Westcoast rap has failed.

[Sccit]

I doubt the last few posts were written by people who actually bothered to read what I wrote before.

Anyways, some reactions again:

- I can understand why it might seem wrong to judge others by standards you set for yourself and which those people are not committed to. However, I think that isn't true here. If I judge people based on how humane they treat or talk of others, I feel I can objectively qualify that. Telling the difference between racist and misogynistic language on one hand and respectful language on the other is rather easy. Also, it's not like I'm not measuring myself by the same standards. I don't use such language myself, so I feel I can condemn others for doing so without being hypocritical. Of course, people are free to express themselves as they see fit, but that doesn't mean they're free from criticism- something ' freeze peach!'-yellers generally seem to forget or ignore. I feel I am totally justified in taking a tone of moral superiority and non-acceptance to people who insist on being a woman-bashing, homophobic, pro-violence, immature and ignorant macho. Deliberately embracing such values does not deserve compassion. Sure, rappers are products of their environment. Does that mean they can't show growth or should be mollycuddled? Show yourself to be a respectable and respectful person and you'll get my respect.
- I agree with those people who say that having the language and manners of many rappers reflects badly on African-Americans in general.
- DJ Quik might be a genius sonically, but he's an immature reactionary in terms of language. If he wants to be an esteemed artist, I'd dare say he first needs to clean up his act or he can't ever be taken as seriously as he probably feels is his due.
- Quik's name has come up often in this thread and indeed, as has been said, for good reason. However, he is one example among way too many. For those who said that westcoast rap simply is about profanity, vulgarity and the like, sure. However, creators are the ones who define what a genre is about. If rappers decide to move away from certain content, so will the genre itself. By now, I think that expecting some maturity from westcoast rap is far from unreasonable. It would seem far more dignified for 40 year olds to rap about real issues than about guns and bitches and if younger rappers want to make a real mark, they should perhaps consider moving away from the same old, cliched, tired and unoriginal subject matter other and often better rappers have been pushing for decades now.
- ' Failing' is, in retrospect, probably not the best term for what I meant when I wrote the OP. However, I do feel there is an enormous loss of potential among rappers in general and westcoast rap in particular by sticking to essentially immature and vile subject matter instead of upping the ante. In that sense, I'd say the genre hasn't evolved at all: It's the same old nonsense rehashed for the upteenth time, generally speaking.
 - It's quite true that my criticisms can be levelled at many other genres too, however this is a westcoast rap forum so I'm restricting the argument here.

Shut the fuck up

[Z the laidback Virus]

[Sccit]

I don't think u know the definition of a troll, I'm bein sincere when I tell you to shut the fuck up

[TRAX (SFV)]

even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks

heh...what about "the only reason bitch wore panties was to keep her ankles warm" haha I love suga free

[Sccit]

even way back i remember playing 'tip toe' during a DJ set at a lounge bar, perfect track people's heads nodding then quik's verse comes in 'suck on brown round titties....because i speak softly but carrys a big ol dick' got a few funny looks

heh...what about "the only reason bitch wore panties was to keep her ankles warm" haha I love suga free

z the faggot covers his ears when he hears lyrics like these

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

G'z Up, Hoes Down... if that bitch can't swim then she's bound to drizzound!  

...And Z, if there is a problem with rap its definitely not Quik or any of the West Coast rappers... the problem with rap is all the teenage women (and the so-called males who follow them) that support that Snappin and Poppin-Shawty, A$$ A$$ A$$- put yo bootty on the floor-Lollipop-Shaawty got a big old Booty-This Bitch is so Thirsty- Lil MAma- down South Coonery and Bafoonery...   Write about that and you have my support, but leave the legends out West alone.

[Sccit]

G'z Up, Hoes Down... if that bitch can't swim then she's bound to drizzound!  

...And Z, if there is a problem with rap its definitely not Quik or any of the West Coast rappers... the problem with rap is all the teenage women (and the so-called males who follow them) that support that Snappin and Poppin-Shawty, Azz Azz A$$- put yo bootty on the floor-Lollipop-Shaawty got a big old Booty-This Bitch is so Thirsty- Lil MAma- down South Coonery and Bafoonery...   Write about that and you have my support, but leave the legends out West alone.

even that has its place, just when it's over-done and starts saturatin the entire game is when it gets tired

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

even that has its place, just when it's over-done and starts saturatin the entire game is when it gets tired

naw.. it fuccin sucks any day of the week... your sheltered from it because you live out West.  One of the greatest joys of looking through mid-90's Source issues for me is that the South was basically non-existent at that time.  Puts a smile on my face to see a hip-hop world that does not include the South.  You had a few Master P ads, and you had Scarface doin his thing in Texas, and that was it. 

