Author Topic: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother  (Read 3704 times)

Jay Wallace

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2017, 12:02:39 PM »
Here we go again….

Interesting Spin -- I can tell you I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" multiple times on the radio -- that was the Remix, so it's like the "Ha Remix" from Juvy, the song itself was the hit, and the Remix was a sub-hit that drove DJ Clue album and Dogg Pound "2002" album debuting at #36 as you correctly pointed out.
 
 

It isn’t a spin.  You claim to have heard it multiple times on the radio but there is no listing of it as being a major rotation in terms of radio spins or even being pressed/released as a radio single so even if your account is accurate, that isn’t evidence of it being any kind of hit, it means you heard it on a specific radio station.  You’ve already set a precidenct as having a very exaggerated and questionable view of what constitutes a “hit” and having shaky recollections of how big certain singles/videos were.

2Pac + Outlawz - Still I Rise -- Suge is the executive producer

Uncredited.  Suge and Afeni would have been executive producers as Amaru/Death Row were involved in the production of the album but both labels pulled their credit over disputes stemming from the success of “Greatest Hits”.  There isn’t a Death Row or Amaru logo on any portion of the physical CD release and they are not credited as executive producers in the album booklet.  You are making the argument that “Still I Rise” sold of the strength of Death Row’s popularity and they weren’t actively promoted as being involved with the project.

Be careful with Wikipedia -- ANYONE can edit those articles - have to look at the Sources on anything on that website
 
 

True, which is why, in this case, I brought up the actual album release, which only has Interscope Records as a listed label with the copyright notice.   In other cases, I have cited only information that has a link to it, such as Billboard website numbers.

Yes, YGD the Top Dogg was the big push for Death Row -- He got a bigger push than Crooked I, and Crook got a push too.
 

Completely untrue.  Suge wasn’t home during Top Dogg’s peak role at Death Row.  Crooked I was easily the most pushed artist from 2000 until about late 2003.  He was going to be on the first single from the 2Pac Vault project until Amaru pulled rank and had it changed.  He put him on 2002 with “Gangsta Rap” (presumably, the intro to the song was added to more prominently feature him), he mentioned him in several interviews as being “the best in the West”, he brought him to New York to debut “So Damn Hood” during an interview with Angie Martinez, he was featured on the XXL cover with the new roster (May 2003), he brought up on national TV for an interview with Jay Mohr on Real Sports where he specifically brought him out in the middle of the interview and had him spit a freestyle, he was the most featured artist on “Dysfunktional Family” soundtrack with six songs and was the featured artist on the selected single/video.  Suge was actually out of prison at this point and could actually promote him but it just didn’t pick up how it should have and by late 2003, he was asking to leave and was getting fazed out in favor of Kurupt.  He wasn’t being blackballed for working with Irv Gotti.  Suge stopped promoting him because he was pushing to be released from his contract with the label.

Suge put A LOT of stock in him when he shocked the world with the "Goin Back To Cali" track he threw on the Gang Related Soundtrack that you had to let play through a blank segment to hear

Yes, lots of stock in him by putting him in a hidden track on a two-disc album with no mention in the credits that wasn’t even included in but a rare amount of pressings. Most versions of that album don’t even contain that song and he’s not featured anywhere else on that album. 

then he invested in his future with the 2Pac single (that was the big push to introduce him to the world, during a highpoint of Pac's career after he had the "Changes" single, just right after he passed)

Gang Related was released in October 1997.  2Pac’s “Greatest Hits” didn’t come out until November 1998.  In between that time, Death Row put out two solo albums (Daz, Mich’elle).  Neither one had a single Top Dogg/YGD track on there.  Now, “Changes” was already acknowledged as being the first single, which means it would have been the most prominently-pushed song connected to that project.  In other words, they wouldn’t have pushed anything else on that album for months.  And when they did release a second single, it was “Unconditional Love”.  They shot a video for that one and it never got much play. 

Contrary to what you think, “All About U” was a three-year-old already released song.  They added Top Dogg because they didn’t want to feature Snoop and had an unreleased video they filmed with Pac already. It never took off as a major hit.  Period.

He was pushed on MTV and magazines, that was the big medium in 1998 for music

No, he wasn’t.  In 1998, they had already pulled “Goin’ Back to Cali” from the retail release of Gang Related soundtrack.  He wasn’t on RRGB or Hung Jury and didn’t have any videos out.  Why would he be on MTV and what would he be promoting?  Why would the label be pushing him over the artists that actually had music out?

Suge was running around mentioning he's got the Top Dogg coming out and signed up on his label.

Running around where exactly?  Suge was locked up in prison from 1997 until 2001. He was very rarely granted in-person interviews.  Most interviews were conducted in print via prison telephone or by having a reporter go in with a notepad or recorder.  And at this point, the focus of the media was far more into the East/West feud, the murders of Tupac and Biggie, the falling out with Dre and Snoop, and his time in prison.  He wasn’t heavily promoting new artists and even if he was, I doubt the magazines would have made them the focus when he was being connected to murder conspiracies and extortion.

Sure, but they didn't make videos just for the
memories -- remember the costs involved with these videos in the 90's and early 2000's -- Videos have actually went backwards as far as budgets since CD Bootlegs & videos moved from television to the internet (they stopped putting the Busta Rhymes $300k videos together for the most part when it shifted off tv to the net)
 

No, they made them to promote their music but not every music video that gets made is played in heavy rotation.  Loads of big-budget videos were being made at that time.  Not all were being played.  New Death Row videos were not getting played frequently in 1997-98.  You had Tupac and that was about it. And even some of his videos were not getting heavily played.

Irv Gotti did WAY more than put them "in a video" -- he featured them heavily on his projects heavily -- in fact, they got more prime exposure with Murder Inc at that time because that label ran the game until 50 Cent rubbed them out 
 

Heavily, huh?  Let’s examine this. 

The first Murder Inc. release to feature Death Row artists was “Irv Gotti Presents, The Inc”.  It featured one song, “Next Nigguz”, which had Crooked I and Eastwood on it with five other featured artists.  Not only was it not a single but nobody on that song even went on to have an album for years.  This would have been at the peak of Murder Inc’s popularity, right before they start to fall. 

