Author Topic: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters  (Read 1066 times)

Will_B

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 11:17:10 AM »
By your response you think it's ok to generally let mentally handicapped people have free access to guns.

No, my response is saying that to me you're a fool for thinking that only the mentally handicapped who are (somehow) related to gun owners are responsible for gun shootings.
It's not just the mentally handicapped who commit all those shootings, a lot of the time they're average folks that just break down and lose their minds. I've heard, read and seen many stories where people close to the criminals, like their family members or friends, say they'd never thought (insert criminal's name here) could do such a horrible act and that they appeared to be normal everyday citizens.
Plus there's this thing called the black market, everyone has access to a gun there.

No Iveus I gave just one example off the dome of legislation that could've saved 26 innocent lives last year alone.

But you read it as 'I WANT TO TAKE ALL THE GUNS FROM AMERICA'

You never mentioned the part about 26 innocent lives that could've been saved last year.
Just like you never mentioned why you love generic gangsta rap which glorifies guns to a point where it's pure fiction yet demand that guns be taken away in a country that you don't even live in.

Let's break it down a bit.

We are supporters of the 2nd Amendment, which means you can't restrict gun rights. At the same time, you pick on Gangsta Rap, ironically enough of a Westcoast Rap forum. Also, Gangsta Rap has been dead for a while, BUT Rap Music is protected under the 1st Amendment. So your argument is irrelevant. You can't take away one right just to protect another.

It's less academic than that. Dude was claiming I can't have an opinion on guns simply because I like Gangsta music.
 

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 11:56:20 AM »
By your response you think it's ok to generally let mentally handicapped people have free access to guns.

No, my response is saying that to me you're a fool for thinking that only the mentally handicapped who are (somehow) related to gun owners are responsible for gun shootings.
It's not just the mentally handicapped who commit all those shootings, a lot of the time they're average folks that just break down and lose their minds. I've heard, read and seen many stories where people close to the criminals, like their family members or friends, say they'd never thought (insert criminal's name here) could do such a horrible act and that they appeared to be normal everyday citizens.
Plus there's this thing called the black market, everyone has access to a gun there.

No Iveus I gave just one example off the dome of legislation that could've saved 26 innocent lives last year alone.

But you read it as 'I WANT TO TAKE ALL THE GUNS FROM AMERICA'

You never mentioned the part about 26 innocent lives that could've been saved last year.
Just like you never mentioned why you love generic gangsta rap which glorifies guns to a point where it's pure fiction yet demand that guns be taken away in a country that you don't even live in.

Let's break it down a bit.

We are supporters of the 2nd Amendment, which means you can't restrict gun rights. At the same time, you pick on Gangsta Rap, ironically enough of a Westcoast Rap forum. Also, Gangsta Rap has been dead for a while, BUT Rap Music is protected under the 1st Amendment. So your argument is irrelevant. You can't take away one right just to protect another.

It's less academic than that. Dude was claiming I can't have an opinion on guns simply because I like Gangsta music.

LOL... OH WOW! Oh well... That's funny on a Westcoast Rap board, where people come together to talk about, you know, Gangsta music... hahahaha
 

virtuoso

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 03:04:10 PM »

MDogg why do you try and rationalise something which wasn't there? is it so you can convince yourself that things are better than what I am portraying? I never said they would try and take the guns in one fell swoop in the dead of night did I? You are creating a straw man from the fundamental point I made concerning the fact that YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS, at least according to these criminal laws. Everything is done piece meal, you will be gently acclimated into this new normal and before too long your stance will have altered, softened, as you stray further away from the ground in which you held. As for the premise of my original post, the fact that none of these gun control fans has even addressed what I wrote, speaks volumes to the irony.

 

J. B A N A N A S

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 06:12:07 PM »
Also, Gangsta Rap has been dead for a while

Whoa pal, don't you dare tell dubcc that.
 

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 11:19:38 PM »

MDogg why do you try and rationalise something which wasn't there? is it so you can convince yourself that things are better than what I am portraying? I never said they would try and take the guns in one fell swoop in the dead of night did I? You are creating a straw man from the fundamental point I made concerning the fact that YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS, at least according to these criminal laws. Everything is done piece meal, you will be gently acclimated into this new normal and before too long your stance will have altered, softened, as you stray further away from the ground in which you held. As for the premise of my original post, the fact that none of these gun control fans has even addressed what I wrote, speaks volumes to the irony.



Look at who suppliers gun control here, Europeans. They can't reply because they don't know the whole Story, but I do. Which is why it always comes down to us.

