Author Topic: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...  (Read 2998 times)

M Dogg™

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Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2016, 01:31:00 PM »
First off, I can't think of one single Master P classic album, and on top of that looking back everyone thought he was wack and no one have him 5 mics or a XXL. So he don't count to me.

'Pac had bars and raw emotion. Please, plus he had so many diss songs it was unreal. Dude would eat Game and Game would tell you that too.

Ghetto tryna kill me and ice cream man

Ice Cream Man was 4 mics, and that's a good rating for it. Bout It, Bout It was alright, and it set the foundation for a good 4 year No Limit run. But it wasn't a classic. I've never seen any Master P album on CREDIBLE hip-hop reviewers classic list. Putting any Master P album in any classic list really waters down the label classic, especially if no credible hip-hop journalist has any of his albums on any classics list.

With that said, that The Ghettos Tryin to Kill Me album cover, that has always been a personal classic since I was 16. LOL. I was trying to look at her too.

Your average hip-hop reviewer is an east coast dick rider who doesn't even recognize the bay as a region

Master P is from New Orleans.


His early music was bay shit

But Ice Cream Man was clearly a southern album

It's a mix .. U familiar with K-Lou?

I saw his name in a couple of credits, but I can't really say I know who he is or what his signature sound is.
 

bouli77

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2016, 02:27:25 PM »
First off, I can't think of one single Master P classic album, and on top of that looking back everyone thought he was wack and no one have him 5 mics or a XXL. So he don't count to me.

'Pac had bars and raw emotion. Please, plus he had so many diss songs it was unreal. Dude would eat Game and Game would tell you that too.

Ghetto tryna kill me and ice cream man

Ice Cream Man was 4 mics, and that's a good rating for it. Bout It, Bout It was alright, and it set the foundation for a good 4 year No Limit run. But it wasn't a classic. I've never seen any Master P album on CREDIBLE hip-hop reviewers classic list. Putting any Master P album in any classic list really waters down the label classic, especially if no credible hip-hop journalist has any of his albums on any classics list.

With that said, that The Ghettos Tryin to Kill Me album cover, that has always been a personal classic since I was 16. LOL. I was trying to look at her too.

Your average hip-hop reviewer is an east coast dick rider who doesn't even recognize the bay as a region

Master P is from New Orleans.

His early music was bay shit

But Ice Cream Man was clearly a southern album

no it's not, the first real southern album from Master P was Ghetto D, and even then it still a couple of bay sounding songs on it. Ice Cream Man was a mixture between songs recorded in the Bay where he reps Richmond, and songs recorded in the South as P gradually moved back to Louisiana.

Bay songs :
- Ice Cream Man (produced by K-Lou)
- Playa from around the way
- Selling Ice Cream (hence the chorus "Just another day selling Ice Cream in the Bay)
- Things Ain't What They Used to Be
- Time for a 187 (produced by DJ Daryl of 2pac fame)
- Half on a Bag of Dank ("cali got that good ass weed)
- How G's Ride (produced by K-Lou featuring Big Ed, quintessential bay sound)
- Watch Deez Hoez

South songs :
- Never-ending Game
- Ghetto Heroes
- Bout It Bout It II
- No More Tears
- Break 'Em Off Something'
- Time to check my crackhouse
- Back Up Off Me
- Bout That Drama
- Killer Pussy

and among these songs, many have a mixture of both sounds as south producers like KLC and Mo B. Dick stayed in Richmond with P and K-Lou and soaked up musical influences from there (and vice versa). Songs like Back Up off Me or Back Up Off Me have elements often used in g-funk / mobb music.

as for the Ghetto's Tryin' To Kill, it's a genuine, 100% bay area album. nothing but bay producers and features : JT The Bigga Figga, San Quinn, Lil Ric, K-Lou, EA Ski, etc.
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2016, 02:42:24 PM »
First off, I can't think of one single Master P classic album, and on top of that looking back everyone thought he was wack and no one have him 5 mics or a XXL. So he don't count to me.

'Pac had bars and raw emotion. Please, plus he had so many diss songs it was unreal. Dude would eat Game and Game would tell you that too.

Ghetto tryna kill me and ice cream man

Ice Cream Man was 4 mics, and that's a good rating for it. Bout It, Bout It was alright, and it set the foundation for a good 4 year No Limit run. But it wasn't a classic. I've never seen any Master P album on CREDIBLE hip-hop reviewers classic list. Putting any Master P album in any classic list really waters down the label classic, especially if no credible hip-hop journalist has any of his albums on any classics list.

With that said, that The Ghettos Tryin to Kill Me album cover, that has always been a personal classic since I was 16. LOL. I was trying to look at her too.

Your average hip-hop reviewer is an east coast dick rider who doesn't even recognize the bay as a region

Master P is from New Orleans.

His early music was bay shit

But Ice Cream Man was clearly a southern album

no it's not, the first real southern album from Master P was Ghetto D, and even then it still a couple of bay sounding songs on it. Ice Cream Man was a mixture between songs recorded in the Bay where he reps Richmond, and songs recorded in the South as P gradually moved back to Louisiana.