The second release to feature them was the “Remix” version of the same album.  This, once again, had ONE feature.  Crooked I on “Baby” with Ashanti.  Contrary to your theory that “the label ran the game”, this was late 2002 and people were getting tired of them. This album debuted at #26. It should also be noted that “Baby” came with numerous versions (one with Scarface, one solo, and one with Crooked) and Crooked was never pushed as a prominent selling point.   Crooked ended up being in the video but since he wasn’t on the version on Ashanti’s album (which went multi-platinum), the exposure was limited.

Their third and final appearance was on “Connected” on Ja Rule’s Last Temptation.  Not a single.  Released right around the time when the label was starting to sink. 

By my calculations, that amounts to approximately three songs and one video.  The closest claim to fame here was being in a video for an Ashanti single and being included in a posse cut with Cadillac Tah on the last top-selling album Murder Inc had. 
Since you’re the one making the claim, how exactly were they being “heavily featured” again?

Hutch and the Outlawz's E.D.I. were credited as music supervisors, and Suge Knight was the OG Executive Producer on "Still I Rise" -- Here's an article with Hutch talking about being the Dr. Dre of Death Row after he took Daz's job as Lead Producer:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1445272/with-suge-behind-bars-big-hutch-is-in-charge/
 
 

You got your facts mixed up, homeboy.  Read your own article again.  It says Hutch and E.D.I. were music supervisors on Until The End of Time, not Still I Rise.  From what I understand, Hutch didn’t come onboard until Too Gangsta For Radio. 

As I mentioned before, this is where the disagreements came up with Amaru, in that Amaru wasn't all bout it bout it with Suge using 2Pac's Material to build the new Death Row, whereas Suge took the standpoint that Pac always worked with Tha Row in-house artists -- this is where a lot of events happened behind the scenes in that Suge didn't want these Pac albums becoming mainstream politicized events with all these mainstream cats like Eminem allover Pac material, where Afeni wanted to make the money this way -- On the other hand, Afeni didn't want Hutch calling all the shots and loading up the album with Death Row artists so that Suge could push his new roster -- she viewed this as Suge running it as promotional vehicle for the new roster rather than trying to capitalize and max out sales -- that's why she was okay with Daz, but didn't know Hutch -- Daz was supposed to be the shotcaller behind Suge with the Pac projects before he was fired, then all of a sudden Big Hutch comes along, and they want to put the new artists on there
 
 
Parts of this are true.  Afeni didn’t want Suge using Pac to promote Death Row but more specifically, she didn’t want anyone using Pac.  She wanted complete control of his music and likeness.  She compromised with Death Row because they had some legal ground to stand on because of the contracts.  I have never heard anything about her being specifically being against Hutch doing anything and she definitely wasn’t pulling for Daz.  Those two had a huge falling out over “Makaveli & Dillinger” and he was dissing her pretty regularly on his website by this point so I don’t know where you got your info from.  Seems like you took a small piece of truth and used it to spin your own story.

These are a few of the many many tracks that Death Row recorded lining up the new roster for the 2Pac albums (and there are MANY, this is just a small little appetizer):
-- Pushed back to Kurupt's album
 

Not pushed back.  Kurupt didn’t record this until he came back.  He wasn’t working with Death Row during the UTEOT recordings.  Hell, it’s pretty clear by Kurupt’s lyrics on the song that this was recorded much later as he’s throwing shade at artists being inserted into Pac’s music who never knew him and this really hadn’t become a trend until later on.  UTEOT predates the addition of Nas, Ja Rule, Eminem, 50 Cent, and others being added to Pac recordings. Kurupt, while not publicly beefing with Suge, did not have a working relationship with Death Row from 1999 until he went back in 2002.
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2017, 12:52:30 PM »
I have physical copies of both the original and re-released Gang Related Soundtrack and neither have hidden tracks. For the re-release the songs by Top Dogg and Chocolate Bandit have full credits in them. I don't know what Love33 is smoking with all these Death Row fairy tales, but he's wildly off-base with most of everything he posts.
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2017, 10:44:23 PM »
I have physical copies of both the original and re-released Gang Related Soundtrack and neither have hidden tracks. For the re-release the songs by Top Dogg and Chocolate Bandit have full credits in them. I don't know what Love33 is smoking with all these Death Row fairy tales, but he's wildly off-base with most of everything he posts.

On my copy of Gang Related, it plays blank at the end for a few minutes then "Goin Back To Cali" comes on
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2017, 12:06:52 AM »
Here we go again….

Interesting Spin -- I can tell you I remember hearing "Change The Game Remix" multiple times on the radio -- that was the Remix, so it's like the "Ha Remix" from Juvy, the song itself was the hit, and the Remix was a sub-hit that drove DJ Clue album and Dogg Pound "2002" album debuting at #36 as you correctly pointed out.
 
 

It isn’t a spin.  You claim to have heard it multiple times on the radio but there is no listing of it as being a major rotation in terms of radio spins or even being pressed/released as a radio single so even if your account is accurate, that isn’t evidence of it being any kind of hit, it means you heard it on a specific radio station.  You’ve already set a precidenct as having a very exaggerated and questionable view of what constitutes a “hit” and having shaky recollections of how big certain singles/videos were.

2Pac + Outlawz - Still I Rise -- Suge is the executive producer

Uncredited.  Suge and Afeni would have been executive producers as Amaru/Death Row were involved in the production of the album but both labels pulled their credit over disputes stemming from the success of “Greatest Hits”.  There isn’t a Death Row or Amaru logo on any portion of the physical CD release and they are not credited as executive producers in the album booklet.  You are making the argument that “Still I Rise” sold of the strength of Death Row’s popularity and they weren’t actively promoted as being involved with the project.

Be careful with Wikipedia -- ANYONE can edit those articles - have to look at the Sources on anything on that website
 
 

True, which is why, in this case, I brought up the actual album release, which only has Interscope Records as a listed label with the copyright notice.   In other cases, I have cited only information that has a link to it, such as Billboard website numbers.

Yes, YGD the Top Dogg was the big push for Death Row -- He got a bigger push than Crooked I, and Crook got a push too.
 