You say its piece meal, but I tell you that you are wrong. There is no way the government can keep that up. The government changes to much. But the greatest threat to freedom is the very thing we are communicating with. You see, the internet is the greatest way to track people. It's amazing what the government could do when they finally convince Google to gain access to their data. Guns are the last thing you need to worry about, the establishment could careless about your guns, they want your privacy. They can pick off people, but they can't win a war against its own people.
 

Russell Bell

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 11:31:20 PM »
So Will how do we decide who has a mental problem great enough to do what youre talking about.  Who decides, at what point, we begin to restrict people's fundamental rights based upon a supposition.  I think you could see how thats a slippery slope to consider going down. This is a nation that uses precedents in court to decide how our rights are interpreted, that kind of decision would greatly restrict all rights, not just in the arena of gun rights.
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MistaNova

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 01:38:41 AM »
LOL... OH WOW! Oh well... That's funny on a Westcoast Rap board, where people come together to talk about, you know, Gangsta music... hahahaha

I can't remember the last time I read a thread on DUBCC that was about westcoast hip hop that's not in some way or form gangsta music.
You know them Euros only wanna talk about them Dogg Pound Gangstas or 2Pacs... hahahaha
 

Sikotic™

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 01:45:14 AM »
How about being required to provide evidence of safer storage of guns and amunition when you have a mentally handicapped person living in your care?


C'mon guys, it's not rocket science ;)
Yes, let's force everyone to cater to a particular scenario that occurs 0.001% of the time.That's efficient governing, right?
And how do you expect an already bankrupt government to pay people to go into hundreds of millions of homes to inspect their gun security?

I dont have the figues, but im guessing there arent hundreds of millions of households with mentally handicapped people living in, in America.

Be serious for a minute here
That was a serious question you just ignored.
 

Will_B

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 01:46:28 AM »
So Will how do we decide who has a mental problem great enough to do what youre talking about.  Who decides, at what point, we begin to restrict people's fundamental rights based upon a supposition.  I think you could see how thats a slippery slope to consider going down. This is a nation that uses precedents in court to decide how our rights are interpreted, that kind of decision would greatly restrict all rights, not just in the arena of gun rights.

You want me to give your nation the ideas and the solutions? Does a Euro have to do everything himself? :laugh:


Nah I'd imagine if your kids registered 'special needs' on your local healthcare database (however the fuck you do it there) that could get flagged up when applying for a firearms licence. Someone from the local council or police makes a call to check you got a gun safe and store the keys and ammunition separately and out of reach of the kid.

If this saves 1 life its worth it in the long run.
 

Will_B

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 01:50:05 AM »
How about being required to provide evidence of safer storage of guns and amunition when you have a mentally handicapped person living in your care?


C'mon guys, it's not rocket science ;)
Yes, let's force everyone to cater to a particular scenario that occurs 0.001% of the time.That's efficient governing, right?
And how do you expect an already bankrupt government to pay people to go into hundreds of millions of homes to inspect their gun security?

I dont have the figues, but im guessing there arent hundreds of millions of households with mentally handicapped people living in, in America.

Be serious for a minute here
That was a serious question you just ignored.

Don't bullshit :D
 

Sikotic™

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 01:56:53 AM »
Those new laws proposed don't do jack shit to stop a mass shooting or prevent a "criminal" from possessing a gun.

The only thing that law does is further restrict the responsible gun owner. They get punished for everyone else's transgressions.

So what was the purpose of this law then if it wasn't to further restrict the 2nd amendment?

By an unwritten rule I don't debate Sik, but I will just this once.

The law does nothing to restrict current gun owners and it does everything to restrict future gun owners. With 300 million guns in position and 360 million people, we may have to rethink who is buying guns. The number of gun owners are actually going down, but the number of guns bought is going up. Meaning those that own guns are buying more. My father owns between 15-20 guns, if that is not over kill I don't know what is.

The gradual take away of the 2nd amendment also can't happen even within 2-3 generations. There is way too much to take away. The only way the 2nd amendment can be taken away is to either rewrite the constitution, which would NEVER happen, or an all out civil war, which the American government knows it will lose. There are more armed people than soldiers, there are more former vets than current military personal and there are more guns in position of American citizens hands than in the position of the military. The 2nd Amendment is so strong in the US that there is no way in the world it can be fazed out by "the powers that be" within 2-3 generations. There are also millions of illegally own guns in the inner cities. Like Immortal Technique said, there will be war on the streets. Unless that kind of drastic measures are taken, your guns are safe. And these laws don't punish you. It only puts into place laws that should have not been taken out.

