TDE's CEO Responds to Suge Knight's Recent Comments

[aerroc]

A war of words is brewing between Compton's old guard and the new kids on the block. In recent weeks, Suge Knight, the co-founder of Death Row Records, has been critical of Kendrick Lamar's record deal. Now the CEO of Top Dawg Entertainment, where K. Dot is signed, is speaking up.

"TELL SUGE I SAID IF HE KAN SHOW ME 1 CHECK WE PAID 2 INTERSCOPE OFF OF R TOUING..ILL SELL HIM TDE 4 $1, NOBODY GETS SHIT OFF OUR TOURS. #TOP ," Anthony "Top Dawg" Tiffith tweeted on Wednesday (April 16).

The challenge came in response to comments that Knight made yesterday to BET. "Not only do these companies get the royalties and the publishing, if [the artist] do a show and $100,000 come in, the managers of the guys I'm saying who run the record company gets 20 percent," he said. "Now it's $80,000. Kendrick gets half, the record company gets half, which is ridiculous."

Last year, Tiffith spoke on the comparisons he and his label had been getting to Knight and Death Row. "I respect Suge for what he's done in music," he told VIBE. "They had a star roster; I think I have a star roster...We got a lot of similarities, but we don't club like they clubbed, 'cause you always got someone that want to come and try some sh--."

This wasn't the first time in recent weeks that Knight has sounded like he was trying to start some sh--. "If you look at Interscope, two guys from Compton — Game, Kendrick Lamar — got two of the worst deals in the industry," he said on The Arsenio Hall Show in February. "It's more slavery now than ever."

"[All I was saying was] it's not fair for two n---s from Compton to be gettin' f----d, and it's not good for me to have knowledge and not pass it on to them," the industry vet told BET. "It wasn't about putting them as men down or as artists down, it was about putting the person who's in control down, saying 'How are you f-----g over these dudes from Compton when they're making a difference for your company?' "

[Blood$]

Suge just got put in his place lol

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Not really, it's not like anyone believed Suge to begin with... plus it's not like his deals were the best either, and when they were, the artists didn't get paid in accordance with their contract terms.

[mastdark81]

Not really, it's not like anyone believed Suge to begin with... plus it's not like his deals were the best either, and when they were, the artists didn't get paid in accordance with their contract terms.

I think what Suge was trying to say is the artists are not getting 100% profit off their tours.  He said in the first line that the managers were getting 20% of what they were making.

TDE CEO said he wasn't writing a check to Interscope but he didn't say that his own label, himself or his manager wasn't dipping in the pot.


That's how I took it.  Could be wrong.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

If that's what he meant (which is possible), then he's confusing things that Suge said but from different interviews.  I think in the other interview (maybe with Arsenio) was where he talked about their record deals having to split with Interscope

[Hack Wilson - real]

either way TDE will never be what Death Row was and Suge will never be relevant in the music biz again  (outside of a reality TV show) so it's a dead horse.

[abusive]

He should have just kept his mouth shut. What he exposed in his answer was that yes they have to break bread with Universal/Interscope/Aftermath/TDE then Kendrick and that they are getting in on his royalties as well as publishing. So Suge was 99% right afterall. I can say that because TDE never denied the full statement, just the touring aspect. I wonder who profits from Kendrick's merchandise? I'm surprised at Suge though. Either TDE is lying or Suge got some bad info on the touring. I would think Suge would be able to know 100% about that sort of thing before speaking on it.

Game is smart for not saying anything again like he did in his previous freestyle. He got plenty of hands in his pockets so he don't even need to front no more. Suge hasn't gotten the message yet that the mystique of the past is gone and the public isn't stupid about this sort of thing. I'll go as far as to say that Suge's info is obsolete. Sure, back in the day he dropped jewels about owning masters and distribution but now we all know about that stuff. It doesn't come off as a gem anymore, just str8 hatin'.

I don't get all of this signing to sub labels and signing to artist signed to sub labels anyway that's going on. Why not go to the head instead of the body? Just imagine the red tape (no pun intended) involved dealing with money in the Game and Kendrick's situation. lol Has to be crazy as hell.

[Jimmy H.]

