Kendrick's "To Pimp A Butterfly" is the evolution revolution of Hip Hop

[CORREA]

Of course its opinion, but undeserved masterpieces rarely last. What I mean by clasic vs mastepiece is that a classic is something that everyone with in a genre of art can say that is amazing. A masterpiece is something that breaks the genre and speaks to the hearts, minds and souls of people that just love art and aren't limited or even fans of the genre of that art.

Scarface is a classic. Fans of of gangster films all love it. Godfather is a Masterpiece. Fans of art love it. People that love art; the human expression of one's inner most thoughts and emotions are not going to in large numbers ever come to love Scarface. But will for Godfather.

But fans stuck inside genres can't see past that. There are plenty of fans of just gangster and action films and they'll die by Scarface and can't imagine why anyone would say Godfather. Art, like Science has people that can't grasp it.

A quote; Art; in the end its all subjective, but in the beginning its all objective.

You can't successfully break the rules of art until you've mastered them. Picasso could sketch your face like a photograph. After learning all the rules and laws of drawing and painting, then he broke them and and decided to go abstract.

Illmatic is one of those pieces of art. Nothing by Em or Jay, or Kanye come close to something like that. I don't know if Kendrick's last album will be one of those. I may say in two weeks I was way off. But I know Nas, and Em and Jay's work very well and only Nas on one album ever reached that.

Tupac had songs that were masterpieces, but never an album, and that was mainly due to him making albums too long or having too many of his friends on them. Me Against the World gets ruined by filler and the Outlawz, but very well could have been a masterpiece. If Illmatic had 4 more tacks thrat were filler party songs and 3 or 4 guests on half the tracks it would have fell apart too.

Agree with all of that, other than 'Pac not having a masterpiece... lol. I think Me Against the World is, and Makaveli.

I mentioned this with my first listen review to the album, it's a masterpiece. This holds up against great music in general. When I think of Hip-Hop classics, Good Kid m.A.A.d City comes to mind, but To Pimp a Butterfly is an artist masterpiece. It doesn't mean the Hip-Hop community will see it as a Hip-Hop classic. But without a doubt, some albums are classics, but it doesn't mean they transcend to art, and some albums are artistically amazing, but it doesn't mean that it will be a classic.

But right now, this album is a masterpiece. Kendrick may have put out the album which solidifies him as the best reaper of his era. It's too soon to tell, but it wouldn't be a stretch. He speaks to many emotions, the struggle of black America, the inner workings of the industry and dealing with his own personal demons through all of this. It's a complex album which either ups the game or is ignored as everyone else does their own thing. I know this, for the first time since Eminem's Recovery album, I went out and bought a physical CD. I went and grabbed a copy because I feel so strongly about this album that I blew up his listens on Spotify and I bought the disc. I may never open that disc, but I wanted to make sure that album has at least one sale from me.

I might get bored of that album, but right now, I doubt it. There is so much to dissect that every time I listen I hear something new.

Me Against The World has masterpiece songs on it. It just doesn't string together quite right. Just cut a couple tracks and cut the Outlaw parts on the title track and its there. Its definitely as close as it gets. Makaveli is amazing too. It just falls a bit with the diss tracks. And even songs like Me and My Girlfriend, which I love the concept of and its put together fantastically, it just doesn't hit the high art soul of most of Me Against The World, or a lot of that album.

And the level of soul Pac hits on those tracks really shows how far ahead he was than the rest, then and now. Pac definitely had the capability and ability to release a high art masterpiece head to toe, but purposely got in the way of it it seemed to allow outside forces to influence the output.

I see where you are coming from. I can agree with MATW, though I judge that based on Hip-Hop albums of the time, and where Hip-Hop was. Outside of Illmatic, MATW was the closest a Hip-Hop artist got to masterpiece level. But the features did mess it up a bit and messed up the flow.

Now for Makaveli, I would argue that part of Hip-Hop is the diss record. Bomb First might have been the most lyrical diss record put out in the 90's. It was straight heat from 2Pac's part. But the Outlawz did come in and they weren't as good as 2Pac. And Against All Odds did seem a bit out of place. But as Hip-Hop albums, they'll go down as classics. So I see your point. I'd still argue Makaveli was a masterpiece when you look at the art form of rap music and the importance of the diss record. But I can see the counter point.

What's sad to remember, 2Pac was 25 when he died. Kendrick is a young artist now, and he's already 27. Drake is in his prime and he's 28. Jay-Z was 26 when he finally released Reasonable Doubt. And when 'Pac dies, every album was better than the last and you felt like his best work was still in the future. To see what 'Pac could have done if he was still alive might be the biggest question. Could he have put out that transformative album that he seemed so close to putting out, could he have reached his artist peak, when what we saw was already so far ahead of everyone else at the time?

