Author Topic: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"  (Read 4439 times)

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2016, 03:48:11 PM »
You don't try hard enough.
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

Sccit

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #106 on: April 29, 2016, 04:05:51 PM »
You don't try hard enough.


i dont need to try, i just do it like nike brodie.......trying leaves room for failure. and thats why u steady failin in your quest to gain ground wit your desperation attempts at shittin on the goat producer in hip-hop. only reason u turned this into a me vs. you thing is because your insecurity was stronger than your points. i see u.

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #107 on: April 29, 2016, 08:18:10 PM »
^allah gon' whoop you if you don't shut up and go away.
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

Sccit

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #108 on: April 29, 2016, 10:14:07 PM »
^allah gon' whoop you if you don't shut up and go away.



"Shut up and go away" more female talk masked by a corny joke. get out your feelins n back on topic dawgy. Topic is about Dre not how I make u feel.


abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #109 on: April 30, 2016, 11:14:09 AM »
Let's play a game called silence of the lamb.
Rules: you shut up.
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

Sccit

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #110 on: April 30, 2016, 11:41:21 AM »
not guna tell u again...stop playin them gayass games n stay on topic.

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2016, 12:57:17 PM »
I agree that Daz provided a good skeleton and that Dre took it to a new level. What's the problem here? I can still here the skeleton though and a good mix can make a bland beat sound better even to the point where it sound like a different beat.

The problem with most of you is that you want to give one person the credit and not the other. I don't disagree that Dre produced on this. But I also don't disagree that session players and the person who made the skeleton produced on it as well.

I have already acknowledged I can here some changes so I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other guy, what is your argument? It just seems you and him want to defend Dre at all cost when I'm not even accusing him of anything.

As far people giving him the finished product and him putting his name on it, that very well may be true. You can say that's not the case and keep going by Doggy Dogg World as the example as to why it's not true. It's not good enough. The other interview I posted the other day leads me to believe that that does take place. Not everyone who comes along is where Daz was back in the day. I'm sure they get music regularly that don't need anything done and if they can spend a few dollars to help build the Dre brand then I'm sure that happens as well. Sorry you guys don't know how the music industry really works.

Back to the Scott Storch thing. I think I have explained it but I'll go back. Scott did produce on the song simply because he played the keys. I'm still fascinated in how anyone could argue that the people making the music (the people making the beat and session players) aren't part of the production process but the person who didn't make any music at all is. That's some grimy old school mafia music industry talk that needs to be done away with in 2016. I don't care what anyone says artist need to stand up for their rights. I'm not saying he produced the song because the song is a marriage between the music and the vocals. What I'm saying is that his input went into the production of the song so he should get production credits, which I'm sure he did.

It ain't about a "good mix" - Dre changed completely what Daz brought him and made it what it was, and by the time he finished it was a whole different beat that sounded nothing like before. You seriously don't recognize the difference, or you just act a fool? I'm really confused here.

I'm putting credit when credit is due - yes, the session players did contribute but Dre's the reason for the sound of a finished product and that's why he's cheered louder than the others. That's why it says "Produced by Dr. Dre - keys by Scott Storch, bass by Mike Elizondo" etc. instead "Produced by Dr. Dre, Scott Storch & Mike Elizondo", because it was Dre who actually produced the record. Who told session players how the keys should play, what type of bass he wants, and so on. They contribute, but they didn't produce - they brought pieces of puzzle to the table, but he was the one, who got it all together and  he's the main reason for the quality of finished product. Bottom line.
Plus, don't forget that all those people like Daz need Dre more than opposite, because Dre's work without them sounds as good as usual, while the quality of their music suffers without a filter like Dre, who can help them perfect their stuff.

I know exactly how the music industry works, because I'm a part of the rap music industry here @ home and I've seen it all. Yes, there are tons of fishy guys in it, that will fucked you over, and yes what you see in that music video def ain't a full picture, etc. BUT - if your really thinks that all Dre's doing is buying finished product from unknown producers and put his name on it, your out of your mind. And if that was the case, people who did contribute back in the days like Daz, Mel-Man, Storch, Sneed, Flexx, etc. would be as big if not better than Dre - and their not, great talents in their own rights, but they not on Dre's level.

Yes, those Death Row credits miss plenty of guys who did contribute, but @ the end of the day - it was Dre, who did take all those samples and put them all together in a way only he can, so he was mainly responsible for the finished product. That's the job on a main producer, point blank.

