Author Topic: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"  (Read 2638 times)

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2016, 07:17:07 PM »
Quit whining already! If I could hear your post you would probably sound like a cat in heat.
Go away bro and leave this discussion to people who genuinely want to know the truth.
You only want to defend Dre at all cost despite of the evidence. You're a Stan. It's cool bro I've been there too. But sooner or later you have to grow up. If you really wanted to know about this situation you would do more than just watch the short video I posted. Some of the excuses you made up to explain away this situation have already been answered by other outlets that reported on this subject. So you look like a fool throwing that hail mary. It's actually embarrassing reading it. You're asking me if he won the lawsuit, I should be asking you the way you have exonerated Aftermath/Dre. You're a mod here? SMH The point of a message board is to have discussion. Who cares if YOU like the discussion or not? Because I damn sure don't. This thread wont just magically go away because you want it to.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 07:21:05 PM by abusive »
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2016, 07:31:04 PM »
- Doggy Dogg World demo made by Daz.

Now go and play the finished product put by Dre and hear the difference.
Not trying to be funny but I don't really see your point. The beat just sounds unmixed and mastered. Still the same beat. You can get a beat mixed and mastered for a few dollars a million places and the person doing it isn't entitled to a lifetime of royalties.

either you deaf, or you simply don't know what your talking about. It ain't THE SAME beat - Daz provided a good skeleton for a beat, but Dre took it to another level. Daz demo had potential, but it was Dre who took that muthafucka to another level - point blank.

As far as credits are concerned - I personally think Daz should be included as a co-producer on that one, but that dosen't change the fact, that it was Dre who made "Doggy Dogg World" what it was music-wise. If Daz version ended up as the retail one, I'll bet it would be one of the worst and most skipped tracks on "Doggystyle", and even dope lyrics couldn't save it - straight up.

If you want to hear a difference between unmixed/unmastered version of a final product - bump "NY87" or "Every Single Day" from recently leaked reels and compare it to mixed versions made by Effrain. That's what mixing/mastering does - Dre goes waaay beyond that most of the times when it comes the beats, that was separates him from YouTube beatmakers.


Do I think Death Row fucked up many credits in booklet? Yes, they did. Is Dre partly responsible for it? Yes he is, because he was a part-owner of that company. But to sit here and talk like people were giving him finished products and he just put his name on it instead of giving credit is just insane.

And you can see he learn his lesson on Aftermath - now you can see in booklets who provided bass, guitar, piano keys, etc. They all included - but if someone says with a straight face that for example Scott Storch produced "Still Dre", he must be out of his mind.

I agree that Daz provided a good skeleton and that Dre took it to a new level. What's the problem here? I can still here the skeleton though and a good mix can make a bland beat sound better even to the point where it sound like a different beat.

The problem with most of you is that you want to give one person the credit and not the other. I don't disagree that Dre produced on this. But I also don't disagree that session players and the person who made the skeleton produced on it as well.

I have already acknowledged I can here some changes so I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other guy, what is your argument? It just seems you and him want to defend Dre at all cost when I'm not even accusing him of anything.

As far people giving him the finished product and him putting his name on it, that very well may be true. You can say that's not the case and keep going by Doggy Dogg World as the example as to why it's not true. It's not good enough. The other interview I posted the other day leads me to believe that that does take place. Not everyone who comes along is where Daz was back in the day. I'm sure they get music regularly that don't need anything done and if they can spend a few dollars to help build the Dre brand then I'm sure that happens as well. Sorry you guys don't know how the music industry really works.

Back to the Scott Storch thing. I think I have explained it but I'll go back. Scott did produce on the song simply because he played the keys. I'm still fascinated in how anyone could argue that the people making the music (the people making the beat and session players) aren't part of the production process but the person who didn't make any music at all is. That's some grimy old school mafia music industry talk that needs to be done away with in 2016. I don't care what anyone says artist need to stand up for their rights. I'm not saying he produced the song because the song is a marriage between the music and the vocals. What I'm saying is that his input went into the production of the song so he should get production credits, which I'm sure he did.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2016, 07:42:46 PM »
Quit whining already! If I could hear your post you would probably sound like a cat in heat.
Go away bro and leave this discussion to people who genuinely want to know the truth.
You only want to defend Dre at all cost despite of the evidence. You're a Stan. It's cool bro I've been there too. But sooner or later you have to grow up. If you really wanted to know about this situation you would do more than just watch the short video I posted. Some of the excuses you made up to explain away this situation have already been answered by other outlets that reported on this subject. So you look like a fool throwing that hail mary. It's actually embarrassing reading it. You're asking me if he won the lawsuit, I should be asking you the way you have exonerated Aftermath/Dre. You're a mod here? SMH The point of a message board is to have discussion. Who cares if YOU like the discussion or not? Because I damn sure don't. This thread wont just magically go away because you want it to.  ;D


Aside from how sensitive you comin off right now, you also sound like a teenage female "go away!"  lmao.. If u wana debate me, do it like a man. I'm not even reading past that
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2016, 10:44:31 AM »
Debate you?  ;D You don't remember being destroyed over the Jew question? lol I didn't even have to get into my archaeological bag because you were no match for me and honestly there was no need to take it there. You're not on my level kiddo. I get it in. You probably just want to go back and forth because you like the manner in which I speak? If you want to do a text battle in the studio section though we can. I'll smack that Freddy mask and yamaka off you at the same damn time.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2016, 11:27:37 AM »
Debate you?  ;D You don't remember being destroyed over the Jew question? lol I didn't even have to get into my archaeological bag because you were no match for me and honestly there was no need to take it there. You're not on my level kiddo. I get it in. You probably just want to go back and forth because you like the manner in which I speak? If you want to do a text battle in the studio section though we can. I'll smack that Freddy mask and yamaka off you at the same damn time.