But we have what we have, and for right now it's a look at how Kendrick stacks up. Like I mentioned, I'm not sure if this album will be seen as a Hip-Hop classic, but it's such a great piece of art that does that matter? I'm almost wondering if by labeling it a Hip-Hop classic, might that be too limiting to what Kendrick did? I don't know. Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe it's time to expect more from Hip-Hop. It think what Sccit fails to see is this album in the bigger picture. This album might be the classic Hip-Hop album that MATW is, or other great Hip-Hop albums, but what does that say about Hip-Hop as a genre? I don't know. But I hope other young artist step their game up.

it says hip hop is changing again evolving into something else the shit rappers will stick to the trap cause that's the only way they will be heard with people only caring bout the beat and of course the rappers doing that trap shit will have the same flow others will try to do their own thing but they better have charisma or they will be dead in the water and labeled as boring there's plenty of good and underrated rappers out there hope they can catch up to Kendrick cause he just set the bar even higher cause unlike the other rappers he doesn't need to make club/party or talk bout money and hoes in every song to sell he has the support of the people and that's what matters the most
i don't think there's anyone out there that has all the tools that can touch Kendrick right now if there is some one let it be known

[Sccit]

lol 2pac doesnt have a master piece but kendrick lamar does.......thats good

You purposely left out that I said Tupac's lack of masterpiece was done by his own hand. I said Pac was the better artist but let the poltics ruin his albums. If Kendrick had blatant dis tracks ln ths album or let his crew ruin songs by rapping in the middle of them then Butterfly would not be as good as MATW or Makaveli.

Kendrick's best attribute as rapper s knowing that no more verses or lines are needed.

2pac captured the essence of his life by including those features...made the album mroe organic+wouldnt have been the same without it. i havent heard the kendrick yet, but it sounds to me like youre sayin that albums should be more contrived. that was not 2pacs style and thats exactly why everything he touched was a masterpiece.

[BONeZ]

loved the outro interview with pac, like it was a dream or something and that caterpillar evolving into a butterfly theory was pure madness....

[Shallow]

lol 2pac doesnt have a master piece but kendrick lamar does.......thats good

You purposely left out that I said Tupac's lack of masterpiece was done by his own hand. I said Pac was the better artist but let the poltics ruin his albums. If Kendrick had blatant dis tracks ln ths album or let his crew ruin songs by rapping in the middle of them then Butterfly would not be as good as MATW or Makaveli.

Kendrick's best attribute as rapper s knowing that no more verses or lines are needed.

2pac captured the essence of his life by including those features...made the album mroe organic+wouldnt have been the same without it. i havent heard the kendrick yet, but it sounds to me like youre sayin that albums should be more contrived. that was not 2pacs style and thats exactly why everything he touched was a masterpiece.

They don't have to be more contrived to be a masterpiece, but a masterpiece has to be as close to perfection as human art can get, and there are too many flaws, if only just a few, on Pac's albums.

Also contrived isnt a necessity, but concise is. Once you've said what you wanted to say, lyrically, and musically, you move on. Repeating the point, or prolonging it hurts the art. Think of the Mona Lisa. Davinci wanted to paint that half smile to entice the the viewer. It could mean refrained jubilation, happiness about to break, or even a fake smile for I know. He had an idea and a message he wanted to convey. If he had brought in his fucking homies to draw background people to further cement the emotion Leo was going for it would have taken away from from the picture and it would have fallen from Masterpiece to great portait.

Not every rap song has to be three 16 bar verses and three choruses. Some thing are said best shorter, some longer. Some can get too short some too long. Had All Eyez on Me been a single disc that ended with When We Ride and When We Ride had stopped suddenly at 1:01 it would have been far more artistically effective that it was with the 5 added dragging on minutes of the Outlaws and even still woul you would have ended the album yearning for more. Kind of like the last snippet of a verse on NY NY by Kurupt.

 Its things like that, that the artist in a bubble would probably love to do, but his business side gets in the way. Had a record company came to Pac while in jail and said will let Johnny J come in and record an album with you and we want the best you can give us he would have come out with a masterpiece like no other. But when you tell a genius that he can help out his friends, defend a whole coast, and better make hits or the album won't be a success then you are asking for it to fall short.