As for who is America's real criminal, check out this link. I think there is something to this. What does it mean, I'm not sure. But it is a very interesting read.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline
That is an interesting article.

And even if the law limits future gun owners, it's still pointless.

It still does nothing to limit illegal gun ownership. And it will do nothing to prevent another mass shooting, which is the initial event that lead to these new laws.

So if these laws are not there to limit criminal gun possession or to prevent further mass shooting tragedies, what is it's real purpose other than to restrict the 2nd amendment to those who are law abiding and responsible gun owners? Personally, I'll take a person with 15-20 guns who is law abiding and responsible with his weapons over some thug or nutcase with just a single gun. The majority of registered gun owners are not the problem, and the new laws proposed only target them. Simply put, the laws won't fix anything. It's just a diversion to make it look like Obama is actually doing something.
 

Sikotic™

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 02:03:42 AM »
How about being required to provide evidence of safer storage of guns and amunition when you have a mentally handicapped person living in your care?


C'mon guys, it's not rocket science ;)
Yes, let's force everyone to cater to a particular scenario that occurs 0.001% of the time.That's efficient governing, right?
And how do you expect an already bankrupt government to pay people to go into hundreds of millions of homes to inspect their gun security?

I dont have the figues, but im guessing there arent hundreds of millions of households with mentally handicapped people living in, in America.

Be serious for a minute here
That was a serious question you just ignored.

Don't bullshit :D
No seriously: you want the government to inspect the homes of gun owners that have mentally unstable people living under their roofs.

Well, how do you intend on making that a reality? Hire thousands of inspectors on the government's dime when the government is trillions of dollars in debt? How are you going to convince gun owners to allow inspectors into theirs homes without a warrant? Do you propose that hundreds of millions of warrants be issued? How many judges and how much MORE money will that cost the taxpayers?

Not to mention what Russell Bell said above. And on top of that, the issue of discrimination that will ultimately come up from gun owners who happened to have a handicapped child or family member living with them.

Please, discuss your plans with us, President Will lol.
 

Will_B

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2013, 02:49:26 AM »
How about being required to provide evidence of safer storage of guns and amunition when you have a mentally handicapped person living in your care?


C'mon guys, it's not rocket science ;)
Yes, let's force everyone to cater to a particular scenario that occurs 0.001% of the time.That's efficient governing, right?
And how do you expect an already bankrupt government to pay people to go into hundreds of millions of homes to inspect their gun security?

I dont have the figues, but im guessing there arent hundreds of millions of households with mentally handicapped people living in, in America.

Be serious for a minute here
That was a serious question you just ignored.

Don't bullshit :D
No seriously: you want the government to inspect the homes of gun owners that have mentally unstable people living under their roofs.

Well, how do you intend on making that a reality? Hire thousands of inspectors on the government's dime when the government is trillions of dollars in debt? How are you going to convince gun owners to allow inspectors into theirs homes without a warrant? Do you propose that hundreds of millions of warrants be issued? How many judges and how much MORE money will that cost the taxpayers?

Not to mention what Russell Bell said above. And on top of that, the issue of discrimination that will ultimately come up from gun owners who happened to have a handicapped child or family member living with them.

Please, discuss your plans with us, President Will lol.


Here's the thing I can't help you with.


If you live in the UK and your child is unlucky enough have a handicap, the system is set up to help a parent through support from our health service, care workers, grants to subsidise adapting your home or car etc, physiotherapy, free classes for the parents, home visits, welfare benefits, tax breaks, education support, the welfare of the parent too etc etc.

The idea of a parent of such a child asking for a warrant for any official to enter their home is an alien concept. thats just being real. No BS
 

bouli77

Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2013, 09:02:14 AM »

MDogg why do you try and rationalise something which wasn't there? is it so you can convince yourself that things are better than what I am portraying? I never said they would try and take the guns in one fell swoop in the dead of night did I? You are creating a straw man from the fundamental point I made concerning the fact that YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS, at least according to these criminal laws. Everything is done piece meal, you will be gently acclimated into this new normal and before too long your stance will have altered, softened, as you stray further away from the ground in which you held. As for the premise of my original post, the fact that none of these gun control fans has even addressed what I wrote, speaks volumes to the irony.



Look at who suppliers gun control here, Europeans. They can't reply because they don't know the whole Story, but I do. Which is why it always comes down to us.