You try way too hard bro
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2016, 03:48:11 PM »
You don't try hard enough.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2016, 04:05:51 PM »
You don't try hard enough.


i dont need to try, i just do it like nike brodie.......trying leaves room for failure. and thats why u steady failin in your quest to gain ground wit your desperation attempts at shittin on the goat producer in hip-hop. only reason u turned this into a me vs. you thing is because your insecurity was stronger than your points. i see u.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2016, 08:18:10 PM »
^allah gon' whoop you if you don't shut up and go away.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2016, 10:14:07 PM »
^allah gon' whoop you if you don't shut up and go away.



"Shut up and go away" more female talk masked by a corny joke. get out your feelins n back on topic dawgy. Topic is about Dre not how I make u feel.

 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2016, 11:14:09 AM »
Let's play a game called silence of the lamb.
Rules: you shut up.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #110 on: April 30, 2016, 11:41:21 AM »
not guna tell u again...stop playin them gayass games n stay on topic.
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2016, 12:57:17 PM »
I agree that Daz provided a good skeleton and that Dre took it to a new level. What's the problem here? I can still here the skeleton though and a good mix can make a bland beat sound better even to the point where it sound like a different beat.

The problem with most of you is that you want to give one person the credit and not the other. I don't disagree that Dre produced on this. But I also don't disagree that session players and the person who made the skeleton produced on it as well.

I have already acknowledged I can here some changes so I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other guy, what is your argument? It just seems you and him want to defend Dre at all cost when I'm not even accusing him of anything.

As far people giving him the finished product and him putting his name on it, that very well may be true. You can say that's not the case and keep going by Doggy Dogg World as the example as to why it's not true. It's not good enough. The other interview I posted the other day leads me to believe that that does take place. Not everyone who comes along is where Daz was back in the day. I'm sure they get music regularly that don't need anything done and if they can spend a few dollars to help build the Dre brand then I'm sure that happens as well. Sorry you guys don't know how the music industry really works.

Back to the Scott Storch thing. I think I have explained it but I'll go back. Scott did produce on the song simply because he played the keys. I'm still fascinated in how anyone could argue that the people making the music (the people making the beat and session players) aren't part of the production process but the person who didn't make any music at all is. That's some grimy old school mafia music industry talk that needs to be done away with in 2016. I don't care what anyone says artist need to stand up for their rights. I'm not saying he produced the song because the song is a marriage between the music and the vocals. What I'm saying is that his input went into the production of the song so he should get production credits, which I'm sure he did.

It ain't about a "good mix" - Dre changed completely what Daz brought him and made it what it was, and by the time he finished it was a whole different beat that sounded nothing like before. You seriously don't recognize the difference, or you just act a fool? I'm really confused here.

I'm putting credit when credit is due - yes, the session players did contribute but Dre's the reason for the sound of a finished product and that's why he's cheered louder than the others. That's why it says "Produced by Dr. Dre - keys by Scott Storch, bass by Mike Elizondo" etc. instead "Produced by Dr. Dre, Scott Storch & Mike Elizondo", because it was Dre who actually produced the record. Who told session players how the keys should play, what type of bass he wants, and so on. They contribute, but they didn't produce - they brought pieces of puzzle to the table, but he was the one, who got it all together and  he's the main reason for the quality of finished product. Bottom line.
Plus, don't forget that all those people like Daz need Dre more than opposite, because Dre's work without them sounds as good as usual, while the quality of their music suffers without a filter like Dre, who can help them perfect their stuff.

I know exactly how the music industry works, because I'm a part of the rap music industry here @ home and I've seen it all. Yes, there are tons of fishy guys in it, that will fucked you over, and yes what you see in that music video def ain't a full picture, etc. BUT - if your really thinks that all Dre's doing is buying finished product from unknown producers and put his name on it, your out of your mind. And if that was the case, people who did contribute back in the days like Daz, Mel-Man, Storch, Sneed, Flexx, etc. would be as big if not better than Dre - and their not, great talents in their own rights, but they not on Dre's level.

Yes, those Death Row credits miss plenty of guys who did contribute, but @ the end of the day - it was Dre, who did take all those samples and put them all together in a way only he can, so he was mainly responsible for the finished product. That's the job on a main producer, point blank.

I'm working with producers on a daily basics and I can give them an idea or two for the beat, or give them a fly melody, or a dope main sample, or some drums/keys/snare's that I think will work on whatever we're working on @ the moment, but it's up to them to put it all together, cause THEY ARE PRODUCERS and THEY ARE MAKING THE FINAL PRODUCT. So I can't go brag about "I produced the record" with I straight face, because I didn't - I brought something to the table and they made it what it was. Simple as that.

Just like Dre - people give him some cool little melody, he took it, mastered it and gave the world a finished product. That's what being a producer is all about - take an idea and make it transform to a dope ass record.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2016, 05:34:13 PM »
I agree that Daz provided a good skeleton and that Dre took it to a new level. What's the problem here? I can still here the skeleton though and a good mix can make a bland beat sound better even to the point where it sound like a different beat.

The problem with most of you is that you want to give one person the credit and not the other. I don't disagree that Dre produced on this. But I also don't disagree that session players and the person who made the skeleton produced on it as well.

