The lesson in all this

[Trauma-san]

Things I've noticed:

1. Saadam Hussein can do whatever the hell he wants to muslims, and most muslims around the world would rather have him carry out his atrocities, as opposed to the united states (a non-muslim state) liberate the people.  Even though every muslim knows that Saadam's soldiers rape women, kill people at will, etc... they would rather have him in power, simply for the fact that he's muslim.  They don't want any outside help at all... except the people actually IN iraq.  They want all the help they can get, and can't stand Saadam; the muslim world is willing to turn a blind eye, though, because outside forces are involved.  They'd rather Saadam stay in power than america have anything to do with it.  

This MAKES the war a holy war.  Why?... because the majority of muslims would protect Saadam's regime, ONLY for the sake of him being muslim! It doesn't matter if he's satan on earth, they'd rather see him alive than 1 muslim get killed, even though saadam has killed hundreds of thousands of muslims in his reign.  They have no sense of justice from this coalition, they're happy to wallow in their own mud, and would rather go on fighting internal wars "IN THE NAME OF ALLAH" against other allah-fearing countries, then take any kind of help from a 'non-allah' country.  How this is lost on anyone, is beyond me; the entire middle-east is HELL and always will be, because they LIKE IT THAT WAY.  They refuse to compliment anything positive that anyone tries to do for them, and instead just reject any kind of assistance, even at the incredible expense of the coalition.  They want to keep killing each other's children, like they have been doing for years and years; when the U.S. steps in, they bitch that the U.S. is going to kill their children.  Am I the only one that sees how incredibly lame this is?  

2. The vast majority of Elected Democrats have no heart.  They moan and strike out against the war, even though it's the innocent people of Iraq the war is mainly devoted to.  Democrats are supposed to be the champions of the oppressed, but instead, they've turned this into a political debate.  Since Bush 'cheated' to win, they don't want to give any legitimacy to his presidency, so they'll oppose ANYTHING he does, EVEN IF IT MEANS turning their back on their oppressed constituants!  Think about this! When Clinton did the EXACT SAME THING in 98, bombed Bosnia, Bombed Iraq, etc., ALL WITHOUT THE U.N.'S APPROVAL!, nobody said a word.  NOT A PEEP, out of the democrats, or the republicans.  The democrats naturally sided with him, because of their party ties, and the republicans didn't say anything, because they understood the humanitarian mission he was trying to accomplish.  Clinton even had the audacity to call for some of the strikes, WHILE he was being impeached, to divert attention.  Why didn't anybody call him out on this, like they are Bush?  SAME EXACT THING! Neither Got U.N. Approval, but yet you hear people bitching and complaining, and rallying in the streets about Bush, but didn't say a damn thing when Clinton had 15 marines killed in conflict!  Why is that?  

3.   The world is going to hell.  Saadam's not the last.  He's not the first, there's always going to be assholes like him, and whenever someone like him is doing evil, the world can't just get rid of him.  It's impossible.  We have so many people in the world now, there's enough idiots around to keep guys like him in power.  Look at the people protesting in the streets.  EVERY SINGLE ONE of those people is rejecting their own personal safety for the safety of a friekin' serial killer.  They go to the streets for the 'innocent' who will be killed in Iraq, but yet don't give a shit about the innocents Saadam has killed! Where are the anti-saadam signs?  They make Bush out to be the world's Hitler, and just ignore that Saadam is having his citizens raped, and torn apart in meat grinders.  They'd rather bitch about Bush's election results than bitch about Saadam killing people on national t.v.  Why is that?  It's because to everthing their is a season, and just like the bible says, before the end of time, the seasons will reverse.  Bad is good, good is evil.  

Think about this; why are people against getting Saadam out of Bagdad?  It's because they don't see clearly.  They'd like to just sit in their homes and pretend that Saadam doesn't exist.  They don't want to know what's going on in Iraq.  The people in Egypt who are fellow muslims don't even care.  All they want to see is somebody attacking Muslims.  They don't think america is attacking Saadam; they think America is attacking Iraq.  The pictures of us caring for surrendered troops don't even get noticed; they don't notice Saadam hiding troops in childrens hospitals and despicable crap like that.  Nobody says a thing.  They dont' notice dead pow's shot at point blank; all they see, are Muslims getting shot at by non-muslims.  Why is it that the protestors in the streets see the muslims WE shoot, but don't see the muslims Saadam shoots?  Why is that?  Why are they that near sighted?  

