan, cud.

jeromechickenbone

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 01:28:31 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.

Out of all those albums, he has 1 classic and that was 16 years ago. He's had one great album and a few good ones since. That's it. There are many many artists with much better discogs even if they didn't put out as many.
 

dubsmith_nz

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2013, 01:44:12 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.
 

Russell Bell

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2013, 01:44:53 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?
Money like Draymond Green.....yuuup
 

BiggBoogaBiff

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2013, 03:34:18 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
 

Enigma

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2013, 05:29:00 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.
 

dubsmith_nz

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2013, 05:36:31 PM »
^^^ This guy gets it.
 

Blood$

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2013, 05:37:46 PM »
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
 

Remedy360

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2013, 06:42:22 PM »
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

This, Jay definitely has some great stuff, but I just can't see him in the same light as other great MC's.
 

Hack Wilson - real

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2013, 07:51:49 PM »
only Jay Z stans will tell you his discog is great


it is what it is...a few dope albums early (Reasonable being the best but Vol 2 had some bangers too) and some heavily over rated records that sold a lot so therefore they must be "classic" or else you should be labeled a Jigga hater lol



I got a lot of Jay songs on my ipod  (more than most rappers) but his entire discography is pretty boring toward the end
 

Sccit

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2013, 08:10:09 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

Hack Wilson - real

Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2013, 08:20:11 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.


NIK has always shown love to Necro and Non Phixion
 

Enigma

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2013, 10:41:52 PM »
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.
 

Enigma

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Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2013, 11:17:06 PM »
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.