If that's what he meant (which is possible), then he's confusing things that Suge said but from different interviews.  I think in the other interview (maybe with Arsenio) was where he talked about their record deals having to split with Interscope

But when he said that thing about the tour money, it was his explanation for the first interview.  He was expanding on it like, "This is why I said that". I think what Top Dawg is getting at is addressing the confusion.  You can't say, "Death Row was different because we weren't giving tour money to Interscope" and not expect clarification if that statement is false.

I've never heard it explained why Suge saw his artist deals as "different". As I recall and I could be mistaken on this one, his wife, was the manager for nearly everybody at the label when it first popped off, besides Dre. Their legal representation was the same lawyer for the label. Now, your manager is supposed to negotiate with the label on your behalf to get you the best deal. If that person is working with the label, what are the odds of that happening?

[abusive]

If that's what he meant (which is possible), then he's confusing things that Suge said but from different interviews.  I think in the other interview (maybe with Arsenio) was where he talked about their record deals having to split with Interscope

But when he said that thing about the tour money, it was his explanation for the first interview.  He was expanding on it like, "This is why I said that". I think what Top Dawg is getting at is addressing the confusion.  You can't say, "Death Row was different because we weren't giving tour money to Interscope" and not expect clarification if that statement is false.

I've never heard it explained why Suge saw his artist deals as "different". As I recall and I could be mistaken on this one, his wife, was the manager for nearly everybody at the label when it first popped off, besides Dre. Their legal representation was the same lawyer for the label. Now, your manager is supposed to negotiate with the label on your behalf to get you the best deal. If that person is working with the label, what are the odds of that happening?

The deals were different because number one Death Row saved Interscope. Due to that Suge could do whatever he wanted in Interscope's eyes. It wasn't Interscope telling Suge and DR what to do, it was the other way around because DR was on point and Interscope was making alot of money with DR. Kendrick nor Game could ever be in that position of power. The only person who came close was 50 and Jimmy Ivonne cut him off the same way he did Suge even though bit were loyal to him. That's one major difference.

Two, his artist were signed to Death Row/Interscope with maybeone other imprint in between. This was before the merger with Universal. With the case of Kendrick and Game there are more imprints to go through before they see a cut. That's all Suge was saying. Which obviously isn't a good position to be in and anyone in the business will tell you that.

Next point is the touring aspect which Suge may be wrong about as far as Interscope getting a piece, it wasn't like that during the DR days. That's generally associated with 360 deals which came well after DR. I'm not familiar with Suge's wife being manager but if so that isn't uncommon and it doesn't necessarily mean that the artist is being ripped off. It's just a conflict of interest which may lead to abuse. Sha Money XL was manager for some G-Unit members even though he had a top position at G-Unit.  Suge was/is Dre manager. I say "is" because he claims to have a lifetime agreement with him on that. I know Dre isn't honoring it, don't get me wrong but surely that was a conflict, however was it really bad for business in Dre's case?

Suge also mentioned royalties and publishing which TDE didn't deny. That has always been an issue in the industry but in recent years labels have wanted more from their artist, the same as they want the artist touring money to compensate for the lack of record sales. I will go out on a limb an say that Game and Kendrick contracts have them seeing less than past death row artist simply because the times that they are in where the music industry has basically collapsed.

Despite what everyone thinks, according to former DR artist, DR artist were all eating well over there. Yes there was f*ckery but even if there wasn't it doesn't mean that Suge isn't on point with his comments. Everything he is saying could apply to his artist but that wouldn't make a word of this untrue. It would just be hypocritical for him to say.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

I've never heard it explained why Suge saw his artist deals as "different". As I recall and I could be mistaken on this one, his wife, was the manager for nearly everybody at the label when it first popped off, besides Dre. Their legal representation was the same lawyer for the label. Now, your manager is supposed to negotiate with the label on your behalf to get you the best deal. If that person is working with the label, what are the odds of that happening?

It's a conflict of interest, but it's not as if anyone (other than maybe Pac) had an attorney before signing with Death Row, or hired one on their own when wanting to negotiate.

[GangstaBoogy]

Thats not at all what Suge was saying. He wasn't saying they pay Interscope a percentage of their tour money. What he was saying is if Kendrick makes $100,000 off touring...his manager gets 20% off top. Then the rest of the money is a 50/50 split between Kendrick and his label (meaning Top Dawg!). So sounds like Top Dawg is covering for himself.