Completely untrue.  Suge wasn’t home during Top Dogg’s peak role at Death Row.  Crooked I was easily the most pushed artist from 2000 until about late 2003.  He was going to be on the first single from the 2Pac Vault project until Amaru pulled rank and had it changed.  He put him on 2002 with “Gangsta Rap” (presumably, the intro to the song was added to more prominently feature him), he mentioned him in several interviews as being “the best in the West”, he brought him to New York to debut “So Damn Hood” during an interview with Angie Martinez, he was featured on the XXL cover with the new roster (May 2003), he brought up on national TV for an interview with Jay Mohr on Real Sports where he specifically brought him out in the middle of the interview and had him spit a freestyle, he was the most featured artist on “Dysfunktional Family” soundtrack with six songs and was the featured artist on the selected single/video.  Suge was actually out of prison at this point and could actually promote him but it just didn’t pick up how it should have and by late 2003, he was asking to leave and was getting fazed out in favor of Kurupt.  He wasn’t being blackballed for working with Irv Gotti.  Suge stopped promoting him because he was pushing to be released from his contract with the label.

Suge put A LOT of stock in him when he shocked the world with the "Goin Back To Cali" track he threw on the Gang Related Soundtrack that you had to let play through a blank segment to hear

Yes, lots of stock in him by putting him in a hidden track on a two-disc album with no mention in the credits that wasn’t even included in but a rare amount of pressings. Most versions of that album don’t even contain that song and he’s not featured anywhere else on that album. 

then he invested in his future with the 2Pac single (that was the big push to introduce him to the world, during a highpoint of Pac's career after he had the "Changes" single, just right after he passed)

Gang Related was released in October 1997.  2Pac’s “Greatest Hits” didn’t come out until November 1998.  In between that time, Death Row put out two solo albums (Daz, Mich’elle).  Neither one had a single Top Dogg/YGD track on there.  Now, “Changes” was already acknowledged as being the first single, which means it would have been the most prominently-pushed song connected to that project.  In other words, they wouldn’t have pushed anything else on that album for months.  And when they did release a second single, it was “Unconditional Love”.  They shot a video for that one and it never got much play. 

Contrary to what you think, “All About U” was a three-year-old already released song.  They added Top Dogg because they didn’t want to feature Snoop and had an unreleased video they filmed with Pac already. It never took off as a major hit.  Period.

He was pushed on MTV and magazines, that was the big medium in 1998 for music

No, he wasn’t.  In 1998, they had already pulled “Goin’ Back to Cali” from the retail release of Gang Related soundtrack.  He wasn’t on RRGB or Hung Jury and didn’t have any videos out.  Why would he be on MTV and what would he be promoting?  Why would the label be pushing him over the artists that actually had music out?

Suge was running around mentioning he's got the Top Dogg coming out and signed up on his label.

Running around where exactly?  Suge was locked up in prison from 1997 until 2001. He was very rarely granted in-person interviews.  Most interviews were conducted in print via prison telephone or by having a reporter go in with a notepad or recorder.  And at this point, the focus of the media was far more into the East/West feud, the murders of Tupac and Biggie, the falling out with Dre and Snoop, and his time in prison.  He wasn’t heavily promoting new artists and even if he was, I doubt the magazines would have made them the focus when he was being connected to murder conspiracies and extortion.

Sure, but they didn't make videos just for the
memories -- remember the costs involved with these videos in the 90's and early 2000's -- Videos have actually went backwards as far as budgets since CD Bootlegs & videos moved from television to the internet (they stopped putting the Busta Rhymes $300k videos together for the most part when it shifted off tv to the net)
 

No, they made them to promote their music but not every music video that gets made is played in heavy rotation.  Loads of big-budget videos were being made at that time.  Not all were being played.  New Death Row videos were not getting played frequently in 1997-98.  You had Tupac and that was about it. And even some of his videos were not getting heavily played.

Irv Gotti did WAY more than put them "in a video" -- he featured them heavily on his projects heavily -- in fact, they got more prime exposure with Murder Inc at that time because that label ran the game until 50 Cent rubbed them out 
 

Heavily, huh?  Let’s examine this. 

The first Murder Inc. release to feature Death Row artists was “Irv Gotti Presents, The Inc”.  It featured one song, “Next Nigguz”, which had Crooked I and Eastwood on it with five other featured artists.  Not only was it not a single but nobody on that song even went on to have an album for years.  This would have been at the peak of Murder Inc’s popularity, right before they start to fall. 

The second release to feature them was the “Remix” version of the same album.  This, once again, had ONE feature.  Crooked I on “Baby” with Ashanti.  Contrary to your theory that “the label ran the game”, this was late 2002 and people were getting tired of them. This album debuted at #26. It should also be noted that “Baby” came with numerous versions (one with Scarface, one solo, and one with Crooked) and Crooked was never pushed as a prominent selling point.   Crooked ended up being in the video but since he wasn’t on the version on Ashanti’s album (which went multi-platinum), the exposure was limited.

Their third and final appearance was on “Connected” on Ja Rule’s Last Temptation.  Not a single.  Released right around the time when the label was starting to sink. 

By my calculations, that amounts to approximately three songs and one video.  The closest claim to fame here was being in a video for an Ashanti single and being included in a posse cut with Cadillac Tah on the last top-selling album Murder Inc had. 
Since you’re the one making the claim, how exactly were they being “heavily featured” again?

Hutch and the Outlawz's E.D.I. were credited as music supervisors, and Suge Knight was the OG Executive Producer on "Still I Rise" -- Here's an article with Hutch talking about being the Dr. Dre of Death Row after he took Daz's job as Lead Producer:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1445272/with-suge-behind-bars-big-hutch-is-in-charge/
 
 

You got your facts mixed up, homeboy.  Read your own article again.  It says Hutch and E.D.I. were music supervisors on Until The End of Time, not Still I Rise.  From what I understand, Hutch didn’t come onboard until Too Gangsta For Radio. 