I'm working with producers on a daily basics and I can give them an idea or two for the beat, or give them a fly melody, or a dope main sample, or some drums/keys/snare's that I think will work on whatever we're working on @ the moment, but it's up to them to put it all together, cause THEY ARE PRODUCERS and THEY ARE MAKING THE FINAL PRODUCT. So I can't go brag about "I produced the record" with I straight face, because I didn't - I brought something to the table and they made it what it was. Simple as that.

Just like Dre - people give him some cool little melody, he took it, mastered it and gave the world a finished product. That's what being a producer is all about - take an idea and make it transform to a dope ass record.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2016, 05:34:13 PM »
I agree that Daz provided a good skeleton and that Dre took it to a new level. What's the problem here? I can still here the skeleton though and a good mix can make a bland beat sound better even to the point where it sound like a different beat.

The problem with most of you is that you want to give one person the credit and not the other. I don't disagree that Dre produced on this. But I also don't disagree that session players and the person who made the skeleton produced on it as well.

I have already acknowledged I can here some changes so I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other guy, what is your argument? It just seems you and him want to defend Dre at all cost when I'm not even accusing him of anything.

As far people giving him the finished product and him putting his name on it, that very well may be true. You can say that's not the case and keep going by Doggy Dogg World as the example as to why it's not true. It's not good enough. The other interview I posted the other day leads me to believe that that does take place. Not everyone who comes along is where Daz was back in the day. I'm sure they get music regularly that don't need anything done and if they can spend a few dollars to help build the Dre brand then I'm sure that happens as well. Sorry you guys don't know how the music industry really works.

Back to the Scott Storch thing. I think I have explained it but I'll go back. Scott did produce on the song simply because he played the keys. I'm still fascinated in how anyone could argue that the people making the music (the people making the beat and session players) aren't part of the production process but the person who didn't make any music at all is. That's some grimy old school mafia music industry talk that needs to be done away with in 2016. I don't care what anyone says artist need to stand up for their rights. I'm not saying he produced the song because the song is a marriage between the music and the vocals. What I'm saying is that his input went into the production of the song so he should get production credits, which I'm sure he did.

It ain't about a "good mix" - Dre changed completely what Daz brought him and made it what it was, and by the time he finished it was a whole different beat that sounded nothing like before. You seriously don't recognize the difference, or you just act a fool? I'm really confused here.

I'm putting credit when credit is due - yes, the session players did contribute but Dre's the reason for the sound of a finished product and that's why he's cheered louder than the others. That's why it says "Produced by Dr. Dre - keys by Scott Storch, bass by Mike Elizondo" etc. instead "Produced by Dr. Dre, Scott Storch & Mike Elizondo", because it was Dre who actually produced the record. Who told session players how the keys should play, what type of bass he wants, and so on. They contribute, but they didn't produce - they brought pieces of puzzle to the table, but he was the one, who got it all together and  he's the main reason for the quality of finished product. Bottom line.
Plus, don't forget that all those people like Daz need Dre more than opposite, because Dre's work without them sounds as good as usual, while the quality of their music suffers without a filter like Dre, who can help them perfect their stuff.

I know exactly how the music industry works, because I'm a part of the rap music industry here @ home and I've seen it all. Yes, there are tons of fishy guys in it, that will fucked you over, and yes what you see in that music video def ain't a full picture, etc. BUT - if your really thinks that all Dre's doing is buying finished product from unknown producers and put his name on it, your out of your mind. And if that was the case, people who did contribute back in the days like Daz, Mel-Man, Storch, Sneed, Flexx, etc. would be as big if not better than Dre - and their not, great talents in their own rights, but they not on Dre's level.

Yes, those Death Row credits miss plenty of guys who did contribute, but @ the end of the day - it was Dre, who did take all those samples and put them all together in a way only he can, so he was mainly responsible for the finished product. That's the job on a main producer, point blank.

I'm working with producers on a daily basics and I can give them an idea or two for the beat, or give them a fly melody, or a dope main sample, or some drums/keys/snare's that I think will work on whatever we're working on @ the moment, but it's up to them to put it all together, cause THEY ARE PRODUCERS and THEY ARE MAKING THE FINAL PRODUCT. So I can't go brag about "I produced the record" with I straight face, because I didn't - I brought something to the table and they made it what it was. Simple as that.