Suge is not exactly the most believable person but in this case, I absolutely believe him.

[Jimmy H.]

The deals were different because number one Death Row saved Interscope. Due to that Suge could do whatever he wanted in Interscope's eyes. It wasn't Interscope telling Suge and DR what to do, it was the other way around because DR was on point and Interscope was making alot of money with DR. 

  I don't really think it was ever Death Row telling Interscope what to do. I think as long as Death Row was making millions for them, Interscope didn't care but I would find it hard to believe that Jimmy was ever getting voted down by Suge on anything. I think Suge had a formula in play and as long as Interscope was not called to task for any of the craziness that was going on over there, they turned a blind eye. They were in a position of power so they were probably able to get some things out of Interscope.

The only person who came close was 50 and Jimmy Ivonne cut him off the same way he did Suge even though bit were loyal to him. That's one major difference. 

I don't buy the word, "loyalty" in a business as cutthroat as the entertainment industry. 50 and Suge were both good to Jimmy but let's be honest, they had to be. If either one could get more money through another major or distributor, they would be gone. You can't fall in love with a hooker and neither Suge Knight or Curtis Jackson are the type to be hustled by anyone so the situation will be what it is.

Two, his artist were signed to Death Row/Interscope with maybeone other imprint in between. This was before the merger with Universal. With the case of Kendrick and Game there are more imprints to go through before they see a cut. That's all Suge was saying. Which obviously isn't a good position to be in and anyone in the business will tell you that.
 

I wouldn't disagree that being tied down to that many deals is bad but what is a great deal or even good one? Suge makes it into a Westcoast thing, which I don't feel it is. The artists with the best deals are the ones with considerable business savy. Eazy-E in his time had a great one because he knew how to run a label. 50 Cent didn't end up just an "artist" on Shady/Aftermath and let's keep in mind that he had just as many label imprints on his first CD as Game did. He also had Violator Management and Chris Lighty doing business for him. He also managed to come off that with his own deals and million-dollar sub-label imprint.

 

Next point is the touring aspect which Suge may be wrong about as far as Interscope getting a piece, it wasn't like that during the DR days. That's generally associated with 360 deals which came well after DR. I'm not familiar with Suge's wife being manager but if so that isn't uncommon and it doesn't necessarily mean that the artist is being ripped off. It's just a conflict of interest which may lead to abuse. Sha Money XL was manager for some G-Unit members even though he had a top position at G-Unit.   

 

Yes, many labels do have managers for their artists that also work for the label and I don't think it ever works out well for them. Eminem's manager doesn't work for Dr. Dre. He works for Eminem. He protects Em's interests beyond the revenue he creates for Interscope. 50 Cent''s manager didn't work for Em or Dre. Eazy-E's manager was Jerry Heller. The artists who worked for Ruthless that signed on with Heller as their manager where generally unhappy and it should be noted that the ones who broke from it were the ones who ended up getting deals elsewhere to compete with Eazy on the charts. If I am an artist manager who also has a stake in the label that the artist I represent works for then what incentive do I have to get that artist a competitive deal somewhere else? And that goes for Sha Money as well. Which G-Unit guys were breaking off and doing their own artist labels independent of 50? Only one comes to mind.

Suge was/is Dre manager. I say "is" because he claims to have a lifetime agreement with him on that. I know Dre isn't honoring it, don't get me wrong but surely that was a conflict, however was it really bad for business in Dre's case? 

I can't see how a lifetime managerial contract with anyone could be seen as a good business deal for the person who signs it. Where is the protection for this person? A person's value in the market place is essentially defined by what they are worth on the open market. If there is no renegotiation process then there is zero long-term protection for the client. This to me is where confusion comes into play. How can someone on one hand, publicly bemoan labels for "slave" deals and on the other hand, supposedly claim to own his first major client for the entire length of his professional career? I have never heard this claim in a Suge interview and in a lot of them, he's known to make some pretty outlandish statements as a way of jabbing former associates so I can't specifically say what's what with this but if there is truth to it, I can't buy him being the kind of guy who walk away from being owed millions of dollars by one of the wealthiest music producers around and just being alright with it.