You say its piece meal, but I tell you that you are wrong. There is no way the government can keep that up. The government changes to much. But the greatest threat to freedom is the very thing we are communicating with. You see, the internet is the greatest way to track people. It's amazing what the government could do when they finally convince Google to gain access to their data. Guns are the last thing you need to worry about, the establishment could careless about your guns, they want your privacy. They can pick off people, but they can't win a war against its own people.

+1, thank you
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2013, 09:12:51 AM »
Those new laws proposed don't do jack shit to stop a mass shooting or prevent a "criminal" from possessing a gun.

The only thing that law does is further restrict the responsible gun owner. They get punished for everyone else's transgressions.

So what was the purpose of this law then if it wasn't to further restrict the 2nd amendment?

By an unwritten rule I don't debate Sik, but I will just this once.

The law does nothing to restrict current gun owners and it does everything to restrict future gun owners. With 300 million guns in position and 360 million people, we may have to rethink who is buying guns. The number of gun owners are actually going down, but the number of guns bought is going up. Meaning those that own guns are buying more. My father owns between 15-20 guns, if that is not over kill I don't know what is.

The gradual take away of the 2nd amendment also can't happen even within 2-3 generations. There is way too much to take away. The only way the 2nd amendment can be taken away is to either rewrite the constitution, which would NEVER happen, or an all out civil war, which the American government knows it will lose. There are more armed people than soldiers, there are more former vets than current military personal and there are more guns in position of American citizens hands than in the position of the military. The 2nd Amendment is so strong in the US that there is no way in the world it can be fazed out by "the powers that be" within 2-3 generations. There are also millions of illegally own guns in the inner cities. Like Immortal Technique said, there will be war on the streets. Unless that kind of drastic measures are taken, your guns are safe. And these laws don't punish you. It only puts into place laws that should have not been taken out.

As for who is America's real criminal, check out this link. I think there is something to this. What does it mean, I'm not sure. But it is a very interesting read.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline
That is an interesting article.

And even if the law limits future gun owners, it's still pointless.

It still does nothing to limit illegal gun ownership. And it will do nothing to prevent another mass shooting, which is the initial event that lead to these new laws.

So if these laws are not there to limit criminal gun possession or to prevent further mass shooting tragedies, what is it's real purpose other than to restrict the 2nd amendment to those who are law abiding and responsible gun owners? Personally, I'll take a person with 15-20 guns who is law abiding and responsible with his weapons over some thug or nutcase with just a single gun. The majority of registered gun owners are not the problem, and the new laws proposed only target them. Simply put, the laws won't fix anything. It's just a diversion to make it look like Obama is actually doing something.

Illegal gun owners are the problem. My dad owning 15-20 guns is not the problem. But those are things you can't control. There are things you can control, and that's future gun owners. I personally want to see them prove they can handle a gun before they have a gun. You see too many people own guns who don't respect them. You know what liberals love about gun owners, the fact that stories like these are not in shortage.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/gun-show-shootings_n_2568134.html

My thing is, I somewhat agree on the starting of regulations on gun owners. In reality you can't address the real problem without years of research on illegal guns and mental health issues. But you can stop idiots from getting their hands on more guns.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2013, 01:06:41 PM »

You just invalidated your rebuttal with There is no way the government can keep that up. The government changes to much

This is one of those moments where you are looking to rationalise again while ignoring how the NDAA actually went from being a criminal prlonoposal to a criminal law.

So let me remind you......the congress and the senate both unanimously voted in favour of tearing up people's rights i.e. endorse the dictatorial route.

Now this blows out of the water the very cumbersome attempts to blame it on the liberals or the left, or the right.

They are unanimously criminal scum, either through blackmail, witting accomplices, or they rationalise it in their own minds as well they are all scum who have sold their soul, so why shouldn't I get mine?
 

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2013, 01:54:20 PM »
What you are failing to miss is that the NDAA is an annual bill. It has to come up every year for debate because it cannot be permit law. Every two years, in theory, government changes. Right now, instead of focusing on guns, because that's not an issue that can truly be dealt with for a few generations, we should be fighting against the NDAA. So every year when the NDAA comes up, it's up to us to get the people against it. You know who even knows about the NDAA, the tin foil heads. People don't want to listen to them. When you are against something by putting a picture of Obama as Hitler, you are not going to get much positive response. You know what about the NDAA, it will come up again at the end of the year, and at the end of the year it is up to the people to find a true way to move people against it.

