Author Topic: Genetically Modified Plants  (Read 850 times)

Fraxxx

Genetically Modified Plants
« on: October 30, 2013, 09:44:26 AM »
I just read something on Reddit and was assuming that the participants in the discussion would be rather critical of GM food (it's Reddit, after all). I read quite a bit and virtually every single comment was in favor of GM food.

I found it very strange that seemingly nobody had any knowledge about how the whole thing at least MIGHT give reason for concern.

So since DubCC obviously is a far superior community in terms of knowledge and critical thinking, I'm interested in some opinions on that matter.
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Aladin

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 02:35:44 AM »
Oke here  is my point of view

I will not deal with the spirtual side of it.

I will only deal with facts.

First we have 2 establish what is GMO.
In short they alter the DNA of seeds.

How do they do that?

Well if the string of the DNA is ABC

And they want 2 add a certain aspect in it with is not present in the natural form: we call that one D.

So what they do.

You got ABC

And they try 2 modify it by putting a D in between:
ABDC


What they discovered. That when they do that. The String (ABDC) would not last. It would break and form ABC again.

The scientific solution for that is this:
They use antibiotics  as a glue. That way  the String will not break.

That is right people, you have been fed antibiotics every time you eat GMO food.
And we are asking ourself why is it that antibiotics don't have the same effect anymore.


That is one aspect.

The second.
If you Fraxx are a farmer. And you decide 2 plant wheat. No one is stopping you.
No-one has the patent on wheat or apples or oranges.
Right. that would be ridiculous.

Wrong: the seeds that they modify are patented. Meaning you need a license 2 grow them.
And if you by accident mix their seed with your seed. You need 2 pay up or burn your seeds.
Look at this poor American farmer. Do you really think he can win from the big cooperations.


There was another case of a farmer I can not find it. But that farmer did not buy GMO. But the farmers around him had GMO. And ofcourse in an natural way (wind) some seeds of wheat mixed with his seeds.
He had 2 burn his entire natural seeds. Which he used for generations.


I can go into the fact that they can put an enddate in seeds. Like after three harvests it will no longer grow.
So that you become dependent.
Yes that is right.
We throw away our natural seeds who for thousands of years has fed us. 2 become dependent on these patented GMO.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/07/food-ark/food-variety-graphic

And there is a health issue.. but I don't expand on that. I let others have that oppertunity.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:28:34 AM by Aladin »
 

Fraxxx

Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 09:00:28 AM »

The second.
If you Fraxx are a farmer. And you decide 2 plant wheat. No one is stopping you.
No-one has the patent on wheat or apples or oranges.
Right. that would be ridiculous.

Wrong: the seeds that they modify are patented. Meaning you need a license 2 grow them.
And if you by accident mix their seed with your seed. You need 2 pay up or burn your seeds.
Look at this poor American farmer. Do you really think he can win from the big cooperations.


There was another case of a farmer I can not find it. But that farmer did not buy GMO. But the farmers around him had GMO. And ofcourse in an natural way (wind) some seeds of wheat mixed with his seeds.
He had 2 burn his entire natural seeds. Which he used for generations.


I can go into the fact that they can put an enddate in seeds. Like after three harvests it will no longer grow.
So that you become dependent.
Yes that is right.
We throw away our natural seeds who for thousands of years has fed us. 2 become dependent on these patented GMO.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/07/food-ark/food-variety-graphic


Exactly my thoughts. You can sum it up as: Even if it's not some kind of evil plan for domination but "only" maximization of profits, in the end those corporations like Monsanto will have the whole world on a stranglehold because they legally own what everyone sows and can dictate the terms on which you're allowed to do that. You can already see this in India, South America and even the US like you said.

Gonna write something more on that later.
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Aladin

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 12:55:08 PM »

Exactly my thoughts. You can sum it up as: Even if it's not some kind of evil plan for domination but "only" maximization of profits, in the end those corporations like Monsanto will have the whole world on a stranglehold because they legally own what everyone sows and can dictate the terms on which you're allowed to do that. You can already see this in India, South America and even the US like you said.

Gonna write something more on that later.

Well that is exactly the point. Their goal is to get as much profit as they can, but they dress it up like they want 2 end the starvation.
Look they are not interested in your health or worried about your choice. They are only interested what is in your wallet.

If history is a lesson. Remember that there was a time that the Tobacco industry denied there were any healthrisks for smoking.
Even though all the doctors new that lungs turned black as coal.
They kept their mouth shut because of all the medical research that 'proofed' that is was not a risk. (Financed by the same Tobacco Industry)

Like now logic and reason will tell you that all that Wifi, GPS  and mobile antennes radiation around you 24/7  is not healthy.

Decades later they will look at us like we look at the people who believed in the 50's that smoking is not a health Risk, as stupid. How could they believe that?