Bay songs :
- Ice Cream Man (produced by K-Lou)
- Playa from around the way
- Selling Ice Cream (hence the chorus "Just another day selling Ice Cream in the Bay)
- Things Ain't What They Used to Be
- Time for a 187 (produced by DJ Daryl of 2pac fame)
- Half on a Bag of Dank ("cali got that good ass weed)
- How G's Ride (produced by K-Lou featuring Big Ed, quintessential bay sound)
- Watch Deez Hoez

South songs :
- Never-ending Game
- Ghetto Heroes
- Bout It Bout It II
- No More Tears
- Break 'Em Off Something'
- Time to check my crackhouse
- Back Up Off Me
- Bout That Drama
- Killer Pussy

and among these songs, many have a mixture of both sounds as south producers like KLC and Mo B. Dick stayed in Richmond with P and K-Lou and soaked up musical influences from there (and vice versa). Songs like Back Up off Me or Back Up Off Me have elements often used in g-funk / mobb music.

as for the Ghetto's Tryin' To Kill, it's a genuine, 100% bay area album. nothing but bay producers and features : JT The Bigga Figga, San Quinn, Lil Ric, K-Lou, EA Ski, etc.


And yet, with all that said, I still ain't heard no one claim it's a classic. Ice Cream Man to me, when I heard it in the 90's, it was a southern album. Maybe because back then the south wasn't as big, and the sound wasn't as defined. But I personally wasn't feeling it, and no one else was feeling it in terms of calling it a classic. So clearly it wasn't a classic. Bottomline. Even if half the album was Bay influenced, it wasn't a classic. Bay Area or not, it wasn't a 5 mic album. The Ghetto Is Trying to Kill Me, not a classic. It was a regional album next to Lil' Half Dead's album at the Wherehouse, but no one I know was going, Pick up that new Master P, it's tight. It was only known because it was re-released and no one called it a classic.
 

bouli77

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »
i wasn't discussing whether it's a classic or not. you said it was clearly a southern album, when it's a little more complicated than that. i simply explained why.


it's not a classic in the musical sense of the term, i.e. the word classic doesn't equate good in this case but it's a classic in the sense a "staple", a game changer. Ice Cream Man and Ghetto D. were the blueprint for successful independent albums and marked the shift from music trends dictated by music execs, a&r, and industry people to music dictated by street marketing tactics. it showed the industry that you could it yourself, not cater to any standard (musically, lyrically), be country and be successful.

in that sense, Ice Cream Man matches the original sense of the world "classic" : a reference, a go to album, a staple, irrespective of its intrinsic quality. and to this day Master P is still known as Mr Ice Cream Man, it's no coincidence. Ice Cream Man, despite being a half bay album (whose local scene always had ties with the South), is one of the most important albums from a historical standpoint. It launched No Limit onto a whole bigger sphere.
 
without Ice Cream Man, it's safe to say that No Limit wouldn't have evolved into the independent, self made and owned hit making machine that it later became by transitioning from a west coast sound to a south sound at the right time, especially since Ice Cream Man was a ground breaking album cause it changed the rules of the distribution deals between independent labels and majors.

so yeah, Ice Cream Man is a classic because its release marked a shift of power between independent labels and majors, and because its release resonated in the industry, maybe not in IE or San Bernardino, but in the South and the East. That's why you got Nas and Jay Z to jump on the No Limit Bandwagon when it's clear they didn't think much (to say the least) of No Limit's music (understandably so from their perspective). You don't have to be a 5 mic album to be a classic.
 

Blood$

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2016, 05:08:49 PM »
i wasn't discussing whether it's a classic or not. you said it was clearly a southern album, when it's a little more complicated than that. i simply explained why.


it's not a classic in the musical sense of the term, i.e. the word classic doesn't equate good in this case but it's a classic in the sense a "staple", a game changer. Ice Cream Man and Ghetto D. were the blueprint for successful independent albums and marked the shift from music trends dictated by music execs, a&r, and industry people to music dictated by street marketing tactics. it showed the industry that you could it yourself, not cater to any standard (musically, lyrically), be country and be successful.

in that sense, Ice Cream Man matches the original sense of the world "classic" : a reference, a go to album, a staple, irrespective of its intrinsic quality. and to this day Master P is still known as Mr Ice Cream Man, it's no coincidence. Ice Cream Man, despite being a half bay album (whose local scene always had ties with the South), is one of the most important albums from a historical standpoint. It launched No Limit onto a whole bigger sphere.
 
without Ice Cream Man, it's safe to say that No Limit wouldn't have evolved into the independent, self made and owned hit making machine that it later became by transitioning from a west coast sound to a south sound at the right time, especially since Ice Cream Man was a ground breaking album cause it changed the rules of the distribution deals between independent labels and majors.

so yeah, Ice Cream Man is a classic because its release marked a shift of power between independent labels and majors, and because its release resonated in the industry, maybe not in IE or San Bernardino, but in the South and the East. That's why you got Nas and Jay Z to jump on the No Limit Bandwagon when it's clear they didn't think much (to say the least) of No Limit's music (understandably so from their perspective). You don't have to be a 5 mic album to be a classic.


all facts
 

M Dogg™

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Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2016, 09:52:33 AM »
No Limit was not the first independent label to go big. The problem with the narrative Master P sells is that it forgets that Death Row was an independent, he really copied Eazy E'z blueprint as Ruthless being an independent and even used Priority which worked with all independents in distribution deals.