Let me put it this way, Martin Luther King and Malcolm X are connected in many people's mind because they were black leaders. But they had a different way of going about their business. At the end, Malcolm was killed by the Nation of Islam because he was a threat to them. Martin was killed by the United States government, because he was a true threat to them. Malcolm thought he was a threat, the same way many libertarians think they are a threat. But people don't see them as a threat, because the movement looks like a put of conspiracy theorist. Now lets take a look at Martin, Martin was a true threat because he changed people's hearts and minds. He was able to focus the attention of the people onto the issues he wanted. Martin eventually turned his attention to going anti-War and workers rights. His movement was successful and becoming bigger. Eventually he was killed as he was getting to important. Right now the Libertarian movement is more Malcolm than Martin, it's only a real threat to the Republican Party and not the US government it's self.

I agree with many things you say, but your tactics will not get anything done.
 

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2013, 09:04:55 PM »
I find the clinging to guns insane and unnecessary. If the people truly did rise up and started winning, the Feds would have absolutely no qualms with nuking their own people. That's why I support California becoming our own nation in theory, but not in practice. The Feds would kill us all and make it seem like it was the right thing to do.

At the same time I don't support gun control, for the same reason I don't support abortion controls or drug laws or anti-gambling/prostitution laws. Just because you make something illegal does NOT make it go away. It's better to keep it legal but regulated.
 

Russell Bell

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013, 11:28:24 PM »
I find the clinging to guns insane and unnecessary. If the people truly did rise up and started winning, the Feds would have absolutely no qualms with nuking their own people. That's why I support California becoming our own nation in theory, but not in practice. The Feds would kill us all and make it seem like it was the right thing to do.

At the same time I don't support gun control, for the same reason I don't support abortion controls or drug laws or anti-gambling/prostitution laws. Just because you make something illegal does NOT make it go away. It's better to keep it legal but regulated.

holy shit that'd be a disaster.

we are a wreck.
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Sami

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013, 11:45:00 PM »
Not true anymore. The deficit is gone.
 

Will_B

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2013, 02:54:16 AM »
Just because you make something illegal does NOT make it go away. It's better to keep it legal but regulated.

But 'gun control' as you're calling it, would be legal but more regulated.

Just think about guns in the same context as what you're saying for drugs.


Funny how pro gun groups being very paranoid about regulations, but this guy above is being very open minded about drugs, and prostitution. Why is it a good move to legalise (but regulate) drugs and prostitutes, but to do the same with guns an unthinkable act?

Food for thought
 

Russell Bell

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 10:05:55 AM »
Not true anymore. The deficit is gone.

businesses are leaving this state every hour.

school system is fucked.

jobs are nonexistent in some places.

i stand by my statement.
Money like Draymond Green.....yuuup
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2013, 10:40:50 AM »
Just remember this about California, it took years and years of bad governing for it to get there.

From Pete Wilson blaming everything on immigration and not fixing the economy, while also taking money from the schools, to Grey Davis putting the state in debt trying to save the schools, to Arnold basically fucking the state over in every way possible, to now Jerry Brown finally balancing the budget but cutting services and ending all the business deals that usually keep business in the state. California has been going down hill since 1990 when Pete Wilson was elected. But I will say that California seems to be making a comeback and could be a top economical force again within the next 10 years. But it will take that long for the state to recover.
 

Sami

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2013, 04:20:39 PM »
Not true anymore. The deficit is gone.

businesses are leaving this state every hour.

school system is fucked.

jobs are nonexistent in some places.

i stand by my statement.

All of your statements have been said for decades by people that want no schools at all except private schools and no regulations whatsoever on their businesses. They will keep repeating that no matter what the government of our state actually does in the meantime. I disagree with you completely, however I respect your opinion.
 

Russell Bell

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Re: Don't you find it ironic that many gun control supporters
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2013, 07:36:05 PM »
Not true anymore. The deficit is gone.

businesses are leaving this state every hour.

school system is fucked.

jobs are nonexistent in some places.

i stand by my statement.

All of your statements have been said for decades by people that want no schools at all except private schools and no regulations whatsoever on their businesses. They will keep repeating that no matter what the government of our state actually does in the meantime. I disagree with you completely, however I respect your opinion.

Those arent partisan statements.  They are just observations of things that are actually happening (facts). 

California is consistently one of the worst business friendly states in the union.

Our schools are absolutely horrible, and if you dont work in them, you really have no idea.

And unemployment is higher here than the rest of the nation.
Money like Draymond Green.....yuuup