I have already acknowledged I can here some changes so I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other guy, what is your argument? It just seems you and him want to defend Dre at all cost when I'm not even accusing him of anything.

As far people giving him the finished product and him putting his name on it, that very well may be true. You can say that's not the case and keep going by Doggy Dogg World as the example as to why it's not true. It's not good enough. The other interview I posted the other day leads me to believe that that does take place. Not everyone who comes along is where Daz was back in the day. I'm sure they get music regularly that don't need anything done and if they can spend a few dollars to help build the Dre brand then I'm sure that happens as well. Sorry you guys don't know how the music industry really works.

Back to the Scott Storch thing. I think I have explained it but I'll go back. Scott did produce on the song simply because he played the keys. I'm still fascinated in how anyone could argue that the people making the music (the people making the beat and session players) aren't part of the production process but the person who didn't make any music at all is. That's some grimy old school mafia music industry talk that needs to be done away with in 2016. I don't care what anyone says artist need to stand up for their rights. I'm not saying he produced the song because the song is a marriage between the music and the vocals. What I'm saying is that his input went into the production of the song so he should get production credits, which I'm sure he did.

It ain't about a "good mix" - Dre changed completely what Daz brought him and made it what it was, and by the time he finished it was a whole different beat that sounded nothing like before. You seriously don't recognize the difference, or you just act a fool? I'm really confused here.

I'm putting credit when credit is due - yes, the session players did contribute but Dre's the reason for the sound of a finished product and that's why he's cheered louder than the others. That's why it says "Produced by Dr. Dre - keys by Scott Storch, bass by Mike Elizondo" etc. instead "Produced by Dr. Dre, Scott Storch & Mike Elizondo", because it was Dre who actually produced the record. Who told session players how the keys should play, what type of bass he wants, and so on. They contribute, but they didn't produce - they brought pieces of puzzle to the table, but he was the one, who got it all together and  he's the main reason for the quality of finished product. Bottom line.
Plus, don't forget that all those people like Daz need Dre more than opposite, because Dre's work without them sounds as good as usual, while the quality of their music suffers without a filter like Dre, who can help them perfect their stuff.

I know exactly how the music industry works, because I'm a part of the rap music industry here @ home and I've seen it all. Yes, there are tons of fishy guys in it, that will fucked you over, and yes what you see in that music video def ain't a full picture, etc. BUT - if your really thinks that all Dre's doing is buying finished product from unknown producers and put his name on it, your out of your mind. And if that was the case, people who did contribute back in the days like Daz, Mel-Man, Storch, Sneed, Flexx, etc. would be as big if not better than Dre - and their not, great talents in their own rights, but they not on Dre's level.

Yes, those Death Row credits miss plenty of guys who did contribute, but @ the end of the day - it was Dre, who did take all those samples and put them all together in a way only he can, so he was mainly responsible for the finished product. That's the job on a main producer, point blank.

I'm working with producers on a daily basics and I can give them an idea or two for the beat, or give them a fly melody, or a dope main sample, or some drums/keys/snare's that I think will work on whatever we're working on @ the moment, but it's up to them to put it all together, cause THEY ARE PRODUCERS and THEY ARE MAKING THE FINAL PRODUCT. So I can't go brag about "I produced the record" with I straight face, because I didn't - I brought something to the table and they made it what it was. Simple as that.

Just like Dre - people give him some cool little melody, he took it, mastered it and gave the world a finished product. That's what being a producer is all about - take an idea and make it transform to a dope ass record.
I don't hear a completely different beat. If you do then that's cool, I don't. You're lying to yourself if you think a fan of that album wouldn't be able to listen to the original beat and be able to tell what track it is on the album. Furthermore your argument is just silly. If it's completely different beat then why use the skeleton at all? You guys are saying I'm discrediting Dre why you discredit Daz and anyone Dre has worked with.

Never said that Dre wasn't the reason the song was finished or anything of that nature.

I disagree that the people who make the music aren't producers.
 
Daz may have needed Dre back in '93 but not now. Sorry you think that it's some magnificent feat to get a beat, bring in people who can play the instruments live play, try and find ways to improve and have the finished product professionally mixed and mastered.

Never said that all Dre was doing was buying the finished product and putting his name on it. I have said that Alchemist has said that Dre and Em have gotten beats and made minor changes for the production credit.

This notion that artist who produce on the level of Dre should be on his level but aren't so they must not be as good is silly. If you are in the biz like you say then you should know that talent is only apart of the game. It doesn't get you everywhere.

You mention the DR credits but ignore the Aftermath suit that Hutch had.

Go and watch the Vladtv DOC interview where he speaks about giving input in the studio and then goes on to say technically it's called producing. You shouldn't go around bragging saying that you produced the record, you should tell the main producer that you want partial production credit for your input into the song.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2016, 05:37:21 PM »
Here are some quotes from the guy that posted the Hutch video at the other site:
"nikka u don't think the nikka who fukkin created the beat from scratch deserves credit? The nikka Dre was a fukkin Engineer fam. ALL signs point in that direction. Im a producer and engineer. I know the job. Daz and any other hip hop producer would say they would do a record and send it to Dre to mix the shyt. Then it's a damn Dre beat all of a sudden. nikka would even go as far as try to take credit for beats and songs he didn't touch at all.. snoop is a bytch ass nikka anyway so fukk what he gotta say about the situation. Snoop said Daz deserved ZERO credit for making the beat. Cause all he did was make the beat. Dre brought the life into it. That's some bullshyt. Even the interviewer was like damn "u don't think he deserves ANY credit for his contributions?" Snoop was like nope."