As I mentioned before, this is where the disagreements came up with Amaru, in that Amaru wasn't all bout it bout it with Suge using 2Pac's Material to build the new Death Row, whereas Suge took the standpoint that Pac always worked with Tha Row in-house artists -- this is where a lot of events happened behind the scenes in that Suge didn't want these Pac albums becoming mainstream politicized events with all these mainstream cats like Eminem allover Pac material, where Afeni wanted to make the money this way -- On the other hand, Afeni didn't want Hutch calling all the shots and loading up the album with Death Row artists so that Suge could push his new roster -- she viewed this as Suge running it as promotional vehicle for the new roster rather than trying to capitalize and max out sales -- that's why she was okay with Daz, but didn't know Hutch -- Daz was supposed to be the shotcaller behind Suge with the Pac projects before he was fired, then all of a sudden Big Hutch comes along, and they want to put the new artists on there
 
 
Parts of this are true.  Afeni didn’t want Suge using Pac to promote Death Row but more specifically, she didn’t want anyone using Pac.  She wanted complete control of his music and likeness.  She compromised with Death Row because they had some legal ground to stand on because of the contracts.  I have never heard anything about her being specifically being against Hutch doing anything and she definitely wasn’t pulling for Daz.  Those two had a huge falling out over “Makaveli & Dillinger” and he was dissing her pretty regularly on his website by this point so I don’t know where you got your info from.  Seems like you took a small piece of truth and used it to spin your own story.

These are a few of the many many tracks that Death Row recorded lining up the new roster for the 2Pac albums (and there are MANY, this is just a small little appetizer):
-- Pushed back to Kurupt's album
 

Not pushed back.  Kurupt didn’t record this until he came back.  He wasn’t working with Death Row during the UTEOT recordings.  Hell, it’s pretty clear by Kurupt’s lyrics on the song that this was recorded much later as he’s throwing shade at artists being inserted into Pac’s music who never knew him and this really hadn’t become a trend until later on.  UTEOT predates the addition of Nas, Ja Rule, Eminem, 50 Cent, and others being added to Pac recordings. Kurupt, while not publicly beefing with Suge, did not have a working relationship with Death Row from 1999 until he went back in 2002.


Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him.  Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)

DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?

YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.

(Source:  http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)

That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit!  Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)

There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)

Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST

Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!

Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him

Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")

Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2017, 08:42:06 AM »
Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him.  Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)

DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?

YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.

(Source:  http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)

That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit!  Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)

There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)

Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST

Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!

Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him

Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")

Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!

Funny you cited that interview because the very next question asks about an album

Quote
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?

YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.

DX:
What happened next? What progressed?

YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.

Top Dogg wasn't a "go-to" guy. You're having delusions of grandour if you think otherwise.

More falsehoods:

1) Crooked I never had a release date in stone, and the album that would have been released was "Say Hi To The Bad Guy", not "Hootstar"
2) Nate Dogg didn't have a long trip through the court systems. He actually won against Death Row and got the rights to his DR album, and was able to drop an album a year or so after leaving the label
 

2Relevant

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2017, 02:02:35 PM »
lol this thread is pure comedy to think this delusional  moron thinks tha fakest and top none were stars is hilarious :laugh:
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Tha Realest
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2017, 04:03:42 PM »
 
Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him. 
 
In what interviews?  Do you have a link?

Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)

The interviewer says he remembers seeing his videos.  Nothing about major spins.  I didn’t have BET back then but MTV sure as hell wasn’t playing those videos regularly.  Even the video in the link is from some obscure video network. 
Also, since you brought up the link, here’s a quote that contradicts your own statements.

"I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development."

These are the man's own words.  You said he was the big artist in 1998 but neither of those videos came out until, at least, 1999.  So I'll ask the question again - Why would he have been on MTV in 1998 for anything?

My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him.

And my point is you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.  A feature on a superstar rapper’s album is nowhere near what you make it out to be.  Plenty of artists end up featuring on major artist’s albums, that doesn’t immediately make them stars, at best, that helps generate a buzz. 

Ja Rule did songs and videos with lots of artists.  Cadillac Tah was featured on “Ain’t It Funny”, an actual #1 hit record with an actual mainstream video with Ja Rule and Jennifer Lopez.  More exposure than Crooked I and during a stronger selling point in Ja’s career.  What happened?  Nothing.  People remember the song for Ja Rule and J-Lo like they remember D-12 songs for Eminem and don’t remember which Outlaw is featured on what Pac song.  It’s not a diss.  MC Ren is featured in all of the NWA tracks and videos but he’s not put out there like Cube is.  Crooked I was never “pushed” by Irv Gotti.  He did a few songs with Murder, Inc. and it was when Ja was on the way down.  Irv actually “pulled” Vita, Charlie Baltimore, Cadillac Tah, and Black Child on numerous projects.  They didn’t become stars and they were constantly linked to Ja in videos, albums, singles, etc.  One guest verse isn’t going to make you a star.  Quit believing your own nonsense.

Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
 

Nope.  Top Dogg never got a real push.  He and Realest were looked as the artists during Chronic 2000 but no real money or promotion was ever put into them.  Death Row put out an official home video full of music videos in 1999 and the only time either one of them is featured is in a low-budget porno video for Daz’s song that has Tha Realest in it.  They weren’t getting magazine covers or big interviews.  When Tha Realest got shot in the studio in 1999 during the shooting that killed Kurupt’s bodyguard, The Source called him “Realness”. 

And enough with this “heavy feature” talk.  Comparing Crook at that point to Dre is absurd.  Dre was a superstar producer by the time he got on and the pushing of Snoop was far more substantial.  They didn’t just give him a forty-second verse at the end of a video.  They put him on equal billing and had him trade bars with Dre on Deep Cover and G-Thang.  He was constantly put next to him.  The people you’re mentioning were more like Bushwick Bill.  One song on The Chronic. 

Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine. 

Yes, that project was “Until The End of Time”.  We already went over this before. 

 
-- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")

And here is where you lose me.  Where did Afeni ever say any of this?

Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
 


Try to stay with me so this can hopefully, be the last time we go through this.  I didn’t say Death Row didn’t work on the album or list it on their website.  I said they took their name off the project.  It was intended as a Death Row/Amaru release but at some point, both labels removed their names from the project.  They both still include it as a release in their discography but they withdrew their logos and were not credited at the time of the release. 

It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website. 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 04:35:46 PM by Jay Wallace »
 

2Relevant

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2017, 04:34:44 PM »

 

 

It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website. 

[/quote]

and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2017, 12:42:54 AM »
Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him.  Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)

DX: You mention invisibility. You appeared in two major videos. I remember seeing you on MTV and BET. What did it mean for you to have the 2Pac “All About U” video, and then “Top Dogg Cindafella”?