I can understand Iraqi's shooting at us.  I can understand innocents in Iraq even shooting at us.  To them our motives might be unclear.  They might be threatened, maybe they have to stand up for saadam.  When 30% of the U.S. population thinks that we should leave poor old saadam alone, though, I have to wonder, what the hell are they smoking?  They dont' even see what he does to his own people, and then use that SAME 'compassion' rationale to say why we shouldn't go over there.  "we'll kill innocents" is the reason they give for being against war, but yet, they don't give a shit that Saadam kills innocents! Am I the only person on this board that sees the hypocricy of this?  Why are people against this war?  It's rediculous.  What does america have to do to prove itself?  What do we have to do for these people in Iraq to show that we're not after their oil, that we're not trying to take the state over; what the hell?  

How can muslims, in particular, sit by, and watch Saadam make a mockery of their god?  He says he's fighting for allah, but then rapes and kills and maims his own muslim brothers, for a comment, or a stand they take against the government?  He kills people living in his country with gas just because they're a different ethnic group?  Every muslim in the world should stand outraged that he would represent your proud religion this way.  Instead, they blindly accuse the U.S. of all types of atrocities, and pat Saadam on the back when he kills some of us!  

The world has gone mad, and I've got my guns when it comes looking.  

[Agua]

 

trauma, your posts are pitiful.

[.:DayGoStyLz:.]

lol@ this thread


What is "beyond me", is how some people can ALWAYS seem to feel that the way they "THINK" is the ONLY way to think. No race, religion, or any other way of grouping certain people together...decides whether they are bad or good, or whether they are right or wrong. For every finger u point at sum1, there 5 pointing at u. For every country, regime, whateva...that America believes is evil, there 5 that think we are evil. Why is that? Its so close-minded to just assume...its because THEYRE WRONG. Im not calling us the bad guys, but im not calling us the good guys either. If i insult Mormons, and criticize the hypocracy in Christianity...Trauma, youre so quick to tell me i dont understand it. Well, you do the same thing towards others, does that make your view of others any more valid then my view of you? Like i said, this isnt a "Holy War". We waged war on Iraq, period. So unless WE waged war on THEM, in the name of "GOD"...it isnt a "Holy War". They arent attacking us because they think America isnt Islamic...theyre attacking us because we're dropping bombs on their country. If someone ran into yur house with a gun and started shooting at u, would u give a shit what religion they believed in? Sure Saddam should go, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he, or anyone under him...is Muslim. I dont think all THAT many people support Saddam like u think. They just DONT support the war.

[King Tech Quadafi]

These posts are getting stupider by the moment.

The pro war argument is the stupidest thing i have ever seen. All they do is conjure up an argument, then knock it down.

EX. if u are anti war, i are pro saddam, terrorist , evil doers etc

EX. if u are anti war, you are pro atrocities. you are supporting the deaths of iraqis.

Well, T Man, heres the question, which no one here has EVER answered. When has America been given the right to invade sovereign nations simply because their leader threatens their interests?

And T Man, do you HONESTLY FUCKIN THINK BUSH IS INVADING IRAQ TO LIBERATE THE PEOPLE? WHY CANT THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE OF THE WEST BANK BE LIBERATED? HOW ABOUT THE MUSLIMS OF KASHMIR? 30,000 HAS BEEN KILLED THERE IN THE LAST DECADE? HOW ABOUT CHECHNYA? WHY CANT THAT NATION BE LIBERATED.


Conclusion: This is a war that has been planned for years by the Hawks and Neo-Cons that run the current administration. The goal of this group is to restructure the entire middle east and eliminate any threat to Israels  power. Any talk of "liberation" or the "iraqi people" is bullshit and some excuse for fools to jump on the bandwagon.

[.:DayGoStyLz:.]

And T Man, do you HONESTLY FUCKIN THINK BUSH IS INVADING IRAQ TO LIBERATE THE PEOPLE? WHY CANT THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE OF THE WEST BANK BE LIBERATED? HOW ABOUT THE MUSLIMS OF KASHMIR? 30,000 HAS BEEN KILLED THERE IN THE LAST DECADE? HOW ABOUT CHECHNYA? WHY CANT THAT NATION BE LIBERATED.

Because its well known, that Bush LOVES the Iraqi people so much...that he cant seem to focus on helping any other people out, then the Iraqi's. What a good guy.   lol

[Quakaveli]

trauma, your posts are pitiful.

ur homosexual avtar is intolerable  

[Quakaveli]

And T Man, do you HONESTLY FUCKIN THINK BUSH IS INVADING IRAQ TO LIBERATE THE PEOPLE? WHY CANT THE OPPRESSED PEOPLE OF THE WEST BANK BE LIBERATED? HOW ABOUT THE MUSLIMS OF KASHMIR? 30,000 HAS BEEN KILLED THERE IN THE LAST DECADE? HOW ABOUT CHECHNYA? WHY CANT THAT NATION BE LIBERATED.