"Fam I know people in the industry who worked wit Dre. Legends bruh. Lol. I'm not speaking out my ass. U see how I gave Dre credit earlier in the thread so I'm not just bashing him for no reason. Hip hop is funny. It's not like other genre's because the term producer can be misconstrued considering the "beatmaker" can do everything himself. He IS a composer as well cause he composed. And made the beat himself from his brain. So for Dre to come in. Mix the beat. And engineer the session. He deserves ALL production credit? Nah. Now if Dre is in the studio. The beat comes from his head and he wants certain parts layed with real instruments even tho he can't play them. And he hires musicians n shit like that to work on it. Yes. He produced the beat. And early in Dre's career. Alotta people didn't get credit for Dre's work. He tries to blame Suge but Dre was right there wit him. Gassed. Nigga took credit for alotta production he didn't have his hands on. California Love remix was already done. Dre took credit for it. It's things like that I don't respect. Anyone who knows Dre knows it's hard to even get the nigga to wanna be in the studio. Especially these days. And yes. Snoop said Daz deserves ZERO credit. Take some shit like "Ain't No Fun". Song already done. Dre adds a few bells n whistles? Now it's a Dre beat? How's is that right? The whole SONG was done before Dre touched it. And Snoop is a flip flopper and grimey individual anyway."

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/dr-dres-ghost-producer-chris-the-glove-taylor-interview.422329/page-3
 

Sccit

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #114 on: April 30, 2016, 07:34:58 PM »
Here are some quotes from the guy that posted the Hutch video at the other site:
"nikka u don't think the nikka who fukkin created the beat from scratch deserves credit? The nikka Dre was a fukkin Engineer fam. ALL signs point in that direction. Im a producer and engineer. I know the job. Daz and any other hip hop producer would say they would do a record and send it to Dre to mix the shyt. Then it's a damn Dre beat all of a sudden. nikka would even go as far as try to take credit for beats and songs he didn't touch at all.. snoop is a bytch ass nikka anyway so fukk what he gotta say about the situation. Snoop said Daz deserved ZERO credit for making the beat. Cause all he did was make the beat. Dre brought the life into it. That's some bullshyt. Even the interviewer was like damn "u don't think he deserves ANY credit for his contributions?" Snoop was like nope."

"Fam I know people in the industry who worked wit Dre. Legends bruh. Lol. I'm not speaking out my ass. U see how I gave Dre credit earlier in the thread so I'm not just bashing him for no reason. Hip hop is funny. It's not like other genre's because the term producer can be misconstrued considering the "beatmaker" can do everything himself. He IS a composer as well cause he composed. And made the beat himself from his brain. So for Dre to come in. Mix the beat. And engineer the session. He deserves ALL production credit? Nah. Now if Dre is in the studio. The beat comes from his head and he wants certain parts layed with real instruments even tho he can't play them. And he hires musicians n shit like that to work on it. Yes. He produced the beat. And early in Dre's career. Alotta people didn't get credit for Dre's work. He tries to blame Suge but Dre was right there wit him. Gassed. Nigga took credit for alotta production he didn't have his hands on. California Love remix was already done. Dre took credit for it. It's things like that I don't respect. Anyone who knows Dre knows it's hard to even get the nigga to wanna be in the studio. Especially these days. And yes. Snoop said Daz deserves ZERO credit. Take some shit like "Ain't No Fun". Song already done. Dre adds a few bells n whistles? Now it's a Dre beat? How's is that right? The whole SONG was done before Dre touched it. And Snoop is a flip flopper and grimey individual anyway."

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/dr-dres-ghost-producer-chris-the-glove-taylor-interview.422329/page-3


Lol the fuck is this supposed to prove?


And here's my post shittin on his point:

"RIGHT THATS WHY DAZ, MEL-MAN, MIKE ELIZANDO, FOCUS ETC HAVE MADE PRODUCTIONS ON THEIR OWN THAT RIVAL DRE'S WORK .. OR NOT"
 

jaytee

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.  For example, if I'm a basketball player and happen to diagram a play, that doesn't mean I'm now the coach or assistant coach.  I just happened to draw up that one particular play during a time-out.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s</a>

If you're a producer and you want to give a studio musician co-producer credit because he came up with a nice tune in a session, feel free to do so.  That's your prerogative, but it's definitely not the industry standard regardless of genre of music. 




Hutch states in the video that his beat was not used on the album.  It was replaced by one done by Swizz Beats and P. Killer.  Elements of what he contributed (concepts, directions, melodies, etc.) during the initial sessions were still present in the song.  You're going to have to focus on more than just who played what on the instrumental if you're going to use his situation as stealing production credit.  He's basically saying that it doesn't matter if Swizz Beats came in with a new instrumental, it's still his song because of everything else that he did with that track that made it what it was.  Swizz Beats just brought in the beat....
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2016, 06:00:11 AM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.

Precise.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2016, 06:43:33 PM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.  For example, if I'm a basketball player and happen to diagram a play, that doesn't mean I'm now the coach or assistant coach.  I just happened to draw up that one particular play during a time-out.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s</a>

If you're a producer and you want to give a studio musician co-producer credit because he came up with a nice tune in a session, feel free to do so.  That's your prerogative, but it's definitely not the industry standard regardless of genre of music. 