YGD Top Dogg: [Laughs] Back then, if I was inside [with my friends], and the videos would come on, I’d go outside. I don’t wanna see the videos, I’m humble. If the video comes on, I’ll disappear. [Laughs] I never really let that shit go to my head.

(Source:  http://hiphopdx.com/news/id.16748/title.ygd-top-dogg-recalls-controversies-while-at-death-row-records-new-album)

That Crooked I promotion tour that you are referring to, I remember that, he played a completely different version of "So Damn Hood" that sounded way better on Hot97 -- but that was it, he had a ground game where Suge flew around with him and they made a nice couple of appearances on BET with Tha Row Hitterz -- Crook was there with Suge, Kurupt, NINA -- My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him than playing a track once or twice on Hot97 or putting a Billboard up of Crook taking a shit!  Crook had more of a ground game than Top Dogg (because Suge was locked down), but he never got the spins Top Dogg did on MTV and BET other than what Irv Gotti got him (and BET Uncut at 2 AM EST played "Still Tha Row", but the video for some reason was blackballed and considered 'too explicit' for daytime tv so he got screwed -- they also changed the beat on the video and it sounded off)

There's an interview, I should see if I can find it, I think it's Danny Boy, talking about how he believes Suge put him in stalemate -- and Danny B said that's what Suge does to his artists, he tells them to keep recording, and if he's pissed off at them low-key for something, he won't act like it, but he'll just blackball all your work (i.e. SNOOP getting blackballed around the time of Smokefest and several other examples) -- There was no payola to the radio stations because Death Row didn't have the distributor (D3 couldn't do much more than press the CDs and send them out, but they couldn't get these songs on radio playlists outside of California)

Tha Realest got a push from Suge too -- Realest was featured on 6 tracks on "The Chronic 2000", which that album sold 5 times TGFR & Dysfunktional Family OST

Danny Boy talked about how Suge would blackball his artists by telling them how great the albums were, how he loved the material, and he would tell them "it's coming soon" and it would never drop -- he would just string along his artists -- Many believe this is what happened to Crooked I -- Danny Boy pointed out that he may have been jealous that he recorded with Irv Gotti and Irv offered him more than what Suge could offer him, and Suge took offense to that (remember Crook was offered deals by Aftermath and Bad Boy at the time) -- the album had a release date set and after it was delayed, then it was supposed to be "Hood Star", then it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, and Crooked said, he was pissed his album didn't drop over and over again, and the same shit happened to Tha Realest, he said he had 150 songs recorded, and he kept visiting Suge in prison 3 times a week, and he told him how great the material is and that the album is coming soon, and he never dropped the shit.
Danny Boy said he would trap the artists in longterm deals so they couldn't sign another deal and he wouldn't let them off, they would have to go through a long ride in the court system to have the ability to record elsewhere (i.e. Nate Dogg, Tha Realest) -- Danny Boy said Suge would string his artists along in a stalemate purgatory where they were locked in and completely lost their buzz with nothing coming out!

Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him

Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine -- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")

Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!

Funny you cited that interview because the very next question asks about an album

Quote
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?

YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.

DX:
What happened next? What progressed?

YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.

Top Dogg wasn't a "go-to" guy. You're having delusions of grandour if you think otherwise.

More falsehoods:

1) Crooked I never had a release date in stone, and the album that would have been released was "Say Hi To The Bad Guy", not "Hootstar"
2) Nate Dogg didn't have a long trip through the court systems. He actually won against Death Row and got the rights to his DR album, and was able to drop an album a year or so after leaving the label

1) Duh, I know it was "Say Hi To Tha Bad Guy" - If you read my post, they pushed it back and renamed it to "Hoodstar" after multiple delays -- Yes Crooked I had a release date of September 10, 2002, go look it up!
2) Nate Dogg had to do a shared publishing deal where if Suge wanted to release it he could -- Many of Suge's artists have been tied up for years in the court system -- even on the latest Death Row bankruptcy proceedings, Suge sued the new owners of Death Row for $146 million so none of the artists could get anything (smart move)
Go Listen to the Danny Boy Interviews and Educate yourself

Top Dogg:
YES, Top Dogg was the Top Dogg for the label -- he had an album called "Every Dogg has Its Day" -- This album title was posted on the WEBSITE and I have the album (and so do many other people) -- he said that because he's trying to promote his new work, and doesn't want people salivating over the Death Row classics, because he knows that's what his career will likely be known for (maybe he can prove me wrong?)

Now back to your claim -- Your totally wrong -- Suge put him on MULTIPLE TRACKS with Dr. Dre -- If you had NO PLANS for an artist, would you have him on multiple Dr. Dre tracks?! I mean there's a lot!  Some of them that leaked -- "the Hoe Hopper, Die MF Die, the Columbine One that's rare as f... just think for a second -- you're in charge of the record label -->  Put your business cap on, are you going to have your multi-million dollar producer's beats be put on some guy that you only have plans to be a scrub? Hell no, that would be a terrible investment -- He put him on Dre Beats to promote the shit out of him!  How many people can say they've been on Dr. Dre beats and on Death Row Records -- Top Dogg was ONE OF A VERY FEW SELECT GROUP -- Dre doesn't even have that much shit released post NWA!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 12:47:45 AM by love33 »
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2017, 12:50:18 AM »
lol this thread is pure comedy to think this delusional  moron thinks tha fakest and top none were stars is hilarious :laugh:


Are you not comprehending -- here let me give you a dunce cap --> IF you were running a business, would you put a multi-platinum legend producer's beats with an artist you wanted to blow up?! Of course you would -- Suge put Dre beats allover Top Dogg's music -- he's one in a million to even get that treatment

That's like winning the lottery, you come into the rap game, and you're barely known, then all of a sudden you're on Dr. Dre beats and allover a 2Pac single that's on MTV and BET and played in the clubs, then you got your own single in rotation!
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2017, 12:51:25 AM »

 

 

It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website. 


and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars
[/quote]

How many people do you know that have had videos in rotation on MTV and BET?? Count them on your toe!
 

love33

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Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2017, 01:25:10 AM »
Man you're off on YGD, -- The Top Dogg was the go to artist for Suge -- they spun "All About U" on MTV -- Yes, Suge wasn't literally "running around", but he was telling The Source, VIBE, and all the media outlets "I gotta guy called the Top Dogg" and was bragging about him. 
 