LMAO T-man....hahaha NOW whose gettin stupider with every word? Umm im not trauma but lemme hit it anyway:

Umm in the civil war slavery was abolished because the north states had a unrelated SELFISHLY-MOTIVATED reason to fight the south...and GOOD came from it...similar here. Now US isnt a father figure to the world...we are basically just a nation and bottom line iz dat we care about shit that affects us. We're not trying to win sum muthafuckin award for the "most righteous nation on the Earth or something" ...damn Faghans these days

[Quakaveli]

Oh yeah you cry so much about the 30,000 "Muslims" in Kashmir....why arent there any hindus left or did islamic terrorists eliminate them completely?

[bow_down]

Most muslims i know dont fully support Saddam Hussein but they admire him for standing up against an american government which supports israels opression of palestinians

[infinite59]

1.  Muslims don't support Sadaam Hussien.  But we do support the many devout Muslims living in Iraq.  And we care greatly for their survival and right to self-determination.  The US is trying to dominate the middle East and usurp it's oil wealth.  This is only the beggining.

2.  I agree with you.  Democrats, Republicans, it is all the same thing.  As Imam Jamil says, "What does it profit a man, to give him a vote and call him free.  He has to choose between twittle dee and twittle dum."

3.  Once again.  Like in question one.  Those protesters in no way do they support Sadaam.  You know this.  And this is obvious to anyone with half a brain.  However, they don't support America's arrogance, and America's belief that it can do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and however it wants.  Please let the Arab world solve it's own problems.  Sadaam has never attacked the US.

[Kaidy]

These posts are getting stupider by the moment.

They sure are.

I think it's really sad that the war-hawks have to resort to name calling and lies to try and destroy the momentum of the anti-war movement. I wonder if the people who have been brainwashed by nationalistic propaganda actually believe what they're saying or if they just roll with the tide.

try and see the big picture. It's not just the middle east that has a mass of opressed people. Look at Africa and South America - Two massive continents who are full of countries with corrupt leaderships and an incredible amount of poor people. No countres are out there trying to help them and take down their leaders. The US/UK/coalition countries don't give a fuck about liberating anyone.

[Twentytwofifty]

Please let the Arab world solve it's own problems.

I don't think so.  They won't do shit.  

The murdering, tortureing and raping will continue.

 

[ITW [the irish boy]]

As you once said yourself trauma, let me destroy this real quick.

1. Saddam is not at all religious, and for that reason the saddam regime is greatly disliked by al queda. The dude doesnt give a fuck about islam.
You say everyone in Iraq wants the americans there. Have you talked to these people? I guess you havent so lets look at the situation. Basra, a city which has been oppessed massively by saddam and the sunnis are fighting against the americans, and its not just the soldiers, civilians are taking arms. Iraq is like ireland, it has a history of being invaded and conquered (enlgish among others)They have no reason to believe this is any different and they will fight for their countrys pride despite saddams downfalls. Can you really blame them. On our tv we see the iraqis getting cared for by american troops. What do they see on the ground. An estimated 1000 troops killed in a major battle in basra, a bus hit by an american missile, horrendus bombing of their capital city and a market in baghdad getting annihilated. But of course america has dropped leaflets saying "we're here to help you". Well thats just great.

Now I am no supporter of saddam. I know he has kills thousands of muslims. You say is it not hyprocritical to condemn amercans killing muslims and not saddam killing them. Look at it the other way. Is it not hypocritical to condemn saddam for killing them while your own troops are doing the same? I believe saddam should be ousted but the civilians are against it, they think you will try and run the country, and do you really fancy running a country that hates you more than a vicious oppressor.

As for your allegations against anti war people thats pathetic. This war was once about wmd. When that was going well, it became a freedom fight. And now your killing the people you wanna free. You gotta admit, from the way the iraqis are fighting back, youd swear they didnt wanna be liberated.

[Kaidy]

I think its funny they keep saying that Iraqi troops are 'dressing up' as civilians to attack the coalition army. What's actually happening is the Iraqi civilians don't want people invading them, they're going to get their guns and basically telling the US/UK to fuck off.

I also think its funny how some people believe everything the Pentagon or MoD tells them.

[Pimpdogg]

it's so nice that all these anti-war protesters can use their freedom of speech to oppose the war apparently unaware that freedom of speech is one of many basic human rights being denied the people of iraq.

couple of other things:-

- the people of basra aren't fighting the coalition forces they are rebelling against the iraqi forces in the city.

- if the people of iraq don't want liberating they were hiding it well when the aid trucks rolled into safwan. They did not look like people who were happy with the saddam regime.