Hutch states in the video that his beat was not used on the album.  It was replaced by one done by Swizz Beats and P. Killer.  Elements of what he contributed (concepts, directions, melodies, etc.) during the initial sessions were still present in the song.  You're going to have to focus on more than just who played what on the instrumental if you're going to use his situation as stealing production credit.  He's basically saying that it doesn't matter if Swizz Beats came in with a new instrumental, it's still his song because of everything else that he did with that track that made it what it was.  Swizz Beats just brought in the beat....
I obviously disagree with industry standard. Shout out to Suge and others who wanted to form the music industry union and challenge age old traditions.
Not in every situation are musicians told what to play. Regardless of whether they are or not, the point is that they played.
I don't see the difference from someone sampling to make a beat. The people who's music is used gets paid. Not once but every time the sampled song makes revenue. Most of the sampled material came from live instrumentation. 

The Hutch situation was only posted to show that from DR to even Aftermath producers have been making the same allegations. If you want to go back even further you can say Ruthless because Suge has stated in his TMZ interview that they got the practice of taking artist ideas and using it from Ruthless which they applied to DR. Obviously if Dre was the primary music guy in the beginning at Ruthless and DR then this would implicate him as well. People like to blame Suge for the DR credit situation but then question the validity of me posting a situation that happened at Aftermath. My point in posting that has nothing to do with instrumentation either. I can't say that I'm building a case but if something along the lines of this discussion presents itself I will post it regards of the outcry from obsessed fans.
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #118 on: May 02, 2016, 02:53:21 AM »
I don't hear a completely different beat. If you do then that's cool, I don't. You're lying to yourself if you think a fan of that album wouldn't be able to listen to the original beat and be able to tell what track it is on the album. Furthermore your argument is just silly. If it's completely different beat then why use the skeleton at all? You guys are saying I'm discrediting Dre why you discredit Daz and anyone Dre has worked with.

Never said that Dre wasn't the reason the song was finished or anything of that nature.

I don't discredit Daz - I'd said he's a great producer in his own right. But he ain't Dr. Dre and his body of work don't compare to that of Dre's - we ain't gonna argue about that one, do we?

I disagree that the people who make the music aren't producers.

That's your point of view, but the truth is - dude who plays bass ain't a producer, he's a session player. Dude, who play keys ain't a producer either - he contribute in one element and that's playing keys. So you can't say he did more to make a finished product sound the way it is that a main producer like Dre, who's puuting all pieces together and usually tells a keyboard player what kind of melody he should play, so you can't put a "=" mark between Dre and let's say a Mark Batson, because they didn't contribute the same effort when it comes to making a finished product.

Daz may have needed Dre back in '93 but not now. Sorry you think that it's some magnificent feat to get a beat, bring in people who can play the instruments live play, try and find ways to improve and have the finished product professionally mixed and mastered.

In some case - yes, it's a magnificent feat because records like "Doggystyle", or "The Chronic" don't come very often. Plus, if it was so easy every top producer in the game would provide hit after hit, and like you can see - almost none of them are capable of doing it and be consistent about it. Same goes with rappers - there's a selected few that can match their best record and Dre's one of them, when it comes to "The Chronic" and "2001". He succeded when most of them failed - Snoop couldn't do it, 50 couldn't do it, even Em had major problems of coming close to MMLP, and all these dudes had access to every top producer, musician, keyboard player in the world. So it ain't as easy, as you think it is bro.

This notion that artist who produce on the level of Dre should be on his level but aren't so they must not be as good is silly. If you are in the biz like you say then you should know that talent is only apart of the game. It doesn't get you everywhere.

Your right - hard work beats talent, when talent dosen't work hard. That's what separates Dre from others - his work ethic. That's the main reason other talented producers like Mel-Man, Sam Sneed, J-Flexx and others didn't get to that level. They had talent, but they didn't push themselves as hard as Dre did, bottom line. It ain't about being blackballed, or being an "illuminati puppet" - it's about hard work and dedication.

You mention the DR credits but ignore the Aftermath suit that Hutch had.

I disagree - Dre learned his lesson on Death Row, that's why most Aftermath releases have booklets giving credit to everybody involved. Check out "The Documentary" for example:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Game-The-Documentary/release/5830753

It says loud and clear who made what - same goes for 50 or Eminem records.
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #119 on: May 02, 2016, 02:56:09 AM »
I obviously disagree with industry standard. Shout out to Suge and others who wanted to form the music industry union and challenge age old traditions.
Not in every situation are musicians told what to play. Regardless of whether they are or not, the point is that they played.
I don't see the difference from someone sampling to make a beat. The people who's music is used gets paid. Not once but every time the sampled song makes revenue. Most of the sampled material came from live instrumentation. 

The Hutch situation was only posted to show that from DR to even Aftermath producers have been making the same allegations. If you want to go back even further you can say Ruthless because Suge has stated in his TMZ interview that they got the practice of taking artist ideas and using it from Ruthless which they applied to DR. Obviously if Dre was the primary music guy in the beginning at Ruthless and DR then this would implicate him as well. People like to blame Suge for the DR credit situation but then question the validity of me posting a situation that happened at Aftermath. My point in posting that has nothing to do with instrumentation either. I can't say that I'm building a case but if something along the lines of this discussion presents itself I will post it regards of the outcry from obsessed fans.