Suge also mentioned royalties and publishing which TDE didn't deny. That has always been an issue in the industry but in recent years labels have wanted more from their artist, the same as they want the artist touring money to compensate for the lack of record sales. I will go out on a limb an say that Game and Kendrick contracts have them seeing less than past death row artist simply because the times that they are in where the music industry has basically collapsed.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's hard to establish a solid ground for comparison. It's almost an apples and oranges kind of debate because no artist on Death Row had ever successfully launched a sub-label within Death Row. Pac was laying the groundwork for one as was Snoop and later Daz but the foundation was never really completed.

Despite what everyone thinks, according to former DR artist, DR artist were all eating well over there. Yes there was f*ckery but even if there wasn't it doesn't mean that Suge isn't on point with his comments. Everything he is saying could apply to his artist but that wouldn't make a word of this untrue. It would just be hypocritical for him to say.

But what is "eating well"? You have some who say they were and others who say they were not. Eating well off association isn't eating well to me. All I can look at it from an objective standpoint is the aftermath. If I'm worth a hundred million dollars and I am spending about ten or fifteen percent of that on my employees, buying them expensive things for them, I could argue you that they are eating well but when they leave, how are they able to afford the gifts I give them if I am know longer giving them access to my money?

Again, this is not a strictly Suge Knight thing but you have to look at everybody and say what are the "great deals"?

It's a conflict of interest, but it's not as if anyone (other than maybe Pac) had an attorney before signing with Death Row, or hired one on their own when wanting to negotiate.

  If you are an unsigned guy and the hottest label wants you, what leverage do you have? If it's a bidding war, it's one thing. You have freedom but let's say that you are Snoop's man and Suge says, "Hey, we want you on this song" or you are some writer or musician and Dre wants you in the studio. Most of them are going to be so happy just to be in that space that getting their paperwork in check is never going to occur to them. All they want is the opportunity. If you write a hot song and you suddenly have some material to show for it, you might not even ask twice. The prevailing logic is you're helping out someone with millions of dollars so they owe you one but the industry ain't always fair like that. In most cases, the feeling is "I didn't have to put you on and I did, we're even".

Wealthy people don't become wealthy through random acts of generosity. Most labels give their artists jewelry, cars, and houses because these are things that general public associates with wealth. This goes the same for athletes. People might have thought Tyson was eating good because he had a big mansion, cars, lots of fine bitches, and all but he was getting hosed for hundreds of millions. Don King was getting a large percentage exploiting his wreckless image but Tyson's money was paying for the lawyer fees for all the crazy shit he got caught on.

[abusive]

Suge was calling shots at Interscope, period! So was 50, probably Em and Dre as well. You give the label to much credit , look at them now. Once again they are failing waiting for the next person to come in and set things back in order. They don't know Hip Hop. People like Suge do, they had no choice but to follow suit. If they had any sense they would have seen what they had in Pac instead of closing the books on him. At the end of the day, no DR no Interscope.

Suge did a deal elsewhere worth millions but he turned it down for Jimmy out of loyalty.  I'll continue to look for the source but in the meantime I'm sure someone here can confirm Suge saying that. It was like $60-80 million if I remember correctly and he specifically said it was out of loyalty to Jimmy.

Just because the artist make money doesn't mean it's a good deal. What's a good deal? You as the artist with the least amount of hands in your pocket as possible. Artist sign too quickly or sign deals for too many albums or for too many years that allows others to continue to profit off of the work that they the artist do while the ones they are signed to benefit simply because they have the paperwork on them. In many cases the people they are signed to don't uphold their end of the contract and the artist are the ones who grind and make themselves hot enough to bring in the money. That's why it's best to do as much as you can independently, try to keep everything in house and put on your people. (Just make sure your people are qualified to work for you.)

I agree with the artist management aspect. My point was that it does happen in the business. The only artist that every said they were screwed at G-Unit was Young Buck and 50 refuted him. So I do think that in some cases even though there is a conflict present, that it can work out in favor of the artist.

The 17:00 mark he discusses Dre and Jimmy and a lifetime management deal.


It's not apples and oranges because the industry model is worse off now than it was then. Lyor Cohen came up with the 360 deals before then much of what is contained within those types of deals was unheard of. What Suge was talking about on Arsenio as well as with BET sound similar to the 360 model. Therefore artist then just on chance alone were probably better off. To a vet like Suge and others, it sounds insane for a label to want part of artist shows and whatnot.

