Westcoast rap has failed.

[heyyou]

Well looking at the thread about ice cube' s drop girl, and it goes to prove the OP' s and mines point.

The positive is that the fans are now starting to backlash! 

[abusive]

Okay, it's been a few days before I was able to properly reply. Thanks for the reactions, and a few replies to things said or asked by others:

- First, there is a difference between calling somebody a bitch for having personally hurt you and calling women in general bitches. Don't tell me a lot of westcoast rappers do not refer to most or all women as bitches, because they do. It's disrespectful, it's childish and it's toxic if your audience isn't too bright or enlightened. Also don't come up with Nice Guy arguments (I'm not sure if said poster meant that but I'm playing safe here). Yes, there are women out there who play with feelings but Nice Guy stories generally amount to the guy calling himself one and feeling entitled. You have no right to anyone's body.
- I didn't come out to write an essay, I just try to put effort into what I write and had a lot I wanted to say.
- I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels embarassed by rap at times.
- I can understand not always feeling comfortable loudly blasting out music with offensive lyrics in public. There's being oneself and (unpurposely) advertising yourself as a backwards bigot or douchebag by association.
- Whether or not ' Rhythm-a-lism'  is a classic album or not is besides the point, so those were pretty useless posts. That's the same old same old bickering about opinions much of this forum is about. Talk about tiresome!
- Whether or not I'm 'the life of the party' is neither here nor there. Was that meant to be some cheap shot at me? If your definition of being the life of the party is loving all vile and ignorant nonsense, draw your conclusions about your priorities and your mindset.
- I used to agree with that ' freely expressing yourself' aspect. If you do so however, you can also expect criticism for it and shouldn't nag about that. Using honesty as an excuse for saying horrible things doesn't make you a better person, but perhaps the world should at least be thankful you're proudly exposing yourself as the asshole you apparently are or present yourself as and leave no doubt there.
- If your evaluation of a person or anything people say is based on how much sex they get...do I really need to point out why that's impossible to take serious? Don't make a fool of yourself. If you insist, leave it to others who make it more entertaining to read.

Much of what you have stated was in this article Ice Cube exposed:
http://rappersexposed.hubpages.com/hub/Ice-Cube-Exposed

[Fraxxx]

Chuck D still knows what's up!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ</a>

[Sccit]

I have a dope song for OP

<a href="http://youtube.com/v/YEr0oCHHuUk" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://youtube.com/v/YEr0oCHHuUk</a>

[heyyou]

Chuck D still knows what's up!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ</a>

Ive just finished watching this. A brilliant video!

Touched on many of the subjects and exposes  the hypocrisy of some of the views and the dark side
of the effects of the music and image thats put out.

willie lynch must be proud!

[Fraxxx]

Chuck D still knows what's up!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/mW_Xbj0zNMQ</a>

Ive just finished watching this. A brilliant video!

Touched on many of the subjects and exposes  the hypocrisy of some of the views and the dark side
of the effects of the music and image thats put out.

willie lynch must be proud!

Thought so, too. Glad that you liked it.

The perspective on how that hyper-masculine behavior really is a way of compensating an actual lack of power and control over one's own life made a lot of sense.

[7even]

I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.

[Matty]

lol @ this thread. not because of the content more the responses and unsurprisingly quik is mentioned a lot. probably because he's the best example of the musically sublime with lyrically vulgar, though not all the time. kinda why i'd love to hear more r&b music from him, everyone loves 'lets get down'...

'Rhythm-al-ism is a classic

yup. quik is a conflicted character anyway, genius no doubt but like a lot of geniuses quite volatile & unstable. if we're gonna take west coast rap (the type being talked about here) seriously then some pretty unwholesome stuff is being said most of the time. doesn't that go without saying? and rap music has always been an outlet to say whatever, so if i'm entertained i'm not taking the lyrics too seriously. i never had a problem looking past that stuff and enjoying the artist on their own terms. they're a product of their environment, it is what it is. it may not be poltically correct but it's a whole attitude and culture thats flavour is unmistakable. there's a bright, sunny picture being painted in the midst of it all. west west y'all.

having said that...i agree with the main sentiment, namely that what the music is about is increasingly opposed to what i'm about. over time the unwholesome aspect of the lyrics becomes more pronounced, that's unavoidable. even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks

one thing i'm not feeling is the righteous tone in the OP. aligning with more universal values - love, acceptance etc then at the same time casting judgement upon others who aren't on the same page. it's a big thing on the internet and with liberal/politically correct mindset to be offended and then shit on people who disagree or have different views, even if they are hateful, ignorant or whatever. it always comes off as hypocritical when i see it. the correct way to meet ignorance/confusion is with compassion, not proclamations of moral superiority.

[Sccit]

I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.