Suge is the last credible person, when it comes to every Dr.Dre-related topic bro - c'mon now ::)
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #120 on: May 02, 2016, 05:41:19 AM »
I obviously disagree with industry standard. Shout out to Suge and others who wanted to form the music industry union and challenge age old traditions.
Not in every situation are musicians told what to play. Regardless of whether they are or not, the point is that they played.
I don't see the difference from someone sampling to make a beat. The people who's music is used gets paid. Not once but every time the sampled song makes revenue. Most of the sampled material came from live instrumentation. 

The Hutch situation was only posted to show that from DR to even Aftermath producers have been making the same allegations. If you want to go back even further you can say Ruthless because Suge has stated in his TMZ interview that they got the practice of taking artist ideas and using it from Ruthless which they applied to DR. Obviously if Dre was the primary music guy in the beginning at Ruthless and DR then this would implicate him as well. People like to blame Suge for the DR credit situation but then question the validity of me posting a situation that happened at Aftermath. My point in posting that has nothing to do with instrumentation either. I can't say that I'm building a case but if something along the lines of this discussion presents itself I will post it regards of the outcry from obsessed fans.

Suge is the last credible person, when it comes to every Dr.Dre-related topic bro - c'mon now ::)
In the context in which he mentioned it technically it had nothing to do with Dre.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #121 on: May 02, 2016, 05:48:52 AM »
I don't hear a completely different beat. If you do then that's cool, I don't. You're lying to yourself if you think a fan of that album wouldn't be able to listen to the original beat and be able to tell what track it is on the album. Furthermore your argument is just silly. If it's completely different beat then why use the skeleton at all? You guys are saying I'm discrediting Dre why you discredit Daz and anyone Dre has worked with.

Never said that Dre wasn't the reason the song was finished or anything of that nature.

I don't discredit Daz - I'd said he's a great producer in his own right. But he ain't Dr. Dre and his body of work don't compare to that of Dre's - we ain't gonna argue about that one, do we?

I disagree that the people who make the music aren't producers.

That's your point of view, but the truth is - dude who plays bass ain't a producer, he's a session player. Dude, who play keys ain't a producer either - he contribute in one element and that's playing keys. So you can't say he did more to make a finished product sound the way it is that a main producer like Dre, who's puuting all pieces together and usually tells a keyboard player what kind of melody he should play, so you can't put a "=" mark between Dre and let's say a Mark Batson, because they didn't contribute the same effort when it comes to making a finished product.

Daz may have needed Dre back in '93 but not now. Sorry you think that it's some magnificent feat to get a beat, bring in people who can play the instruments live play, try and find ways to improve and have the finished product professionally mixed and mastered.

In some case - yes, it's a magnificent feat because records like "Doggystyle", or "The Chronic" don't come very often. Plus, if it was so easy every top producer in the game would provide hit after hit, and like you can see - almost none of them are capable of doing it and be consistent about it. Same goes with rappers - there's a selected few that can match their best record and Dre's one of them, when it comes to "The Chronic" and "2001". He succeded when most of them failed - Snoop couldn't do it, 50 couldn't do it, even Em had major problems of coming close to MMLP, and all these dudes had access to every top producer, musician, keyboard player in the world. So it ain't as easy, as you think it is bro.

This notion that artist who produce on the level of Dre should be on his level but aren't so they must not be as good is silly. If you are in the biz like you say then you should know that talent is only apart of the game. It doesn't get you everywhere.

Your right - hard work beats talent, when talent dosen't work hard. That's what separates Dre from others - his work ethic. That's the main reason other talented producers like Mel-Man, Sam Sneed, J-Flexx and others didn't get to that level. They had talent, but they didn't push themselves as hard as Dre did, bottom line. It ain't about being blackballed, or being an "illuminati puppet" - it's about hard work and dedication.

You mention the DR credits but ignore the Aftermath suit that Hutch had.

I disagree - Dre learned his lesson on Death Row, that's why most Aftermath releases have booklets giving credit to everybody involved. Check out "The Documentary" for example:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Game-The-Documentary/release/5830753

It says loud and clear who made what - same goes for 50 or Eminem records.
You're discrediting him by acting like Dre could have came up with the finished product without Daz when it was Daz who inspired Dre.
It is easy to get someone in and tell them what to play. Just because someone has had success in doing so doesn't make that task hard.
Tell the last part to Hutch.
 

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Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #122 on: May 02, 2016, 11:36:44 AM »
Dre didn't need Daz, Daz coulda been replaced by any session player .. But Dre is irreplaceable. Not that hard to figure out the importance of roles.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2016, 10:11:40 AM »
Chris “The Glove” Taylor




When Chris “The Glove” Taylor first appeared with Ice-T in the break-dance classic movie, Breakin’, he was already one of the most respected DJs on the West Coast.




Spinning at the legendary Los Angeles club The Radio a.k.a. The Radio Tron, The Glove was known for his lightning speed scratches. Like a lot of DJs in the Hip-Hop game, The Glove turned to producing and soon became the right-hand man for Andre “Dr. Dre” Young and found himself working side by side with the iconic producer on classics like The Chronic, Doggystyle, All Eyez On Me, and later, The Chronic 2001.


Interviewer: You were in the 1984 movie Breakin’ DJ’ing for Ice-T. How did you get that part?




Chris “The Glove” Taylor: It all started with a club called Radio. The spot was a phenomenon because we used to have lines going around the block and it was open to any age over 13. The L.A. Times put us on the cover of their Calendar section and the producers of the movie came to check it out. Back then, people like Sting from The Police and Malcolm Mclaren would come out to the club.