[Sccit]

maybe its worse in kc, but not that bad out here..u know it's not my taste, but what truly makes it terrible is that it was part of the downfall of west coast rap. if u had juvenile back that azz up and mystikal shake ya ass on the side, it's alright, everything is ok...but when that becomes the go-to sound in hip-hop is when shit fucked up, cuzzin

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

maybe its worse in kc, but not that bad out here..u know it's not my taste, but what truly makes it terrible is that it was part of the downfall of west coast rap. if u had juvenile back that azz up and mystikal shake ya ass on the side, it's alright, everything is ok...but when that becomes the go-to sound in hip-hop is when shit fucked up, cuzzin

agreed... if a track like "Back That Azz Up" became a hit every now and then it wouldn't be a huge deal.  Might add some flava to the game or whatever... The problem is that it became a trend and rap fans with a low musical IQ could take to that kind of trash much easier.   The good stuff back in the day usually had to grow on you for a minute, then these down South rappers figured out how to catch the attention of casual fans with short tension spans

[3rd Coast]

Years ago, I read allmusic.com's review of DJ Quik's 'Rhythm-al-ism' and I remember being pissed off by it. It said, and still says:  "Just what rap needs: one more guy boasting about his majestic penis and how good he is at treating women like gutter trash." Back then, I thought this very unfair commentary. Reading the review again, I still feel the reviewer misses the musical quality that's largely responsible for why this album is good to listen to, but I can only agree with that trashing I cited. Over the last five years or so, I've grown as a person and I'd say for the better. I am happy about that because I feel that striving to be the best person you can be and wanting to make the world a better place for everyone you know is a good goal for anyone and should ultimately be every person's desire. However, it has also resulted in me growing ever more uncomfortable with many elements of westcoast rap, which I used to be a fan of and still enjoy in terms of sound. There's a number of reasons for that discomfort.

First, I think the main subject matter in westcoast rap goes completely against what my principles have come to be. I can only condemn and mock misogyny, homophobia, violence, willfull ignorance, crime, gangs and egotism yet those are important subjects and themes in westcoast rap. That list misses drugs and especially weed as a subject. While I'm not and have never been a drug user myself, I suppose anyone who wants to can use drugs even if they perhaps shouldn't. I'm indifferent to it as subject matter, though it certainly gets tiresome to me. Mainstream westcoast rap of course does have a positive side in its subject matter, of course. Unity, friendship, comradery and family are commonly referred to as well, and those are positive values. However, all of those are often drenched in aggression as well; 'We against the other' instead of 'all together'.

That brings us to tribalism; 'Othering' is rampant in westcoast hiphop and then there's the utter stupidity of gangs. As long as westcoast rap excels in promoting a mindset that includes feelings of superioity towards others and condemnation of others it can never be a positive influence.  This is easy to spot in many fans at this forum. They 'ride' for their rapper of choice and go apeshit when he's criticised for whatever and can't deal with differing opinions and lose all rationality they may or may not have had before. Rappers of course do nothing to counter this and instead promote the idolatry around themselves and may well believe in their own hype. There's very little sentimental difference between this on one hand and one tribe of cavemen massacring another one. Both are expressions of a primitive, deplorable, ignorant and contemptible mindset. Once again, westcoast rap promotes rather than acts against such thinking.

I feel that's a great mistake many rappers have made, driven by their fans and vice versa: Rap is a great way for expression, mockery and criticism in a potentially artful way and has often been used to adress real problems in the world and their solutions. However, westcoast rap has done very little of the sort in recent times (not that this a problem confined to westcoast rap), instead specialising in negative messages and setting dreadful examples. I feel that is a lot of squandered potential and a misuse of the power many rappers have as esteemed artists, even if it might be what their fans desire of them.

The fans, oh the fans! Even when I was a lot younger and very positive about westcoast rap (I even explained all its negativity away as 'being honest about the way humans really think about each other), I often felt a little embarassed to tell people I was into it. Why? It's associated with numbskulls who excel in their ignorance, adopt stupid walks, wear ridiculous clothing and jewelry, adopt a horrible faux accent and have an obsession with 'being tough' and ultimately anti-social. This is what I mean when I say many rappers misuse their power over their fans. Of course, dumbfucks will be dumbfucks but those can certainly be trained or educated too. Instead of teaching misogyny, sagging, homophobia and the importance of chains and chain-snatching, rappers might have used their voices to teach or inspire positively. Lost opportunities galore.