Pretty much on point

[heyyou]

I never understood why niggas seperate music from movies so strictly. Both of it is entertainment and can cover different genres and levels of depth. When you condemn violence in rap songs, you should condemn horror movies as well. Or movies that have large elements of violence, which is pretty much half of whatever is currently running in theatres. I also think it's wrong to always want a deep message. If you want to be enlightened, then read a book, go to school, conversate with smart people. Why would you put on westcoast rap to get all philosophical? Music of all genres is more or less about sex/love. Which is just as redundant as boasting in rap is. Electronic music or even classical music both don't even have lyrics, are both stupid genres because of that? Plus rap is very wide spectrum, some of it has very good lyrics. Not so much on the westcoast, though. Then again, it is a subgenre. Like I said, it's like putting on a horror movie while complaining about lack of depth and poor dialogues. Quik wasn't trying to be anything else, just as Hatched 3 didn't aspire to win an Oscar.

I cant disagree with those views but the main difference is that the actors  generally stop playing their character once the filming is finished.
Rappers generally continue to act in an ignorant way outside the studio claiming to keep it real.
Dont get me wrong a lot of the hollywood films and other music genres also have to take the blame. The difference with rappers though it (rightly or wrongly) reflects badly on the black and other minorities image.  The slave mentality is still there but its black icons who are doing the work for the white men multinational executives keeping not just the black community but lower class people in general in check.

[The JASON MRSA]

Failed? Evolved is a better word.

[LatinoThugPassion]

westcoast music has failed? not when the last 5 songs on the damn radio have been from cali and the last 8 out of 10 were produced by DJ Mustard.. calis basicly almost running the mainstream now

[Z the laidback Virus]

I doubt the last few posts were written by people who actually bothered to read what I wrote before.

Anyways, some reactions again:

- I can understand why it might seem wrong to judge others by standards you set for yourself and which those people are not committed to. However, I think that isn't true here. If I judge people based on how humane they treat or talk of others, I feel I can objectively qualify that. Telling the difference between racist and misogynistic language on one hand and respectful language on the other is rather easy. Also, it's not like I'm not measuring myself by the same standards. I don't use such language myself, so I feel I can condemn others for doing so without being hypocritical. Of course, people are free to express themselves as they see fit, but that doesn't mean they're free from criticism- something ' freeze peach!'-yellers generally seem to forget or ignore. I feel I am totally justified in taking a tone of moral superiority and non-acceptance to people who insist on being a woman-bashing, homophobic, pro-violence, immature and ignorant macho. Deliberately embracing such values does not deserve compassion. Sure, rappers are products of their environment. Does that mean they can't show growth or should be mollycuddled? Show yourself to be a respectable and respectful person and you'll get my respect.
- I agree with those people who say that having the language and manners of many rappers reflects badly on African-Americans in general.
- DJ Quik might be a genius sonically, but he's an immature reactionary in terms of language. If he wants to be an esteemed artist, I'd dare say he first needs to clean up his act or he can't ever be taken as seriously as he probably feels is his due.
- Quik's name has come up often in this thread and indeed, as has been said, for good reason. However, he is one example among way too many. For those who said that westcoast rap simply is about profanity, vulgarity and the like, sure. However, creators are the ones who define what a genre is about. If rappers decide to move away from certain content, so will the genre itself. By now, I think that expecting some maturity from westcoast rap is far from unreasonable. It would seem far more dignified for 40 year olds to rap about real issues than about guns and bitches and if younger rappers want to make a real mark, they should perhaps consider moving away from the same old, cliched, tired and unoriginal subject matter other and often better rappers have been pushing for decades now.
- ' Failing' is, in retrospect, probably not the best term for what I meant when I wrote the OP. However, I do feel there is an enormous loss of potential among rappers in general and westcoast rap in particular by sticking to essentially immature and vile subject matter instead of upping the ante. In that sense, I'd say the genre hasn't evolved at all: It's the same old nonsense rehashed for the upteenth time, generally speaking.
 - It's quite true that my criticisms can be levelled at many other genres too, however this is a westcoast rap forum so I'm restricting the argument here.

[BIGWORM]

It sounds like you need to move on and listen to a genre that suits you better. For you to single out west-coast hip hop/rap is weird since the other regions seem a whole lot worse.

Music is a form of entertainment just like movies/shows if you don't like Spice-1 because of his lyrics you can listen to Will Smith just like if you don't like The Soprano's you can watch Sister Wives. Nobody is forcing us nothing so there is a simple fix, tune out.

Good luck brother and keep growing/learning. Btw your post is very well written...

[Z the laidback Virus]

@BIGWORM:

Thanks and you're quite right I need to move on. I've done so, to some extent. Part of me is a little annoyed by the lack of growth in westcoast rap. I'm not too familiar with other kinds, so I don't feel as confident talking about those.