So they began shooting the movie at the club and one day, I overheard the producers talking about how they needed music to capture the feel of a certain scene. I walked over to them and told them that I could do it. I was just a DJ at the time and had never produced anything up until then. They agreed to it and originally it was supposed to be just a music score for the scene. They had already hired Ice-T as the rapper for the movie, so I approached him about rapping over the beat. We recorded “Reckless” in the middle of the night and finished at 2 am.

Ice-T -Reckless



Interviewer: That was your first track? It must have been a quick learning experience.

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I played all of those party tracks like “Planet Rock.” I got my hands on a drum machine after the producers agreed with my request. I learned how to program the beats on it. It’s hard to remember all of the details, but I believe The Egyptian Lover showed me the ropes on how to do it.




AllHipHop.com: How did you end up working alongside Dr. Dre?




Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I did the “Reckless” song and it sold 4 million copies by being on the Breakin’ soundtrack. I decided that I didn’t want to do rap after that and that’s why there is a huge gap between that song and my work with Dre. I felt like R & B music paid more at the time. I had an organ and piano background from church and high school, so I was writing songs.

I was a part of a group called Po, Broke and Lonely. We were making hot songs and a mutual friend told Dre about our group. Dre had already heard of me through the DJ scene. We met him out at a party in Palm Springs and Eazy E signed us as a group because he was looking for something that was self-contained to where he didn’t have to produce everything – and that was because of me. I was also an engineer, which a lot of producers aren’t. They’ll just lay a beat down and leave it at that.



Interviewer: So what did you and Dre start working on?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: The first thing we started working on was the Po, Broke and Lonely album. We had this song called “Funky Vibe” and he did the remix. We were at a studio in Carson and I was the first person to introduce him to an SSL studio mixer. The way he had been recording was by having all of these different hands pushing the faders up and down on the board. I told him he was working too hard and said, “let me show you this thing called Automation.” It was the reason why I got to mix The Chronic album with him. The credits say, “mixed by Chris Taylor” but I admit that he mixed more of that album than I did. He sat in front of those boards.




Interviewer: Did you have any production or co-production on The Chronic?




Chris “The Glove” Taylor: Yes. I produced a song called, “Stranded On Death Row.” That was me and Dre. There’s been a long standing rumor that I did everything and Dre did nothing. That’s not true. You will never hear me say that. But I also did a hell of a lot that I never received credit for.




Interviewer: Like what?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: Oh my God [pauses]. The Chronic not so much because I mixed it with him and it was all going good at that point. Although I never got credit for producing “Stranded On Death Row” and that’s where the f*** up’s started. I thought maybe that it was a mistake or an oversight at the time. So we go on to Snoop’s album Doggystyle and I worked with Dre hand-in-hand for about 70 percent of that album. I mixed more of that record than The Chronic.


Interviewer: Did you produce any songs on Snoop Dogg’s Doggystyle album?




Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I produced a song called “Doggy Dogg World.” Dr. Dre did the beat as far as the drums; kick, snare and hi-hat. The bass player wasn’t playing it to Dre’s satisfaction, so I took over and played it on the Moog. Then Dre asked me to put the keys down on it, so I did all of the keyboard parts. He told me to record the beat and then he left – so I laid it all down. I also recorded Snoop’s vocals. I recorded everybody but The Dramatics although I sat next to Dre when that happened.

When that record was finished, Suge was standing on my right side and Jimmy Iovine was standing on my left. They were waiting for me to finish editing it so they could put it on the album and fly it on an airplane to the pressing plant. They told me that it would cost them $42,000 for every hour that it went over. They had trucks lined up, and they were waiting to ship it – Snoop’s first album was a monster. The main thing back then was making sure that the order of the songs was right – because the album has to flow right. We put as much work in to that as anything else on the album.




Interviewer: What other songs were you not credited for?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I played the keys on 2Pac and Dre’s “California Love” and I never received credit or recognition for that. I had to ask what was going on? Am I just an invisible studio guy? “California Love” was the last song that I worked on before I left Death Row. Then later on there was a song on The Chronic 2001 album for Aftermath called “Xxplosive” – that was my track!


Interviewer: Did you ever ask Dr. Dre why you never received the proper credit on these tracks?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: Actually I did. I was really upset with what happened on the Snoop album. I didn’t even get my name in the “Thank You” section. My name was erased on that album. Like how some producers receive a co-production credit nowadays, that’s what I should have gotten. And I should have six or seven “mixed by” credits on that album too. It’s not Snoop’s fault. He even tried to put my name in his raps but Suge would be there like, “Change that.”

I was the second producer signed to Death Row Records, counting Dr. Dre when they first started. Suge used to tell me all of the time that I was going to be the next Dr. Dre. But how can I be the next Dr. Dre when you’re leaving my name off of everything? I took issue with all of that and those were times that I took breaks from working with Dre. I would just go focus on something else. As a matter of fact, I didn’t get back with Dre until he left and started Aftermath.

Interviewer: Why did you go work with Aftermath after that bad experience with Death Row Records?


Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I had to be convinced, actually, but honestly I figured all of that happened because of Suge. It was just Dre running his own company now so everything seemed to be all good. I worked on The Firm’s album, and I co-produced the song, “Phone Tap.” I got credit for the song and I got paid. I came up with the concept of having a “phone voice” for the song and did the beat but Dr. Dre really did take that song to the next level – and that’s what he does.




Interviewer: Since you bring up The Firm, what went wrong with that album in your opinion?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: “Phone Tap” wasn’t the first single. Do you know how many people would have ran out to buy that album if the first thing they heard was that song? They chose “Firm Biz” to be the first single and I was like, “You’ve got to be kidding! That’s not Mob music!” There were problems with that project from the beginning.