 

Fraxxx

Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 06:01:00 AM »
Off topic but one of my favourite recent moves was when they convinced China that it would be a great idea to serve Chinese students school milk for better nutritional supply - to a people that mostly can't properly digest milk.

They are literally paying for diarrhea! :D
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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 11:17:39 AM »
My view. Those that the control the food have the ultimate foot on humanities neck. We are kicking ourselves if people who can control food and then patient it wouldn't use that to their advantage.


Gonna write something more on that later.

The 2050, we might think like that about GMO's, IF humanity is exposed to the truth.


One thing we must remember, controlling the food is more powerful than controlling oil or any other resource other than water and air.

Look at how the US's influence in Mexico has caused much of our own problems with immigration.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/02/01/107871/free-trade-us-corn-flows-south.html

A short recap, we import corn to Mexico for cheap (most of our corn is GMO corn and it is highly subsidized by our government). Farmers in Mexico go out of business and the laborers who use to work those fields follow the yellow brick road to the United States to work the farms here. The US now controls Mexico's food and we take their labor force.
 

virtuoso

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 12:54:32 PM »

Well, let's deal with the morality of this first, everyone has been unknowingly fed gm food. Furthermore we were forced into doing so, in a financial sense too, whilst there are organic alternatives available they are still expensive and if you go back 10 years, they were incredibly expensive. Secondly there are few products which can be considered to be gm free, just to illustrate this, let's take one staple product of milk. The milk can be advertised as being organic but that is only on the basis that the milk itself is not the product of being genetically modified, but this does not extend to the foods which the cow has fed on gm maize being the prime example.

Secondly I became intent on understanding more about this new phenomenon and watched a so called intellectual debate but what was telling about this debate was the fact that the proponents of this technology stated that whilst we should not let this hold back the technology, yes, there was the potential for unknown effects within the human body after a period of incubation. I was alarmed at such an admission because it confirms that human beings are being used as unwitting guinea pigs, therefore we have to consider what will the impact of this be on human beings not just in the current generations but what will be passed on through the genes.

I have read the propaganda of the proponents write their hit pieces against opponents of this technology and one of the first rebuttals they will make is that there is no substantiated cases where there have been adverse effects to gm food. These are sly bastards because as they well know, with humans being subjected to so many poisons, yes, it is indeed hard to substantiate what has been the direct cause of gm food. However here is what we do know, the cancer rates continue to rise and are now going into overdrive and interestingly and tellingly, there has not been a confirmed date of when this technology actually entered the food chain.

However let's put this in basic terms, genes from different gene pools are being spliced together, when this foreign entity is introduced to the body, the body sees it as being an enemy, which causes an auto immune response to be initiated. This is of course just my take on what is occurring, but there has certainly been a mass surge in auto immune diseases and yet each time this continues to increase, there is a statement of bewilderment on the part of the medical community.

We are seeing a mass rise in intolerance to x food, but what is causing that intolerance? I would suggest that gm by it's very nature is causing that intolerance. I would further suggest that the auto immune response is causing the immune system to be burned out at a younger age which is the reason why the average life expectancy is beginning to fall incrementally.
What we also understand from the many articles which have been written on it is that products like roundup have spawned a whole slew of weeds resistant to the application, causing the need to use more pesticide not less.
We then need to look at the insidious relationship between Monsanto and several members of the U.S government and recognise that there is a major conflict of interest here. However then we see how these tentacles are stretching out all across the west and I am reminded of a conversation I had with a Polish friend of mine a few years and she recalled how her father (back in Poland) ten years had stated that the powers that be would attempt to wreck the populations of the west/europe with gm foods and at the time she dismissed it.
Now with there being such intimate links between politics and Monsanto we are in a position where there is no outlet for protection, there is no oversight.

The emotional blackmail....This is based on the premise that there is not enough food to feed the growing demands of the world using traditional methods but that crop yields are so much better using gm. However numerous studies have indicated that yields are far poorer than what was sold to the public and moreover it's a falsehood to suggest that the world is starving to death (the third world) because there is not enough food. Indeed there is mass food production and mass wastage too, those that starve to death are too poor to purchase the food necessary to sustain themselves. Yes, there are natural disasters which affect the crop output, but it's a lack of means which is killing people.

At an instinctive level whatever this group of sociopathic, psychopathic evil is in support of I am naturally questioning what is the agenda. The main catalyst for this was when then a highly respected british scientist was asked if he would feel comfortable feeding his family gm foods and he said no. What followed was to my mind an unprecedented media and political attack on him. He was lambasted for his views, derided, attacked from every corner, it was a total character assassination in which the media decided to play the part not as the moderator but as the cheerleader.