[Sccit]

lol 2pac doesnt have a master piece but kendrick lamar does.......thats good

You purposely left out that I said Tupac's lack of masterpiece was done by his own hand. I said Pac was the better artist but let the poltics ruin his albums. If Kendrick had blatant dis tracks ln ths album or let his crew ruin songs by rapping in the middle of them then Butterfly would not be as good as MATW or Makaveli.

Kendrick's best attribute as rapper s knowing that no more verses or lines are needed.

2pac captured the essence of his life by including those features...made the album mroe organic+wouldnt have been the same without it. i havent heard the kendrick yet, but it sounds to me like youre sayin that albums should be more contrived. that was not 2pacs style and thats exactly why everything he touched was a masterpiece.

They don't have to be more contrived to be a masterpiece, but a masterpiece has to be as close to perfection as human art can get, and there are too many flaws, if only just a few, on Pac's albums.

Also contrived isnt a necessity, but concise is. Once you've said what you wanted to say, lyrically, and musically, you move on. Repeating the point, or prolonging it hurts the art. Think of the Mona Lisa. Davinci wanted to paint that half smile to entice the the viewer. It could mean refrained jubilation, happiness about to break, or even a fake smile for I know. He had an idea and a message he wanted to convey. If he had brought in his fucking homies to draw background people to further cement the emotion Leo was going for it would have taken away from from the picture and it would have fallen from Masterpiece to great portait.

Not every rap song has to be three 16 bar verses and three choruses. Some thing are said best shorter, some longer. Some can get too short some too long. Had All Eyez on Me been a single disc that ended with When We Ride and When We Ride had stopped suddenly at 1:01 it would have been far more artistically effective that it was with the 5 added dragging on minutes of the Outlaws and even still woul you would have ended the album yearning for more. Kind of like the last snippet of a verse on NY NY by Kurupt.

 Its things like that, that the artist in a bubble would probably love to do, but his business side gets in the way. Had a record company came to Pac while in jail and said will let Johnny J come in and record an album with you and we want the best you can give us he would have come out with a masterpiece like no other. But when you tell a genius that he can help out his friends, defend a whole coast, and better make hits or the album won't be a success then you are asking for it to fall short.

i disagree...i think the organic feel of me against the world, and pretty much every pac album, is a contributing factor to it's natural feel. that's what made pac a class act...the rawness+the realness=the reason his shits classic. pac was not a mechanically contrived artist like kendrick (or even dr. dre for that matter). his greatness was in the feeling he captured, and havin the outlawz on his albums are a big reason they have that unmatched authentic feel. the energy created by pac is unrivaled, and part of that energy is comin from his lil homies. but you probably dont understand that, considering you're putting this kendrick album on top of any pac album ever made......opinions are like assholes, everybody got um. but in this instance, shit comin off rotten.

[Shallow]

i disagree...i think the organic feel of me against the world, and pretty much every pac album, is a contributing factor to it's natural feel. that's what made pac a class act...the rawness+the realness=the reason his shits classic. pac was not a mechanically contrived artist like kendrick (or even dr. dre for that matter). his greatness was in the feeling he captured, and havin the outlawz on his albums are a big reason they have that unmatched authentic feel. the energy created by pac is unrivaled, and part of that energy is comin from his lil homies. but you probably dont understand that, considering you're putting this kendrick album on top of any pac album ever made......opinions are like assholes, everybody got um. but in this instance, shit comin off rotten.

I could care less about the artist as far as the type of men they are when I am appreciating the art. I have no reference on Kendrick. I've never even heard his first album, even now. And I'm not debating whether or not Pac's natural class helped his albums naturally flow better. I'm saying the albums in questioned had too many flaws and detractors for me to consider them Masterpieces. Every time I pick up a Pac album I find my self skipping or fastforwarding way too often.

I won't use Butterfly as an example because its still fresh to my ears, but if I go a whole year without listening to Darkness on the Edge of Town and I sit and listen to it, I can't bring myself to stop until its done. I can't skip a track, get bored half way though a verse, or even disrupt the feeling by pressing rewind. Dude left Because The Night, and Fire off the album, two guaranteed top ten hits (and became hits for the artists he gave the tracks away too), because they didn't fit the theme and tone of the album.


Its not about contriving, or rigidly forcing yourself to keep a certain something the whole way, its about realizing you have perfection, and no amount of human regard, or personality, or style, or commerce should get in and ruin the entity that is perfect the way it is once you realize that it is. I can't imagine Pac saying I'm leaving those songs off the record when his manager, label mates, and producers are all begging him wit the notion that these hits will buy us bigger houses.