Also realise, as this forum often proves, that overcompensation for insecurity or feelings of inferiority seem to underlay westcoast rap, its rappers and its fans to an astonishing degree. It seems logical that music that largely deals with people who are 'the man', get all the money, women and fancy stuff appeals to those who want to be respected, want to feel vindicated and feel entitled to all those things I mentioned. As a teenager, that certainly played a role in me liking westcoast rap, but I've outgrown that and come to appreciate the music more for its rhythm and vibe than for its subject matter, which tends to be dreck and extremely repetitive to me. Perhaps most people will outgrow it. I certainly hope so. If that happens however, it's unlikely to be because of rap itself but more from external influences. What that means is that westcoast rap may well be holding its more pathetic listeners back, making them feel entitled and frustrated or keeping them there rather than leading them to greener psychological pastures. Lost potential again.   

Of course, rappers alone are not all to blame, since clearly people like the negative subject matter and labels sell it. We can all name examples of rappers who started out with a message but lost that along the way. Even so, the medium also molds the consumer so we are probably looking at a vicious circle here. Yet, pandering to the ignorant and validating their negative or anti-social feelings is not a good thing and that energy could have been spent far better. That many a rapper appears to be an ignoramus himself or herself isn't helpful either.

I don't want to end this post without giving special mention to misogyny, because I consider that one of the most insidious elements of westcoast rap (and rap in general). Misogyny is not endemic to rap in the sense that it only exists there. Mockery, objectification and hatred of women is very common. Just look at any commentary on any women that appear online in whatever way possible. However, I feel it is perhaps the most negative aspect of westcoast rap in a way. This because it is something so widespread and which all listeners of westcoast rap are going to come across or propagate in their lifes, unlike gangs or drug dealers which many listeners are probably never going to really experience. Women however are everywhere and this means that a culture that promotes misogyny is likely to have a direct negative outcome in the lifes of many people. Promoting mutually respectful and loving relationships between men and women (or just about anyone) is a lot more commendable than spreading hatred and vitriol and promoting that other human beings are sub-human in one way or another. Unfortunately, westcoast hiphop has largely failed to realise or express that, meaning it feeds toxicity into society and interpersonal relationships. Wasted potential, and that's putting it mildly.

Nowadays, I have to agree with what that reviewer said about 'Rhytm-a-lism'. It is a horrible album in subject matter. To me, however the experience is bittersweet. I love the beats and melodies on the album and I think both DJ Quik and his guests do a great job throughout in adding to those beats and melodies vocally. It's a shame that they fill that atmosphere with shit in terms of what they actually say. A wasted opportunity and thus exemplary of westcoast rap.

u do know the guy who wrote the review for the quik album..reviews jazz and also a hypocrite..

how he dislike...no doubt..and said what he said..then on a entirely different site pertaining to jazz..one of his favorite song is come by prince...i been followin chris for yrs..jazz is his niche...

had he reviewed the production he would have an entirely different review...

thats like me goin to review gospel music n sayin jus what gospel music need another person singin about jesus..

chris didnt know he was just doin it to be doin it.

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

u do know the guy who wrote the review for the quik album..reviews jazz and also a hypocrite..

how he dislike...no doubt..and said what he said..then on a entirely different site pertaining to jazz..one of his favorite song is come by prince...i been followin chris for yrs..jazz is his niche...

had he reviewed the production he would have an entirely different review...

thats like me goin to review gospel music n sayin jus what gospel music need another person singin about jesus..

chris didnt know he was just doin it to be doin it.

Nice post... and I like your analogy of some outsider doing a review of gospel music and saying, "just what we need, another song about Jesus, this shit is played out", LOL.... props

[Raphael]

You sound like huge faggot who pretends to be offended when he hears curse words. I'm tired of people labeling artists as racists and homophobes just because they use certain words. It seems like words speak louder than actions these days.

Also

Shut the fuck up

[TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96']

You sound like huge faggot who pretends to be offended when he hears curse words. I'm tired of people labeling artists as racists and homophobes just because they use certain words. It seems like words speak louder than actions these days.

Also

Shut the fuck up

Z is a female.. one of the few females here, and an O.G. at the forum... she used to be pretty cool (even dated a member on the forum, dubcc love connection  ), but sounds like she feigns herself to be so "mature" now...  Maybe she listens to Dave Mathews Band now because she has grown so much.... I don't buy it, just another O.G. who has sold out

[Sccit]

^lol u thinkin of a different Z, but in essence, he is a female