In what interviews?  Do you have a link?

Here's an interview with Top Dogg and them talking about the Major Spins he got on MTV and BET (I personally remember this)

The interviewer says he remembers seeing his videos.  Nothing about major spins.  I didn’t have BET back then but MTV sure as hell wasn’t playing those videos regularly.  Even the video in the link is from some obscure video network. 
Also, since you brought up the link, here’s a quote that contradicts your own statements.

"I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development."

These are the man's own words.  You said he was the big artist in 1998 but neither of those videos came out until, at least, 1999.  So I'll ask the question again - Why would he have been on MTV in 1998 for anything?

My whole point is that Irv Gotti got him more free exposure --> He was on a JA RULE album -- Ja was a house superstar (you know this, I don't have to say it) -- Ja Rule was the biggest rapper in the game for a time period before 50 Cent knocked him off -- Ja Rule, DMX, and Jay-Z were the New York Big 3 dropping platinum albums, so for Eastwood to get featured with a house artist like Ja Rule, and get a video with Ashanti who was HUGE at the time for R&B (she had her big feature track "Always On Time" and the track with Fat Joe "What's Luv") -- For Crook to be on the same tracks as these artists in their prime was a much bigger push than Suge could ever give him.

And my point is you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.  A feature on a superstar rapper’s album is nowhere near what you make it out to be.  Plenty of artists end up featuring on major artist’s albums, that doesn’t immediately make them stars, at best, that helps generate a buzz. 

Ja Rule did songs and videos with lots of artists.  Cadillac Tah was featured on “Ain’t It Funny”, an actual #1 hit record with an actual mainstream video with Ja Rule and Jennifer Lopez.  More exposure than Crooked I and during a stronger selling point in Ja’s career.  What happened?  Nothing.  People remember the song for Ja Rule and J-Lo like they remember D-12 songs for Eminem and don’t remember which Outlaw is featured on what Pac song.  It’s not a diss.  MC Ren is featured in all of the NWA tracks and videos but he’s not put out there like Cube is.  Crooked I was never “pushed” by Irv Gotti.  He did a few songs with Murder, Inc. and it was when Ja was on the way down.  Irv actually “pulled” Vita, Charlie Baltimore, Cadillac Tah, and Black Child on numerous projects.  They didn’t become stars and they were constantly linked to Ja in videos, albums, singles, etc.  One guest verse isn’t going to make you a star.  Quit believing your own nonsense.

Hutch tookover in 2000 -- But Top Dogg got the first big push, then Realest got the push on Chronic 2K, then Crook got a push (both with Suge radio tour & Murder Inc), and Eastwood was heavily featured on Crook's stuff (like Snoop was on Dre's) which was the plan for him
 

Nope.  Top Dogg never got a real push.  He and Realest were looked as the artists during Chronic 2000 but no real money or promotion was ever put into them.  Death Row put out an official home video full of music videos in 1999 and the only time either one of them is featured is in a low-budget porno video for Daz’s song that has Tha Realest in it.  They weren’t getting magazine covers or big interviews.  When Tha Realest got shot in the studio in 1999 during the shooting that killed Kurupt’s bodyguard, The Source called him “Realness”. 

And enough with this “heavy feature” talk.  Comparing Crook at that point to Dre is absurd.  Dre was a superstar producer by the time he got on and the pushing of Snoop was far more substantial.  They didn’t just give him a forty-second verse at the end of a video.  They put him on equal billing and had him trade bars with Dre on Deep Cover and G-Thang.  He was constantly put next to him.  The people you’re mentioning were more like Bushwick Bill.  One song on The Chronic. 

Hutch was working on the 2Pac project, I remember him talking about it interviews how it's such a privilege to get to go into the Vaults and some of the stuff he heard in it sent shivers down his spine. 

Yes, that project was “Until The End of Time”.  We already went over this before. 

 
-- That's right around the time where Afeni did her best to railroad him off the project -- Yeah, I remember her being pissed at Daz, but before Daz did that and sold Makaveli & Dillinger on the Internet, she was expecting him to have a heavy hand from Tha Row side of Unreleased 2Pac as part of the Suge-side of the project (right around that time they made public "Tha Vault")

And here is where you lose me.  Where did Afeni ever say any of this?

Also "Still I Rise" was promoted on the OFFICIAL Death Row Records website -- they had snippets posted up (I mean that's Tha Row's crew allover that album) -- I'm sure someone here can vouch for me on that!
 


Try to stay with me so this can hopefully, be the last time we go through this.  I didn’t say Death Row didn’t work on the album or list it on their website.  I said they took their name off the project.  It was intended as a Death Row/Amaru release but at some point, both labels removed their names from the project.  They both still include it as a release in their discography but they withdrew their logos and were not credited at the time of the release. 

It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website. 


Lots of stuff here -- First, an artists career being launched off a featured appearance has been common in hip hop throughout time -- that's how Snoop blew up off "Nuthin But A G Thang" and "Dre Day" -- Ask Young Buck, who got his break during a 50 Cent feature (After he was featured on "Get Rich or Die Tryin" everyone was like you gotta sign this cat!), too many examples to name -- but featuring on a superstars track is one of the biggest ways artists break in and get their name out there for recognition and label signing (you know this)

Let me ask you this -- this is totally your opinion, if you're running a business, and you have Dr. Dre instrumentals, extremely rare for anyone to even have them, and in his prime at that, would you put them on an artist who you thought was some bum?  Would you go give Dr. Dre's instrumentals to Spider Loc or CPO Boss Hog? Suge had HUGE plans for YGD Top Dogg, starting with his "Goin Back To Cali" diss record, aimed directly at Bad Boy, in the midst of an ugly beef!  Top Dogg was actually signed when Snoop was still contractually obligated to the label!  The only reason why people make the comparison is because he has the "Dogg" in his name and the timing of it all, coupled with the "Top Dogg Cindafella" vs. "Snoopafella" thing (and Snoop named his album after Suge's artist as a middle finger to say that he's the Top Dogg, not his artist) that went down during the No Limit beef -- Top Dogg said after all the bullshit, he actually met him and they were cool with each other while all this was going on!  Think about the time line ---> 1) Suge releases "Goin Back To Cali" to create the buzz -- 2) The Magazine mentions & interview mentions by Suge along with Interscope pushing him before they pulled the rug   3) The "All About U" feature played on MTV/BET  4) Top Dogg records a track called "Come My Way" for the 2Pac + Outlawz album that gets pulled   5) The Top Dogg Cindafella video and doubling up on Snoop beef putting it up against Snoop "Cindafella" to get the media to talk about it...the last event is to drop the album -- the exact SAME thing happened to Crooked I -- he did all the leg work up front, but pulled the rug out underneath the album (Crooked I had the released date even!)