Just like Dre - people give him some cool little melody, he took it, mastered it and gave the world a finished product. That's what being a producer is all about - take an idea and make it transform to a dope ass record.
I don't hear a completely different beat. If you do then that's cool, I don't. You're lying to yourself if you think a fan of that album wouldn't be able to listen to the original beat and be able to tell what track it is on the album. Furthermore your argument is just silly. If it's completely different beat then why use the skeleton at all? You guys are saying I'm discrediting Dre why you discredit Daz and anyone Dre has worked with.

Never said that Dre wasn't the reason the song was finished or anything of that nature.

I disagree that the people who make the music aren't producers.
 
Daz may have needed Dre back in '93 but not now. Sorry you think that it's some magnificent feat to get a beat, bring in people who can play the instruments live play, try and find ways to improve and have the finished product professionally mixed and mastered.

Never said that all Dre was doing was buying the finished product and putting his name on it. I have said that Alchemist has said that Dre and Em have gotten beats and made minor changes for the production credit.

This notion that artist who produce on the level of Dre should be on his level but aren't so they must not be as good is silly. If you are in the biz like you say then you should know that talent is only apart of the game. It doesn't get you everywhere.

You mention the DR credits but ignore the Aftermath suit that Hutch had.

Go and watch the Vladtv DOC interview where he speaks about giving input in the studio and then goes on to say technically it's called producing. You shouldn't go around bragging saying that you produced the record, you should tell the main producer that you want partial production credit for your input into the song.
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2016, 05:37:21 PM »
Here are some quotes from the guy that posted the Hutch video at the other site:
"nikka u don't think the nikka who fukkin created the beat from scratch deserves credit? The nikka Dre was a fukkin Engineer fam. ALL signs point in that direction. Im a producer and engineer. I know the job. Daz and any other hip hop producer would say they would do a record and send it to Dre to mix the shyt. Then it's a damn Dre beat all of a sudden. nikka would even go as far as try to take credit for beats and songs he didn't touch at all.. snoop is a bytch ass nikka anyway so fukk what he gotta say about the situation. Snoop said Daz deserved ZERO credit for making the beat. Cause all he did was make the beat. Dre brought the life into it. That's some bullshyt. Even the interviewer was like damn "u don't think he deserves ANY credit for his contributions?" Snoop was like nope."

"Fam I know people in the industry who worked wit Dre. Legends bruh. Lol. I'm not speaking out my ass. U see how I gave Dre credit earlier in the thread so I'm not just bashing him for no reason. Hip hop is funny. It's not like other genre's because the term producer can be misconstrued considering the "beatmaker" can do everything himself. He IS a composer as well cause he composed. And made the beat himself from his brain. So for Dre to come in. Mix the beat. And engineer the session. He deserves ALL production credit? Nah. Now if Dre is in the studio. The beat comes from his head and he wants certain parts layed with real instruments even tho he can't play them. And he hires musicians n shit like that to work on it. Yes. He produced the beat. And early in Dre's career. Alotta people didn't get credit for Dre's work. He tries to blame Suge but Dre was right there wit him. Gassed. Nigga took credit for alotta production he didn't have his hands on. California Love remix was already done. Dre took credit for it. It's things like that I don't respect. Anyone who knows Dre knows it's hard to even get the nigga to wanna be in the studio. Especially these days. And yes. Snoop said Daz deserves ZERO credit. Take some shit like "Ain't No Fun". Song already done. Dre adds a few bells n whistles? Now it's a Dre beat? How's is that right? The whole SONG was done before Dre touched it. And Snoop is a flip flopper and grimey individual anyway."

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/dr-dres-ghost-producer-chris-the-glove-taylor-interview.422329/page-3
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

Sccit

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #114 on: April 30, 2016, 07:34:58 PM »
Here are some quotes from the guy that posted the Hutch video at the other site:
"nikka u don't think the nikka who fukkin created the beat from scratch deserves credit? The nikka Dre was a fukkin Engineer fam. ALL signs point in that direction. Im a producer and engineer. I know the job. Daz and any other hip hop producer would say they would do a record and send it to Dre to mix the shyt. Then it's a damn Dre beat all of a sudden. nikka would even go as far as try to take credit for beats and songs he didn't touch at all.. snoop is a bytch ass nikka anyway so fukk what he gotta say about the situation. Snoop said Daz deserved ZERO credit for making the beat. Cause all he did was make the beat. Dre brought the life into it. That's some bullshyt. Even the interviewer was like damn "u don't think he deserves ANY credit for his contributions?" Snoop was like nope."

