Author Topic: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?  (Read 1253 times)

Shallow

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 12:14:50 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


And what's a 2000s Belicheck team with Peyton look like. Or the current Pat with Rodgers?

Of course I'm not joking with my rigged theories. I all but stopped watching Sports after two years ago. They don't loOK real anymore. And as I look back it was fishy back then.

Remember pro wrestling NWA was real once. Then George Hackenshmidt and Frank Gotch figured out they could make more money on best two out of three feuds. Soon promoters saw the fans were getting bored and started spicing up matches with over the top stuff. Coming back from 25 points in a Super bowl is like seeing a Power bomb in the Olympics  wrestling final.
 

Sccit

Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2017, 12:22:48 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon.  It's about what they can do with a basketball.  I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario.  Just my opinion.

But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.

Kill yaself

Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.

Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up


I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.

Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.

But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team.  Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team.  I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.

The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.

LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him




Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.

I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.

Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 12:25:34 PM by Sccit »
 

M Dogg™

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2017, 12:56:14 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon.  It's about what they can do with a basketball.  I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario.  Just my opinion.

But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.

Kill yaself

Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.

Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up


I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.

Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.

But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team.  Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team.  I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.

The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.

LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him




Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.

I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.

Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.

2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!

I SAID IT!
 

Sccit

Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2017, 01:59:53 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon.  It's about what they can do with a basketball.  I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario.  Just my opinion.

But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.

Kill yaself

Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.

Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up


I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.

Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.

But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team.  Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team.  I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.

The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.

LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him




Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.

I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.

Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.

2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!

I SAID IT!

Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!
 

DeeezNuuuts83

Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2017, 06:32:00 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team.  The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State).  We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down.  But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago.  To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy.  So many different pieces on the table.  If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.

All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies.  You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.
 

M Dogg™

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2017, 08:09:17 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon.  It's about what they can do with a basketball.  I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario.  Just my opinion.

But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.

Kill yaself

Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.

Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up


I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.

Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.

But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team.  Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team.  I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.

The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.

LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him




Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.

I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.

Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.

2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!

I SAID IT!

Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!

I'm not trolling. I'll get back to the point. My rational to this is that I think of Kobe as a more athletic MJ with longer range and a worst shot selection. So using Kobe vs. LeBron, you see how LeBron would fair against Jordan, you notice Kobe's production goes down. He put a lot of energy trying to stop LeBron and so you have to assume that MJ would also see his offense suffer trying to stop LeBron. It's not even about skill, it's about LeBron being so big, so strong, so fast, so explosive, that MJ would struggle. Just the size of LeBron would wear MJ down.
 

M Dogg™

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2017, 08:22:40 PM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team.  The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State).  We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down.  But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago.  To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy.  So many different pieces on the table.  If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.

All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies.  You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.

My hypothetical 10-6 record was a conservative record. I was going to say 12-4, based off the 3-1 record but that it couldn't have been that many wins minus Brady.

Also, Matt Cassel went 10-5 as the back up QB in the 2008. He used that year to get a starting job outside New England. He was so good he went 4-11 the next year. He finished with a total starting record of 26-39 when not in New England. Cassel showed that the Belichick system makes the QB look way, way better. I would say Jimmy G. is a way better QB than Cassel. But with that said, Brady does benefit from a great system and great pieces around him.

In terms of other teams, the Packers do have a crap team. Rogers is basically the team. They go as far as he can take them while carry the team on his back. The Raiders on the other hand have a great offense, but their backup situation is horrible as McGloin is only good enough to be a backup and Cook wasn't ready to see the field this year. So both teams to have worse backups. But with that said, Hundley and McGloin would both look way better under the Patriot system than their current systems.
 