If there's a way we can search "The Source" and "VIBE" archives, you bet there were mentions of Top Dogg by Suge's camp

Top Dogg -- SOURCE = https://www.revolvy.com/topic/YGD%20Tha%20Top%20Dogg&item_type=topic
"In 1998, Death Row Records CEO Suge Knight planned to launch many new rappers to come for the second generation of Death Row Records. Although he was incarcerated, he pushed rapper Top Dogg (also known as YGD) as his first new face making his television debut appearance in the video "All About U" on the 2Pac "Greatest Hits" album replacing Snoop Dogg. Top Dogg had generated a buzz from a hidden track on the "Gang Related" titled "Goin Back To Cali" aimed toward Biggie Smalls & Puff Daddy.[3] The video, "All About U," received heavy play and Suge followed in 1999 with Suge Knight Represents: Chronic 2000 album to introduce a brand new roster headed by Top Dogg, Tha Realest, and Soopafly, with Daz Dillinger as the veteran lead-producer.

In 2000, the music video for Top Dogg's "Cindafella"[4] track received minor airplay with an innovative concept produced by TC as many earlier videos and directed by K.C. Amos, and his album "Every Dog Has His Day"[5] was shelved as his contract expired and he was not renewed."


Here's one of the tracklists for Top Dogg's album "Every Dogg Has Its Day":
01 Intro
02 Ghetto Fairytales
03 Envy
04 Cant Fuck With Dogg
05 Me and My Boyz
06 Going Back To Cali (Notorious BIG Diss)
07 If U Can´t Take The Heat Ft. Eastwood
08 Cindafella
09 B Thankful
10 I Gets No Sleep
11 Cry 4 Me Die 4 U
12 We Don't Love 'Em
13 Death Row Raw & Uncut Ft. Eastwood


Still I Rise -- Here is the info on the Lawsuit filed by The Outlawz:  The Outlawz have filed a lawsuit against Death Row, heres the story from CDNOW.com:

"The rap group the Outlawz, best known for their work with the late Tupac Shakur, have filed a $4.5 million lawsuit against Death Row Records, the label's incarcerated chief Marion "Suge" Knight, its distributor Interscope Records, Suge Knight Films, and Suge Publishing. The suit, filed Tuesday (April 4) in Los Angeles Superior Court, cites 11 complaints, including breach of contract, unfair business practices, intentional interference with prospective economic advantages, racketeering, and others. The Outlawz, which signed with Death Row in March 1997 and delivered their first master recordings in January 1998, claim that, "Death Row refused to release said master recordings in retaliation for the Outlawz' refusal to enter into a separate agreement granting to Suge Publishing a publishing interest in the compositions contained in the masters delivered to Death Row."
In July 1998, the group claims that because the label didn't release the recording or give them notice of extending the term of their recording contract that their contract expired on approximately May 6, 1999. The label then released 2Pac + Outlawz' Still I Rise Dec. 21, 1999, while the Outlawz maintain that they were no longer signed to the label. The album debuted at No. 7 on The Billboard 200.
"Beginning prior to the release of Still I Rise and continuing to the present," reads the suit, in part, "Death Row and Knight have falsely asserted to third parties, including representatives of Interscope, that the Outlawz remain obligated under the Recording Agreement; and Death Row and Knight have otherwise interfered with a) the Outlawz' career in the entertainment industry and the value of their trademark, b) the marketing and exploitation of the Still I Rise record, and c) the agreement between the Outlawz and the Estate of Tupac Shakur and Interscope."
The group, which began writing songs with Shakur in 1994 until the rapper's death in 1996, claims that Death Row and Knight had instructed Interscope not to include the Outlawz (formerly known as Dramacydal and Outlaw Immortalz) in any promotion for the album, including videos, radio promotion, street marketing, and press; and that they included their performance in the video Death Row Uncut for Knight Films without any license, authorization, or compensation.
Attorneys for the group sent a cease and desist letter to Death Row and Interscope on Feb. 23 of this year asking them to stop asserting that the group is still signed to the label; to cease interfering with the marketing of Still I Rise; to cease selling the Death Row Uncut video unless the appropriate licenses and releases are issued; and to give the group an accounting of their work with Shakur on the 1997's Gang Related and 1996's Supercop soundtracks, and the aforementioned video, released in 1999.
The Outlawz are credited on Gang Related for three tracks with 2Pac ("Staring Through My Rearview," "Made Niggaz," and "Lost Souls") and one with Daz Dillinger ("What's Ya Fantasy?"). They're credited on Supercop again for "Made Niggaz" with 2Pac.
The full complaint is for unfair business practices, violation of the Lanham Act, intentional interference with prospective economic advantage, violation of civil code 3344, quantum meruit, unjust enrichment/implied contract, negligence, declaratory relief, accounting, breach of contract, and violations the Federal RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization) Statute."

 

2Relevant

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2017, 06:26:24 AM »

 

 

It became a big-selling album because it was Tupac, not because Death Row advertised it on their website. 


and we all know the ONLY reason top none got any exposure was the 2PAC song and video all about you i don't know what parallel world this guy lives in but in our world top and fakest were never going to be stars

How many people do you know that have had videos in rotation on MTV and BET?? Count them on your toe!
[/quote]

again the only reason all about u had radio and video play on mtv and bet was because it was a pac track biter on it or not

those 2 wannabes were always under "developmental"  till they left suge was never going to do anything with those bootleg artist and the people wouldn't ever accept these clones after how much backlash and disappointing numbers c2k did those clones never got a push
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2017, 06:53:19 AM »
1) Duh, I know it was "Say Hi To Tha Bad Guy" - If you read my post, they pushed it back and renamed it to "Hoodstar" after multiple delays -- Yes Crooked I had a release date of September 10, 2002, go look it up!
2) Nate Dogg had to do a shared publishing deal where if Suge wanted to release it he could -- Many of Suge's artists have been tied up for years in the court system -- even on the latest Death Row bankruptcy proceedings, Suge sued the new owners of Death Row for $146 million so none of the artists could get anything (smart move)
Go Listen to the Danny Boy Interviews and Educate yourself

Top Dogg:
YES, Top Dogg was the Top Dogg for the label -- he had an album called "Every Dogg has Its Day" -- This album title was posted on the WEBSITE and I have the album (and so do many other people) -- he said that because he's trying to promote his new work, and doesn't want people salivating over the Death Row classics, because he knows that's what his career will likely be known for (maybe he can prove me wrong?)