Its the difference between Nas in 94 and Nas in 96. In 94 he was striving for perfection and greatness, in 96 he was striving for stardom and fame. I can't say for sure that 94 Nas would have been the type to turn down hits. I'm saying Illmatic was what it was and never faltered.

[Sccit]

i disagree...i think the organic feel of me against the world, and pretty much every pac album, is a contributing factor to it's natural feel. that's what made pac a class act...the rawness+the realness=the reason his shits classic. pac was not a mechanically contrived artist like kendrick (or even dr. dre for that matter). his greatness was in the feeling he captured, and havin the outlawz on his albums are a big reason they have that unmatched authentic feel. the energy created by pac is unrivaled, and part of that energy is comin from his lil homies. but you probably dont understand that, considering you're putting this kendrick album on top of any pac album ever made......opinions are like assholes, everybody got um. but in this instance, shit comin off rotten.

I could care less about the artist as far as the type of men they are when I am appreciating the art. I have no reference on Kendrick. I've never even heard his first album, even now. And I'm not debating whether or not Pac's natural class helped his albums naturally flow better. I'm saying the albums in questioned had too many flaws and detractors for me to consider them Masterpieces. Every time I pick up a Pac album I find my self skipping or fastforwarding way too often.

I won't use Butterfly as an example because its still fresh to my ears, but if I go a whole year without listening to Darkness on the Edge of Town and I sit and listen to it, I can't bring myself to stop until its done. I can't skip a track, get bored half way though a verse, or even disrupt the feeling by pressing rewind. Dude left Because The Night, and Fire off the album, two guaranteed top ten hits (and became hits for the artists he gave the tracks away too), because they didn't fit the theme and tone of the album.


Its not about contriving, or rigidly forcing yourself to keep a certain something the whole way, its about realizing you have perfection, and no amount of human regard, or personality, or style, or commerce should get in and ruin the entity that is perfect the way it is once you realize that it is. I can't imagine Pac saying I'm leaving those songs off the record when his manager, label mates, and producers are all begging him wit the notion that these hits will buy us bigger houses.

Its the difference between Nas in 94 and Nas in 96. In 94 he was striving for perfection and greatness, in 96 he was striving for stardom and fame. I can't say for sure that 94 Nas would have been the type to turn down hits. I'm saying Illmatic was what it was and never faltered.

SOMETIMES, IT'S THE IMPERFECTIONS THAT MAKES SHIT JUST RIGHT

[David Gutterman]

Great album BTW, great replay value! good shit! Proper music

[CORREA]

Great album BTW, great replay value! good shit! Proper music

yeah lots of quality's in one missing today

[Shallow]

SOMETIMES, IT'S THE IMPERFECTIONS THAT MAKES SHIT JUST RIGHT

I agree, but I didn't use the word imperfection. I used the word flaw, and I used it on purpose. An imperfection is the little mole on Eva Mendez's cheek. Its beautiful and makes her more beautiful. A flaw would be a penis between Eva Mendez's legs. And thats what the Outlaws are on Me Against the World, a giant out of place penis between two masterpiece verses.

In a more serious and artistically related matter, an imperfection could be something like a slightly out of tune guitar creating the perfect sound of a note in the riff, or the rain drop shadows coming down the face of Robert Bl;ake's character at the end of the film. It was a mistake, and they were about to reshoot the scene because the first thing Director Richard Brooks saw were shadows from the rain interfering in the face shot, but after a few seconds he and cinematographer Conrad Hall realized it was perfect because the rain was doing the crying for the sad man that would not show emotion on the eve of his execution. Adding the Outlaws to a track is like ending a film with a 25 second dolly shot of your boys new clothing lime logo that h as nothing to do with the story of the film.

And I don't mean to harp on those guys. On tracks like Hit Em Up they come in perfectly, but on serious pieces of music they take away from the desired result.

[Sccit]

SOMETIMES, IT'S THE IMPERFECTIONS THAT MAKES SHIT JUST RIGHT

I agree, but I didn't use the word imperfection. I used the word flaw, and I used it on purpose. An imperfection is the little mole on Eva Mendez's cheek. Its beautiful and makes her more beautiful. A flaw would be a penis between Eva Mendez's legs. And thats what the Outlaws are on Me Against the World, a giant out of place penis between two masterpiece verses.

In a more serious and artistically related matter, an imperfection could be something like a slightly out of tune guitar creating the perfect sound of a note in the riff, or the rain drop shadows coming down the face of Robert Bl;ake's character at the end of the film. It was a mistake, and they were about to reshoot the scene because the first thing Director Richard Brooks saw were shadows from the rain interfering in the face shot, but after a few seconds he and cinematographer Conrad Hall realized it was perfect because the rain was doing the crying for the sad man that would not show emotion on the eve of his execution. Adding the Outlaws to a track is like ending a film with a 25 second dolly shot of your boys new clothing lime logo that h as nothing to do with the story of the film.

