Eminem vs Rakim

[M Dogg™]

Didn't have to. You are like Eminem doesn't have classics. First that's false, second a lot of great rappers don't have classics. They all may have a great album, but classics are hard to come by. Still Eminem has at least one classic.

How is my opinion subjective but yours objective?

So what's his classic to you? And I'm interested what's the rest of your top 5 goats

well, it's like saying wilt chamberlain isn't an all-time great in basketball.....


you can claim it as an opinion, but it just makes you sound ridiculously dumb.

Basically what Sccit said. It goes like this, there are actual numbers that back up Eminem as an all time great rapper. To deny saying so would be like if I said Larry Bird ISN'T one of the greatest basketball players of all time. I mean, he has the MVP trophies, NBA titles, scoring and everything to back up that he is. Eminem is the same way. You can deny it all you want, but there is even solid numbers to back up Eminem as an all time great.

If you want record sales, Eminem is the highest selling rap artist of all time. If you want something that measures vocabulary, there was a study that measured vocabulary. I was wrong originally, I thought Canibus was number 1 largest vocabulary, he was number 4 at 5,991 unique words. Number 1 was Aesop Rock at 7,392 unique words used. If you look at the top 10, they are so far above everyone else. I mean, these must truly be the GOATs of rapper, so surely Rakim must be up at 6,000, maybe 7,000, I mean no less that 5,000 unique words. He is after all the best lyricist ever. Well Rakim is at 4,621 unique worlds used, just below LL Cool J at 4,743. Eminem is at 4,494 unique words used. Basically Rakim and Eminem are clustered in the middle of all these other rappers with vocab size. But album rankings, surely if Eminem is just a pop act, surely his albums must not get much love from the critics. Well...

Slim Shady LP, Mixed reviews, 5/5 from Allmusic, Rolling Stone 3.5/5, Entertainment Weekly C+
Marshall Mathers LP, High reviews, XXL, Rolling Stone 5/5, Entertainment Weekly A-, LA Times, 3.5/4, Vibe 5/5
Eminem Show, High Reviews, XL, Rolling Stone 4/5. Entertainment Weekly B+, HipHopDX 4.5/5, Vibe 4/5


So pretty good for the first 3 albums. I mean I can go on, but I want to get to Rakim...

Paid in Full, High reviews, The Source 5/5, Rolling Stone 5/5, NY Times favorable, Allmusic 5/5
Follow the Leader, high reviews, Rolling Stone 4.5/5, Allmusic 5/5, LA Times 3.5/4,
Let the Rhythm Hit 'Em, High/Mixed reviews, Allmusic 3/5, Entertainment Weekly B-, LA Times 4/5, Rolling Stone 4/5

Those are just the first three albums of both artist. I'm not going further than that to prove a point.

But the point is this. Any measurement you want with Eminem, it's all there. You want titles, Eminem has high album reviews, you want scoring, Eminem has sales. In terms of songs with meaning, he has a lot of them, and he has just as many as Rakim. So I am not sure what you are measuring Eminem on. He's got everything you can ask for in a rapper when deciding the greatest ever.

Oh, and you wanted my top 5... In order... 5. Melle Mel, 4. Eminem, 3. 2Pac, 2. Rakim, 1. Nas

[Will_B]

Your top 5 is interesting to me and I appreciate that. But really? Throwing record sales and mass media reviews at an argument doesn't do anything to prove who is better (that's like saying its fact that Harry Potter is the best film of all time)

For me to say Em who had 2 great abums and still a string of hits after that, could be probably in a top 20 rappers is generous (but still possible) to say he's even CLOSE to a top 5 is ridiculous to me. How many pioneers of rap came before Eminem with classics under their belt? How many great MCs with or without classic albums? 100s. So why pick Em. Dre to me isn't a goat MC or a lyricist but The Chronic is a stone cold classic. If you're saying MMLP or SSLP are up there with The Chronic then I'm tapping out cause we ain't gonna see eye to eye on this

[M Dogg™]

Your top 5 is interesting to me and I appreciate that. But really? Throwing record sales and mass media reviews at an argument doesn't do anything to prove who is better (that's like saying its fact that Harry Potter is the best film of all time)

For me to say Em who had 2 great abums and still a string of hits after that, could be probably in a top 20 rappers is generous (but still possible) to say he's even CLOSE to a top 5 is ridiculous to me. How many pioneers of rap came before Eminem with classics under their belt? How many great MCs with or without classic albums? 100s. So why pick Em. Dre to me isn't a goat MC or a lyricist but The Chronic is a stone cold classic. If you're saying MMLP or SSLP are up there with The Chronic then I'm tapping out cause we ain't gonna see eye to eye on this

Because up until his comeback, Eminem was in my top 15, but not top 5. But his comeback proved longevity, he broke 2Pac's all time sales record and I really liked Recovery. So much like putting Nas at number 1, I had to re-evaluate my top 10 list and I had to look at it differently. So I looked at albums, I looked at longevity, quality of longevity, influence, impact, and in all of those Eminem is an all time great. As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

[Will_B]

As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO

Peace brother!

[M Dogg™]

As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO

Peace brother!

Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.

Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.

[Will_B]

As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO

Peace brother!

Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.

Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.

Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's

And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin

[Sccit]

to be fair, i thought recovery was garbage....but mmlp2 was a really good album. probably his best in 10 years. either way, as usual, will is trippin again.

[M Dogg™]

As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO

Peace brother!

Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.

Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.

Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's

And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin

In my ratings, Rakim>Eminem. But compared to other rappers, Eminem has few peers.

[Will_B]

As for the pioneers, many of their careers only lasted 5 years tops. Longevity is not something many greats have. And to me, that's important.

I agree that shit is rare. And Nas is one of the survivors. I'm not with you on Em's comeback though. Eminem Show was a slight drop off from the first two, but since his albums have been decent at best IMO

Peace brother!

Even MMLP2 which is universally seen as a great album. I haven't heard it yet, but it got better reviews than Recovery, and I loved Recovery. I just haven't had time to listen to MMLP2 whole album, but I did enjoy all the singles, but I didn't factor that album into my Eminem ratings.

Also, not one artist has a consistent catalog. They all have peaks and valleys, even Nas himself. And Rakim.

Great albums don't = classics. My original point stands. Rakims best solo > Em's

And MMLP2 is decent, but it went in the trash after one spin

In my ratings, Rakim>Eminem. But compared to other rappers, Eminem has few peers.

No doubt. Aside from Nas, he's at the top of the tree for mainstream rappers still. I'm always gonna check his new ish