You have a point with the eating well statement I made.

What you said @DeeezNuuuts83 is what The D.O.C. experienced fooling with Dre for over twenty years. Once it was over he had nothing to show for it. But that's his fault for never learning the game. Suge knows about all of this because he tried to help The D.O.C. and Dre with their Ruthless contracts. He knows what he's talking about from experience. I'll take his word over TDE's or Game's anyday of the week.

[Jimmy H.]

Suge was calling shots at Interscope, period! So was 50, probably Em and Dre as well. You give the label to much credit , look at them now. Once again they are failing waiting for the next person to come in and set things back in order. They don't know Hip Hop. People like Suge do, they had no choice but to follow suit. If they had any sense they would have seen what they had in Pac instead of closing the books on him. At the end of the day, no DR no Interscope.

  I think Suge and Death Row were given the keys to palace over there but I don't think they were running it.

Suge did a deal elsewhere worth millions but he turned it down for Jimmy out of loyalty.  I'll continue to look for the source but in the meantime I'm sure someone here can confirm Suge saying that. It was like $60-80 million if I remember correctly and he specifically said it was out of loyalty to Jimmy.

Are you referring to the deal he was offered by C. Delores Tucker for a "cleaner Death Row" overseen by her and her watchdog group?

Just because the artist make money doesn't mean it's a good deal. What's a good deal? You as the artist with the least amount of hands in your pocket as possible. Artist sign too quickly or sign deals for too many albums or for too many years that allows others to continue to profit off of the work that they the artist do while the ones they are signed to benefit simply because they have the paperwork on them. In many cases the people they are signed to don't uphold their end of the contract and the artist are the ones who grind and make themselves hot enough to bring in the money. That's why it's best to do as much as you can independently, try to keep everything in house and put on your people. (Just make sure your people are qualified to work for you.)

I think that's debatable.  If the people you're giving that money to are doing what they need to do for that money, it can work in the artist's favor but it's also about how much the artist is willing to do for himself. 50 had a deal with Dre, Eminem, and Jimmy plus whatever managers he had at that time but he still managed to work into one of the most lucrative deals in the industry.

I would certainly favor independent money over the major labels is if the artist truly has their grind down but if what you are making as an independent artist doesn't add up to what you would on a label deal, it's not that much better of an option in some cases.

What you said @DeeezNuuuts83 is what The D.O.C. experienced fooling with Dre for over twenty years. Once it was over he had nothing to show for it. But that's his fault for never learning the game. Suge knows about all of this because he tried to help The D.O.C. and Dre with their Ruthless contracts. He knows what he's talking about from experience. I'll take his word over TDE's or Game's anyday of the week.

I wouldn't even really speculate on who is right and who is wrong from simple conversation.  The Game deal seems funny because time has revealed some inconsistencies about that deal but TDE until more information comes out, I can't say if it's bad or good.

[abusive]

Suge was calling shots at Interscope, period! So was 50, probably Em and Dre as well. You give the label to much credit , look at them now. Once again they are failing waiting for the next person to come in and set things back in order. They don't know Hip Hop. People like Suge do, they had no choice but to follow suit. If they had any sense they would have seen what they had in Pac instead of closing the books on him. At the end of the day, no DR no Interscope.

  I think Suge and Death Row were given the keys to palace over there but I don't think they were running it.

Suge did a deal elsewhere worth millions but he turned it down for Jimmy out of loyalty.  I'll continue to look for the source but in the meantime I'm sure someone here can confirm Suge saying that. It was like $60-80 million if I remember correctly and he specifically said it was out of loyalty to Jimmy.

Are you referring to the deal he was offered by C. Delores Tucker for a "cleaner Death Row" overseen by her and her watchdog group?
I don't know what the deal was he didn't say, I just heard him mention it in a interview or documentary or something. One of the DR oligist can confirm this. If not it's still true. lol

Just because the artist make money doesn't mean it's a good deal. What's a good deal? You as the artist with the least amount of hands in your pocket as possible. Artist sign too quickly or sign deals for too many albums or for too many years that allows others to continue to profit off of the work that they the artist do while the ones they are signed to benefit simply because they have the paperwork on them. In many cases the people they are signed to don't uphold their end of the contract and the artist are the ones who grind and make themselves hot enough to bring in the money. That's why it's best to do as much as you can independently, try to keep everything in house and put on your people. (Just make sure your people are qualified to work for you.)