And I don't mean to harp on those guys. On tracks like Hit Em Up they come in perfectly, but on serious pieces of music they take away from the desired result.

well, there u go....if u see the outlawz as a cock (white man version), then there lies the problem. i see the outlawz as a mole or a raindrop shadow and i can genuinely feel what they bring to the table.

[jmix]

Evolution of hip hop? nah. original guy with some original tunes? YES.

I love kendrick.

have since GKMC

but this album?

slightly overrated.

its like hiphop fans are so damn thirsty for good tunes that they over-rate albums that are "aiiiighhhhtt"

The Mona Lisa of hip hop this is not.

As a follow up to basically the hubub of Big Sean's record?

lackluster.

And I buy his albums, have love for Kdot, etc..

but I dont see the EVOLUTION of hip hop in this album.

my 2 cents.

[jmix]

I'll only adress the  Nas claim because Kanye isnt worth , my time.

Illmatic is what it is, a masterpiece. Everything else Nas did is far from a masterpiece. Butterfly is shaping up like it may be a masterpiece. So by logic, Butterfly is better. Jay has zero masterpieces. Neither does Em.

A classic album isn't always a masterpiece. Jay and Em have classics, not masterpieces, but very few artists have one. Springsteen has 2, but thats very rare.


I am open to the idea that Butterfly falls off with time. I thought Stillmatic was almost masterpiece when it came out. It has not hold up years later.

The major difference for me between Still and Butterfly was that at the height of my Jay Z hatred I desperately wanted to love the news Nas album and over hyped it to myself when it hit. Its still better than Blueprint but its not better than Written or I Am.

With Kendrick I was on a years long hip hop drought and looked for reasons to dislike it, and after first listen was ready to dismiss it. But with listen 2 and 3 it stood out to warrant listens 10 and 11.

I wont be ready to call it a masterpiece until I revisit it years from now and see how I feel then. With BTR and Darkness, or Illmatic, I revisit them once a year and feel as great about them everytime.

agree 100 percent about nas, disagree about em. I am not an EM fan. I never bump his shit since EARLY 2000's... but The Marshal Mathers EP was a masterpiece. Good from start to finish with dope production and lyrics.

[Shallow]

well, there u go....if u see the outlawz as a cock (white man version), then there lies the problem. i see the outlawz as a mole or a raindrop shadow and i can genuinely feel what they bring to the table.

If you genuinely feel that

See ladies in stores, Baby Capone's, livin wealthy
Pictures of my birth on this Earth is what I'm dreamin
Seein Daddy's semen, full of crooked demons, already crazy


placed in between;


Witnessin killings, leavin dead bodies in abandoned buildings
Can't raise the children cause they're illin
Addicted to killin and the appeal from the cap peelin
Without feelin, but will they last or be blasted?
Hard headed bastard

and this;

The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest? Through this supression
They punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even a genius asks-es questions
Be grateful for blessings


makes the whole song better, and without Dramacydal the song would suffer, then more power to you, but there are more people on this earth than think Gary Fisher was more vital for the Lakers than Kobe, than there are that think the Oulaws were vital to the success of Tupac's artistic merit.

[Sccit]

well, there u go....if u see the outlawz as a cock (white man version), then there lies the problem. i see the outlawz as a mole or a raindrop shadow and i can genuinely feel what they bring to the table.

If you genuinely feel that

See ladies in stores, Baby Capone's, livin wealthy
Pictures of my birth on this Earth is what I'm dreamin
Seein Daddy's semen, full of crooked demons, already crazy


placed in between;


Witnessin killings, leavin dead bodies in abandoned buildings
Can't raise the children cause they're illin
Addicted to killin and the appeal from the cap peelin
Without feelin, but will they last or be blasted?
Hard headed bastard

and this;

The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest? Through this supression
They punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even a genius asks-es questions
Be grateful for blessings


makes the whole song better, and without Dramacydal the song would suffer, then more power to you, but there are more people on this earth than think Gary Fisher was more vital for the Lakers than Kobe, than there are that think the Oulaws were vital to the success of Tupac's artistic merit.

I think you meant Derek Fisher lol but yea I know what you mean .. and those lyrics are all real to me. the Derek fisher analogy was actually perfect, because outlaws were the role players and pac was the star .. a sport fan like yourself should understand just how vital those role players are to the big picture.