"Fam I know people in the industry who worked wit Dre. Legends bruh. Lol. I'm not speaking out my ass. U see how I gave Dre credit earlier in the thread so I'm not just bashing him for no reason. Hip hop is funny. It's not like other genre's because the term producer can be misconstrued considering the "beatmaker" can do everything himself. He IS a composer as well cause he composed. And made the beat himself from his brain. So for Dre to come in. Mix the beat. And engineer the session. He deserves ALL production credit? Nah. Now if Dre is in the studio. The beat comes from his head and he wants certain parts layed with real instruments even tho he can't play them. And he hires musicians n shit like that to work on it. Yes. He produced the beat. And early in Dre's career. Alotta people didn't get credit for Dre's work. He tries to blame Suge but Dre was right there wit him. Gassed. Nigga took credit for alotta production he didn't have his hands on. California Love remix was already done. Dre took credit for it. It's things like that I don't respect. Anyone who knows Dre knows it's hard to even get the nigga to wanna be in the studio. Especially these days. And yes. Snoop said Daz deserves ZERO credit. Take some shit like "Ain't No Fun". Song already done. Dre adds a few bells n whistles? Now it's a Dre beat? How's is that right? The whole SONG was done before Dre touched it. And Snoop is a flip flopper and grimey individual anyway."

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/dr-dres-ghost-producer-chris-the-glove-taylor-interview.422329/page-3


Lol the fuck is this supposed to prove?


And here's my post shittin on his point:

"RIGHT THATS WHY DAZ, MEL-MAN, MIKE ELIZANDO, FOCUS ETC HAVE MADE PRODUCTIONS ON THEIR OWN THAT RIVAL DRE'S WORK .. OR NOT"

jaytee

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2016, 09:51:39 PM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.  For example, if I'm a basketball player and happen to diagram a play, that doesn't mean I'm now the coach or assistant coach.  I just happened to draw up that one particular play during a time-out.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s</a>

If you're a producer and you want to give a studio musician co-producer credit because he came up with a nice tune in a session, feel free to do so.  That's your prerogative, but it's definitely not the industry standard regardless of genre of music. 




Hutch states in the video that his beat was not used on the album.  It was replaced by one done by Swizz Beats and P. Killer.  Elements of what he contributed (concepts, directions, melodies, etc.) during the initial sessions were still present in the song.  You're going to have to focus on more than just who played what on the instrumental if you're going to use his situation as stealing production credit.  He's basically saying that it doesn't matter if Swizz Beats came in with a new instrumental, it's still his song because of everything else that he did with that track that made it what it was.  Swizz Beats just brought in the beat....
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2016, 06:00:11 AM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.

Precise.
 

abusive

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2016, 06:43:33 PM »
Having good session musicians is an important part of the process.  They have a role to play, but they're not producing.  It's not their project and they don't really have any attachment to the project.  They have no say.  They come in and do as they are instructed to do.  It doesn't matter if they improvise or come up with something during a jam session.  For example, if I'm a basketball player and happen to diagram a play, that doesn't mean I'm now the coach or assistant coach.  I just happened to draw up that one particular play during a time-out.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ugVyMxdVG3s</a>

If you're a producer and you want to give a studio musician co-producer credit because he came up with a nice tune in a session, feel free to do so.  That's your prerogative, but it's definitely not the industry standard regardless of genre of music. 




Hutch states in the video that his beat was not used on the album.  It was replaced by one done by Swizz Beats and P. Killer.  Elements of what he contributed (concepts, directions, melodies, etc.) during the initial sessions were still present in the song.  You're going to have to focus on more than just who played what on the instrumental if you're going to use his situation as stealing production credit.  He's basically saying that it doesn't matter if Swizz Beats came in with a new instrumental, it's still his song because of everything else that he did with that track that made it what it was.  Swizz Beats just brought in the beat....
I obviously disagree with industry standard. Shout out to Suge and others who wanted to form the music industry union and challenge age old traditions.
Not in every situation are musicians told what to play. Regardless of whether they are or not, the point is that they played.
I don't see the difference from someone sampling to make a beat. The people who's music is used gets paid. Not once but every time the sampled song makes revenue. Most of the sampled material came from live instrumentation. 