Some people will say but that's what the science says......there are 2 elements to that, the are the media presenting a fair and balanced case, or are they choosing which scientists they want to present to the public, but the second thing is are said scientists using their knowledge to inform you, or to deceive you? You have to ask yourself what does someone who knows they are going to be black balled, ostracised, destroyed for going against the group think going to gain from it other than give you their honest concerned take vs those who will massively benefit financially and indeed those who hold a sociopathic view of humanity.
 

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 04:07:22 PM »
CNN posted an article today briefly mentioning some states trying to fight back against GMOs. They even mention Monsanto.

Quote
Voters in Washington State are considering a hotly contested initiative that would require labeling all foods containing genetically-modified ingredients. The measure pits local consumer advocates, who argue that the measure is needed for consumers to make better informed choices, against large agribusinesses such as Monsanto, which argue that such a law would spook potential customers and unfairly imply that such products are unsafe.

Washington is the second state to consider such a ballot measure. A similar proposal was narrowly rejected by California voters last year.

According to the non-partisan National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL), 95 bills relating to the issue have been introduced in state legislatures so far this year -- a reflection of growing public interest in the controversy surrounding genetically modified foods.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/04/politics/2013-ballot-measures/index.html?hpt=po_t1
 

J. B A N A N A S

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 06:06:17 PM »
I'd like a conclusive piece of research that states GMO's will harm you in no uncertain terms.

And I'm voting no on 522. I loathe Monsanto but I'm not letting that be the deciding factor whether I support a bad piece of legislation or not.
 

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 09:18:11 PM »
There are some very limited studies talking about the harms of GMO foods, but mostly studies have only been released by Monsanto talking about the benefits of GMO. But the studies follow the money and the money is on the side of Monsanto. So take any study with a grain of salt. Most recent study I can find was from 2000 and it wasn't really a study. But it did address what was said earlier, GMO's are what's causing things like peanut allergies and other allergies to foods that humans have never had.

http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/gmfood/overview.php

Quote
Human health risks

Allergenicity    Many children in the US and Europe have developed life-threatening allergies to peanuts and other foods. There is a possibility that introducing a gene into a plant may create a new allergen or cause an allergic reaction in susceptible individuals. A proposal to incorporate a gene from Brazil nuts into soybeans was abandoned because of the fear of causing unexpected allergic reactions31. Extensive testing of GM foods may be required to avoid the possibility of harm to consumers with food allergies. Labeling of GM foods and food products will acquire new importance, which I shall discuss later.
Unknown effects on human health   There is a growing concern that introducing foreign genes into food plants may have an unexpected and negative impact on human health. A recent article published in Lancet examined the effects of GM potatoes on the digestive tract in rats32, 33. This study claimed that there were appreciable differences in the intestines of rats fed GM potatoes and rats fed unmodified potatoes. Yet critics say that this paper, like the monarch butterfly data, is flawed and does not hold up to scientific scrutiny34. Moreover, the gene introduced into the potatoes was a snowdrop flower lectin, a substance known to be toxic to mammals. The scientists who created this variety of potato chose to use the lectin gene simply to test the methodology, and these potatoes were never intended for human or animal consumption.
On the whole, with the exception of possible allergenicity, scientists believe that GM foods do not present a risk to human health.
 

V2DHeart

Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 03:17:34 AM »
Forget voting. That is the problem right there. Feeling you have to "vote" for what should essentially be a fundamental right already. You want to make a difference?

Then how about this:


Hungary Destroys All Monsanto GMO Corn Fields



http://www.realfarmacy.com/hungary-destroys-all-monsanto-gmo-corn-fields/


The government are already apart of Monsanto. Voting is utterly useless, unless you use what funds you have to create your own food
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/GsGVS-XIm7s" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/GsGVS-XIm7s</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/HaH1tquKmzE" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/HaH1tquKmzE</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BJB9lz01vCo" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/BJB9lz01vCo</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/N8vC1o2WggI" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/N8vC1o2WggI</a>
 

Aladin

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 02:11:42 AM »
Burning other peoples property is still wrong in mine opinion.

Two wrongs don't make it Right.


That said:

I told you people wil not win on Macro level.

http://rt.com/usa/washington-no-gmo-labeling-282/

http://rt.com/usa/washington-lawsuit-gmo-label-288/

The oldest trick in the book: Follow the money....
 

virtuoso

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Re: Genetically Modified Plants
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 12:41:53 AM »
I would encourage anyone to read the many independent studies on rats to appreciate just how devastating gm is to human health and this is only stage 1. The next stage will involve delivering "vitamins" and no doubt other chemicals. through this toxic garbage. This is a global plan for destruction and yet people don't want to see it. That's impossible they insist, suddenly the ones looking after us aren't social darwinists/psychopaths/sociopaths. What can we do about it? elections are fixed, it's an expenditure of time effort and money entirely without benefit. Eat local produce, maintain as healthy life style as you can and eat as much real organic food as you can reasonably afford. Those knowingly pushing this agenda need to be put in front of Nuremburg type trial that is for sure