Now back to your claim -- Your totally wrong -- Suge put him on MULTIPLE TRACKS with Dr. Dre -- If you had NO PLANS for an artist, would you have him on multiple Dr. Dre tracks?! I mean there's a lot!  Some of them that leaked -- "the Hoe Hopper, Die MF Die, the Columbine One that's rare as f... just think for a second -- you're in charge of the record label -->  Put your business cap on, are you going to have your multi-million dollar producer's beats be put on some guy that you only have plans to be a scrub? Hell no, that would be a terrible investment -- He put him on Dre Beats to promote the shit out of him!  How many people can say they've been on Dr. Dre beats and on Death Row Records -- Top Dogg was ONE OF A VERY FEW SELECT GROUP -- Dre doesn't even have that much shit released post NWA!

Since reading seems to be a little difficult for you, let me repost what Top Dogg specifically said about an album on Death Row from the interview you keep bringing up.
Quote
DX: You were, if I’m not mistaken, the last Death Row artist to have his own video, of the new guys. Years later, you have Renegade out. But on the real, how close did you ever get to releasing an album at Death Row?

YGD Top Dogg: Actually, we never really got to an album. I’m so grateful and thankful for that, ’cause I’m able to [release] my own album [now]. I did a lot of singles over there at Death Row, but I never had an album that I was actually working on. I was just workin’ on songs. I was still just an artist in development. I just blessed to be on songs so big that motherfuckas still play ’em on the radio, and still remember ’em.

DX: What happened next? What progressed?

YGD Top Dogg: I was ready, but I wasn’t developed. I’d just been rappin’ for a year or two, and I was on a [very well-known] label. We made it. [Laughs] I just took that and ran with it. I just stuck to the script, man, and my name motivated me. I know it sounds weird, but “Top Dogg” was powerful in some ways.

The album you're referring to was a Demo of tracks, not an album.
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Tha Realest -- Special Kind of Mother
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2017, 05:01:11 PM »
Lots of stuff here -- First, an artists career being launched off a featured appearance has been common in hip hop throughout time -- that's how Snoop blew up off "Nuthin But A G Thang" and "Dre Day" -- Ask Young Buck, who got his break during a 50 Cent feature (After he was featured on "Get Rich or Die Tryin" everyone was like you gotta sign this cat!), too many examples to name -- but featuring on a superstars track is one of the biggest ways artists break in and get their name out there for recognition and label signing (you know this)
   

Your deductions on how Snoop and Young Buck got there are missing a lot of factors that go way beyond just their featured appearances. 

Snoop was not simply a guest artist on a song, he was a featured artist on an album that was built to feature him.  There is a clear distinction in how he was promoted from the very beginning.   He was in the video for Deep Cover.  He is on the intro for The Chronic.  He’s on nearly all the big songs.  He’s on songs that don’t even have Dre on them. The video for “G Thang” is Dre going up to his house and walking into his room, introducing him as his partner.  He is standing next to him through out the video.  Once they broke through the first layer of the story which was Dre leaving Ruthless for his own solo career, they made the second layer about Snoop so he could be part of the brand and they could build him off Dre’s momentum.  He was on stage with Dre for nearly every public appearance.  He was next to him on the magazine covers.  That is an effective marketing campaign on how to break a new artist.

Now, for Young Buck.  He had that one guest verse on Get Rich.  That didn’t launch him.  That got him some buzz.  The buzz lead to him being signed.  His first project with the label was the G-Unit group album.  This was put out off the strength of how hot 50 was.  50’s momentum sold the album.  Buck was on about a good dozen songs and featured in all the videos.  He toured with 50, he did media appearances with 50, he was on magazine covers next to 50, his name became associated with the G-Unit brand, they put him on mixtapes and gave him his own mixtapes. 

With both Snoop and Buck, the initial momentum of their association was still utilized when they took the training wheels off.  Dr. Dre and 50 Cent are both respectively featured all over their first videos so the consumer can feel the association.  This is calculated.  This is how building a brand works.

Now, we’ll go to Top Dogg.  His first song for the label isn’t even included on most releases.  It isn’t pushed.  He’s not on any of the new artist solo releases after that.  His video debut comes at the tail end of a Tupac video that comes out much later.  Since Tupac is dead, they never share any screen time, and good portions of his forty-second verse are dedicated to showing shots of Tupac instead.  It’s him alone in a car, rapping.  The actors at the beginning of the video get more uninterrupted screen time.  This is very clearly not a video about Top Dogg or well-marketed introduction to him as an artist. 

And your Interscope push talk is bullshit too. They were ending their deal with Death Row.  You have yet to present any evidence of this push beyond your own confused concept of what you think a push is.  Priority was going to distribute the catalog. 

Let me ask you this -- this is totally your opinion, if you're running a business, and you have Dr. Dre instrumentals, extremely rare for anyone to even have them, and in his prime at that, would you put them on an artist who you thought was some bum?   

This is clearly you presenting a “Strawman argument”.  I never said Suge thought Top Dogg was a bum.  I said neither Interscope nor Death Row was pushing him as heavily as you claim.  But, regardless, if generally speaking, I own a label and have a brand new roster of artists that haven’t been established, I would look into finding ways to utilize the aspects that people love (in this case, the old artists) and use them to sell the unfamiliar.  And it wasn’t just Top Dogg.  They were planning to put Realest and Doobie on songs with Dre too. They put Swoop G on a song with Snoop.  They put Crooked, SKG, and The Relativez on songs with Dogg Pound.  They added J. Valentine to 2Pac’s song on TG4R.