The Hutch situation was only posted to show that from DR to even Aftermath producers have been making the same allegations. If you want to go back even further you can say Ruthless because Suge has stated in his TMZ interview that they got the practice of taking artist ideas and using it from Ruthless which they applied to DR. Obviously if Dre was the primary music guy in the beginning at Ruthless and DR then this would implicate him as well. People like to blame Suge for the DR credit situation but then question the validity of me posting a situation that happened at Aftermath. My point in posting that has nothing to do with instrumentation either. I can't say that I'm building a case but if something along the lines of this discussion presents itself I will post it regards of the outcry from obsessed fans.
No man born of woman tho. Dead homies.

 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #118 on: May 02, 2016, 02:53:21 AM »
I don't hear a completely different beat. If you do then that's cool, I don't. You're lying to yourself if you think a fan of that album wouldn't be able to listen to the original beat and be able to tell what track it is on the album. Furthermore your argument is just silly. If it's completely different beat then why use the skeleton at all? You guys are saying I'm discrediting Dre why you discredit Daz and anyone Dre has worked with.

Never said that Dre wasn't the reason the song was finished or anything of that nature.

I don't discredit Daz - I'd said he's a great producer in his own right. But he ain't Dr. Dre and his body of work don't compare to that of Dre's - we ain't gonna argue about that one, do we?

I disagree that the people who make the music aren't producers.

That's your point of view, but the truth is - dude who plays bass ain't a producer, he's a session player. Dude, who play keys ain't a producer either - he contribute in one element and that's playing keys. So you can't say he did more to make a finished product sound the way it is that a main producer like Dre, who's puuting all pieces together and usually tells a keyboard player what kind of melody he should play, so you can't put a "=" mark between Dre and let's say a Mark Batson, because they didn't contribute the same effort when it comes to making a finished product.

Daz may have needed Dre back in '93 but not now. Sorry you think that it's some magnificent feat to get a beat, bring in people who can play the instruments live play, try and find ways to improve and have the finished product professionally mixed and mastered.

In some case - yes, it's a magnificent feat because records like "Doggystyle", or "The Chronic" don't come very often. Plus, if it was so easy every top producer in the game would provide hit after hit, and like you can see - almost none of them are capable of doing it and be consistent about it. Same goes with rappers - there's a selected few that can match their best record and Dre's one of them, when it comes to "The Chronic" and "2001". He succeded when most of them failed - Snoop couldn't do it, 50 couldn't do it, even Em had major problems of coming close to MMLP, and all these dudes had access to every top producer, musician, keyboard player in the world. So it ain't as easy, as you think it is bro.

This notion that artist who produce on the level of Dre should be on his level but aren't so they must not be as good is silly. If you are in the biz like you say then you should know that talent is only apart of the game. It doesn't get you everywhere.

Your right - hard work beats talent, when talent dosen't work hard. That's what separates Dre from others - his work ethic. That's the main reason other talented producers like Mel-Man, Sam Sneed, J-Flexx and others didn't get to that level. They had talent, but they didn't push themselves as hard as Dre did, bottom line. It ain't about being blackballed, or being an "illuminati puppet" - it's about hard work and dedication.

You mention the DR credits but ignore the Aftermath suit that Hutch had.

I disagree - Dre learned his lesson on Death Row, that's why most Aftermath releases have booklets giving credit to everybody involved. Check out "The Documentary" for example:
https://www.discogs.com/The-Game-The-Documentary/release/5830753

It says loud and clear who made what - same goes for 50 or Eminem records.
 

Mietek23

Re: Real Credits Of "Chronic" & "Doggystyle"
« Reply #119 on: May 02, 2016, 02:56:09 AM »
I obviously disagree with industry standard. Shout out to Suge and others who wanted to form the music industry union and challenge age old traditions.
Not in every situation are musicians told what to play. Regardless of whether they are or not, the point is that they played.
I don't see the difference from someone sampling to make a beat. The people who's music is used gets paid. Not once but every time the sampled song makes revenue. Most of the sampled material came from live instrumentation. 

The Hutch situation was only posted to show that from DR to even Aftermath producers have been making the same allegations. If you want to go back even further you can say Ruthless because Suge has stated in his TMZ interview that they got the practice of taking artist ideas and using it from Ruthless which they applied to DR. Obviously if Dre was the primary music guy in the beginning at Ruthless and DR then this would implicate him as well. People like to blame Suge for the DR credit situation but then question the validity of me posting a situation that happened at Aftermath. My point in posting that has nothing to do with instrumentation either. I can't say that I'm building a case but if something along the lines of this discussion presents itself I will post it regards of the outcry from obsessed fans.

Suge is the last credible person, when it comes to every Dr.Dre-related topic bro - c'mon now ::)