I think that's debatable.  If the people you're giving that money to are doing what they need to do for that money, it can work in the artist's favor but it's also about how much the artist is willing to do for himself. 50 had a deal with Dre, Eminem, and Jimmy plus whatever managers he had at that time but he still managed to work into one of the most lucrative deals in the industry.

That's 3 entities you named where Kendrick and Game have more than 3. I fail to see your point. Also, Kendrick and Game haven't seen anywhere near the level of success that 50 has had. 50 was doing in a few weeks what it has taken Kendrick a year to deal.

I would certainly favor independent money over the major labels is if the artist truly has their grind down but if what you are making as an independent artist doesn't add up to what you would on a label deal, it's not that much better of an option in some cases.

Most people will agree that in the case of Kendrick that it was him and TDE that him where he is. Not Aftermath/Interscope. Did you peep the recent comments by School Boy Q about staying independent?

Schoolboy Q Wishes He Could’ve Stayed Independent
http://thesource.com/2014/03/11/schoolboy-q-wishes-he-couldve-stayed-independent/

TDE’s Schoolboy Q, who’s debut album, Oxymoron, is still in the top 10 on the Billboard 200 three weeks after being released–recently vented to Hot 93.7 on how he regrets signing to Interscope Records, wishing that he remained independent at TDE instead of being under a “rap contract”. Being under Interscope he states that he isn’t allowed to put out mixtapes anymore, saving all of his creative energy for his studio albums instead.  Although he was grateful for having the title of having the #1 album in the country last week, he states that he doesn’t really care about having a top radio single, and he was much more into being independent. It seems like he is staying away from major endorsement deals as well, stating that everyone wants to collaborate on a bucket hat collection with him. “There’s so many bucket hat companies offering me so much money, but I’d rather do it myself.  If you wanted to give me that much money, I know I could make that much money on my own.”  He states that he believes that he can enter the world of side projects such as fashion (bucket hats) on his own, and as far as that goes, he has everything covered.

Notice what he says about the bucket hat thing. It's probably in his contract with Interscope to get a portion of that money! I wouldn't be surprised if true that he doesn't want to do the deal just so he doesn't have to split the money up with them.

From what I can see he has been riding the wave of Kendrick's success in a similar way that Game rode the success of 50. (Don't get me wrong, I know he's been grinding for a minute and putting out good content but a large part of his exposure comes strategically from TDE associating him with Kendrick.) He could have easily put his album out without the majors and done similar numbers. Even if the numbers were smaller he would have been able to keep a larger piece of the pie and in turn made more by doing so.

What you said @DeeezNuuuts83 is what The D.O.C. experienced fooling with Dre for over twenty years. Once it was over he had nothing to show for it. But that's his fault for never learning the game. Suge knows about all of this because he tried to help The D.O.C. and Dre with their Ruthless contracts. He knows what he's talking about from experience. I'll take his word over TDE's or Game's anyday of the week.

I wouldn't even really speculate on who is right and who is wrong from simple conversation.  The Game deal seems funny because time has revealed some inconsistencies about that deal but TDE until more information comes out, I can't say if it's bad or good.


The Game was screwed from the get go. He was shelved at Interscope for a minute, 50 saved him from that and blew him up, when he did blow up JT came in and wanted his piece. So you already had Interscope/Aftermath/50/JT eating off of him then Jimmy Henchman and whoever else is in the picture. Regardless of whether or not Game has/had certain aspects of a 360 deal such as forking over part of endorsements/tour money/acting gigs etc. his deal isn't good. I don't see why you would even consider debating this. You tell me at DR who had that many hands in an artist pocket. Even if you could the business model of labels eating off of artist deals outside of their music was non existent so they were automatically better off.  You think Snoop had to pay DR/Interscope a piece of his St. Ides money? Unless St. Ides licensed part of the music that was under the labels they didn't see a piece. Now a days with these deals the labels get a piece even if the music isn't being used. You think they ate off of Pac's Versace deal? No! They were better off back in the day, I stand by that. The money was way bigger in the DR hey day than it is now, everyone knows that. Alot of cats made alot of money for bs albums, albums that flopped and even albums that were shelved.