I wrote a LOT about this in old Junkyards about this time period. What you are talking about in terms of independent influence also is unfounded. No Limit was one of the LAST independents to do major deals. You forget about Def Jam being an independent label, I'd say Rap-A-Lot Records was WAY more important for promoting southern rap and it was an independent label, Luke Records, which crossed over with Anquette. In the late-90's, record labels were merging with major labels as major labels saw that Hip-Hop was more than a fade so they wanted a larger piece of it. RCA took greater control of Jive, Warner Bros. took greater control of Tommy Boy, EMI bought Priority Records in 1998, Interscope Records was bought by MCA in 1995 (Interscope itself was considered an independent label as they focused on alternative rock and hip-hop and really had no major label backing), Def Jam Records was merged into MCA Records in 1998. The game was changing, and Master P did what he could to keep No Limit afloat as an independent label. But Master P had very little to do with how independent labels operate, other than do what was already done.

With all of that said, there is not much to support any Master P album being called classic other than a small number of people want it to be a classic. With that said, you can find a small number of people who want almost any artist to have their album be called a classic. You can find a bunch of 16 year olds right now who'd call Drake's Take Care a classic. It's the closest he has to a classic, but I have seen hardly anyone call it a classic. Maybe in this new world of social media, I'm looking in the wrong places, but I haven't seen it. But I DO know all the old places to look in the 90's, I read them every month. And I saw NO ONE call anything Master P did a classic, and I saw NO ONE call it classic in retrospect. Even Lil' Wayne stuff gets put up in retrospect. But not Master P.
 

bouli77

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2016, 10:53:40 AM »
I guess we can agree to disagree but the way No Limit took the game by storm really had a lasting impact and Ice Cream Man and Ghetto D are still references of P's streak.

P was not the first independent label but it was the first of a new era of independent label with COMPLETE freedom, the ability to keep all of his masters, to get a huge advance and get the lion's share of the sales profits. The No Limit/Priority deal was 75/25 which was unheard of at the time except for E-40's deal with Jive and E-40's deal with Jive was modest because E-40 didn't have the success No Limit and Master P reached. Jive was mostly interested in buying market shares. Then came the ridiculous Cash Money deal brokered by the same person behind Master P's deal. It was a very different business model from Def Jam's, Death Row's and Ruthless's. You're right about Rap-a-Lot too.

You're still missing the point about the difference between a "quality" classic and a classic in the original sense of the term though. An album that paved the way and still gets talked about and had a lasting impact one way or another on the culture. Master P doesn't have the most obvious of classics but his successful run is symbolized by two quintessential albums : Ice Cream Man and Ghetto D. Solid albums, excellent for some, mediocre for others but it changed the way rappers promoted their music, the way labels advertised their other music ad features (even though it was started on a more minor scale by Tony Draper).

Same goes for Trap Muzik and Thug Motivation 101 : Let's Get It! We can discuss the actual quality of these albums, but their monumental impact on the culture cannot be denied. They really set a pattern and a standard which has been duplicated and derivated by many influential rappers since.
 

Sccit

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2016, 11:09:25 AM »
Sorry, but to say no one calls any of master p's work classic is ridiculous:

http://rapmusic.com/threads/master-p-ghetto-d-classic.1230939/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/411727590909999146/

M Dogg™

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SuperSpider

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2016, 03:41:43 PM »
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/whats-the-hhbs-consensus-on-how-many-classic-albums-lil-b-has.453930471/page-2

A thread that says at least 3 of Lil B's albums were absolute classics. No pressure
 

Blood$

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2016, 05:30:52 PM »
a classic album isn't a classic unless some hipster nerd that worked for The Source in the 1990s says so, end of thread

the people in the streets and word of mouth have no value in hip-hop
 

Sccit

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2016, 06:07:56 PM »
a classic album isn't a classic unless some hipster nerd that worked for The Source in the 1990s says so, end of thread

the people in the streets and word of mouth have no value in hip-hop


It'd be one thing if there was some dispute .. But literally every post in that thread I linked called it classic. Now, I don't even really consider it a classic myself, because I define classic by quality above impact. But to me, ghettos tryna kill me is a bay classic, either way, and I won't fault someone for claimin ghetto d a classic.

Blood$

Re: Worst Rappers to have a classic album...
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2016, 09:48:57 PM »
a classic album isn't a classic unless some hipster nerd that worked for The Source in the 1990s says so, end of thread

the people in the streets and word of mouth have no value in hip-hop


It'd be one thing if there was some dispute .. But literally every post in that thread I linked called it classic. Now, I don't even really consider it a classic myself, because I define classic by quality above impact. But to me, ghettos tryna kill me is a bay classic, either way, and I won't fault someone for claimin ghetto d a classic.

this thread made me have to put on Mr. Ice Cream Man in the ride earlier lol I actually haven't played that one in full in awhile