We had to replace Cormega with Nature and there was a bunch of label in-fighting. If you look at the back of that CD, you’ll see like 50 logos on there [laughter]. Every label and company involved wanted a piece of that project. Plus the album was rushed because it was done in Miami. Nobody wanted to come to L.A. because Biggie had been murdered and we didn’t want to go out East.


Interviewer: You also worked on the Dr. Dre Presents Aftermath album, which was widely panned. Why did that album fail?




Chris “The Glove” Taylor: People were upset because they wanted a “Dr. Dre” album. They weren’t looking for a compilation album. That’s what messed that up. Plus the single “Been There, Done That” was cool, but it was taking away from the gangster style that people wanted. As you saw with the next album Chronic 2001, he returned to the gangster style. People checked out “Been There, Done That” and when they went to see out what was next, they found that Dre wasn’t on another song.


Interviewer: What did you work on after the Aftermath compilation?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I did some stuff for Xzibit, a rapper named Saafir and a group called The Militia. They (The Militia) took out a 4 page ad in a magazine and it mentioned the work we did together – and Dre got pissed about that. What happened was that I had just renegotiated my deal with Dre and I was going to make some cool money. Then he cut my salary in half after 6 weeks so I left to work elsewhere. That ad came out before I could talk to him and tell him that I wasn’t going to be around though – but he knows me. If I’m unhappy then I just disappear. I felt like I was missing a lot of money from the Snoop album and points from “Stranded on Death Row.” Between those 14 million albums sold, I should’ve had at least a million dollars from it. I always had that under my skin.




Interviewer: And of course that leads to the “Xxplosive” song on Chronic 2001.

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I got burned again too. Let me tell you about that song. We went up to Reno, Nevada to work on King T’s album because that was going to be the next album on Aftermath. I did that “Xxplosive” track for King T. As a matter of fact, that track and the one used by the reunited N.W.A called “Hello,” were done at that same session. Those were both originally for King T. “Hello” was a track that me and Dre both worked on together. He did the drum beat and I put everything else on top of it. “Xxplosive” that was some sh*t that I did.

Mobb Deep had an Issac Hayes sample for a song and I wanted to flip that – and I turned that in to “Xxplosive.” We would generally take the sample off and play the instruments slightly different so that it’s not an interpolation or a sample at that point. I had to get my lawyer involved because I didn’t even get paid the bare minimum that I should have been paid for my initial work.




Interviewer: You got your lawyer after him?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I had to! He tried to tell me that he was still recouping from The Firm or some kind of bullsh*t. He had all of that money and he didn’t want to pay the basic $1500 fee for the track. I had to fight just for that and I still didn’t get credit on the album.

One good thing that came out of that though, is that if I didn’t stand up like that, Mel-Man would have never received his co-production credits for the tracks that he worked on.

Mel-Man



Interviewer: I feel bad for you. I’ve interviewed other artists from that era and it seems like everybody got ripped off by someone.

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: We all got screwed. Nate Dogg, Jewel, Rage and The Dogg Pound signed their contracts on the same day. We were getting ready to go on The Chronic tour. Dre and I were putting the tour music together at Trax Studios and Suge had them all sign their contracts. They got $5,000 each. When I signed my deal I got way more than that. I was like, “Damn. Y’all got $5,000? That’s f***ed up.”

The Death Row Inmates... most were paid $5000 to sign contracts.



Interviewer: And you guys haven’t spoken since the “Xxplosive” situation?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: Not since 1998. I went on to work with a group called Chico & Coolwadda and we had some heat on that album. However, MCA was just stupid and they blew it on that project. I then became the DJ for Tha Pharcyde on one of their tours, and we did a show out in the East Coast.

I don’t have any regrets. I think I’ve made some miss-steps but everybody makes those. After that, I moved on to television music and made a career out of that. At one point every Monday on the UPN Network, my music was played on every show that came on from the evening until the news came on. I’m talking “Girlfriends,” “One on One,” “The Parkers” – I scored “The Parkers” for over four years. A lot of that was ghost production too.

AllHipHop.com: You’ve got to be kidding me!

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: Let me ask you, who painted the Sistine Chapel?

Interviewer: Michelangelo.

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: That’s who got the credit but it was a bunch of guys like myself. I found out that throughout history most of these great people didn’t even do the f*cking work. The Sistine Chapel was painted by a bunch of guys. Michelangelo taught them his strokes but they did the work and he would come in and just touch up a few things – the same with Dre. One dude could not have painted all of that! This has always been going on. It’s been like this forever. Michelangelo was the person connected to the Vatican that could get the money. Dre was that guy connected to Jimmy Iovine that could get us all paid.

Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine



Interviewer: After all of this, would you be up for reuniting with the Doctor and making some music again? And if so, what’s stopping it?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: The only thing stopping it is a phone call. If he needs me to come in to the studio and help get it in, then I’m there. This is about the West Coast. I’m sure this time it would all be done the correct way. The past is the past. It’s all about now.

Interviewer: What do you think about some of the recent tracks that he’s put out?

Chris “The Glove” Taylor: I think he needs to call me. He needs to call The D.O.C and everybody else who worked on those first two albums – and let’s get it in on this last one – the last ride.


Chris “The Glove” Taylor
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip-hop-engineering-production/846964-another-guy-made-dr-dre-chris-oethe-glovea-taylor.html
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2016, 10:13:43 AM »