Shallow

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2017, 05:31:03 AM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.
Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.
But your hypotheticals are based more on the disparity between the starting QBs (all very good and very talented) and their backups (all of varying talent and experience) and not so much on the rest of the team.  The Packers would be absolute crap with Brett Hundley taking all of the snaps... and I'm a big Hundley fan too and watched him closely while he was at UCLA (and still regret not going to the Alamo Bowl where he led them to beat Kansas State).  We saw what happened to the Raiders when Carr went down.  But the same thing can happen with Brady, and it can very much be similarly ugly, but you're erroneously believing that the Patriots TODAY are a 10-6 team without him because they actually did that in 2008... which at this point is close to a decade ago.  To gauge the capability of a Bradyless 2016-2017 Patriots on a Bradyless 2008-2009 Patriots is crazy.  So many different pieces on the table.  If the Patriots of today could go 10-6 without Brady, it's because their backup QB has the goods.

All of the teams in discussion are great, but you're acting like the offenses of the Packers and the Raiders are great QBs who have to work with five scarecrows dressed up like linemen and masking their deficiencies.  You're acting like the Patriots' other ten guys on offense and eleven guys on defense at all times are head and shoulders above every other team's lineups.

They were 3-0 with Jimmy and with no Gronk they looked as good or better than they did with Brady when there was no Gronk.

Do I think they win it all with Jimmy? I don't know. But I think it's mostly fixed anyway.

 

Sccit

Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 09:55:10 AM »
3-1 without Brady is good but it doesn't indicate that they would have been nearly as successful without him. Look at who they played and what the scores were. Yeah they blew out of the Texans, but they got shut out by the BILLS, and the other two were one-score games. Not a strong argument.

Doesn't matter. If the Packers didn't have Aaron Rogers, they are about a 4-12 team. The Raiders without Derek Carr is a 6-10 team. They don't win without their QB. What Brady does is take a solid 10-6 team that makes the playoffs and makes them a 14-2 team that wins the Super Bowl. He is a great player, but he has a great team to work with. Belichick knows he can't win without him, but at the same time they'd still be in the playoffs every year with Jimmy G. running the team.


But we're not talking about a wrestling match or a triathlon.  It's about what they can do with a basketball.  I've never viewed Lebron as having a killer instinct like Jordan, and I don't see him winning in a one-on-one scenario.  Just my opinion.

But if LeBron played Michael one on one in both primes, I'm putting my money on LeBron.

Kill yaself

Look at it, LeBron is more physically superior than Jordan in every single way possible. Argue that. He's 3 inches taller, 35 pounds heavier, all muscle, more athletic, and even plays better defense! I said it.

Homie are u retarded? Lol .. Straight up


I hate to even entertain this, but Lebron is a pass first player. Offense is unquestionably the worst aspect of his game. Melo would destroy him in a 1 on 1, let alone Michael Jordan. SMFH.

Greater player and Better player are two WAY different things. LeBron is a better player than Jordan. Period, end of story. He's bigger, fast, stronger, he's a better team player. Pass first, one on one, that doesn't matter. If you take the physical presents that is LeBron, drop him into the 90's, he'd be the most dominating force there outside of Shaq. Jordan was a great, great player. He had killer instinct LeBron doesn't have. But, all things equal, you put them prime vs. prime, LeBron wins. Look at LeBron the last 2 years, he's proven how good he is, how much of a fighter he is and how far he can go to carry a team to victory. Modern players today are just better than older players, and it happens every generation.

But back to the topic at hand -- as soon as I made the previous post, I even forgot what thread I was in -- one thing I give to Brady is that while he has a supporting cast, he really does seem to carry the team.  Other all-time great quarterbacks like Joe Montana and Troy Aikman also had other hall-of-famer type players on their team.  I don't feel like Brady's supporting cast was on that level.

The problem with that argument is the Pats back ups were 3-1 when Brady was out, and in 2008 when Brady missed the whole year, MATT FRECKIN' CASSELL was 10-6. The system is greater than the player, even Tom Brady. Brady is just the one Belichick trust the most running his system.

LMFAO this guy .. LeHelp is terrible from a skill standpoint. Terrible footwork, unreliable jumpshot, no post game, etc. In what way is he better? Because he's stronger and needs 3 franchise players to compete? We're talking about a guy who is a couple miracles away from being 1/7 in the finals right now.. And even 3/7 with those miracles, he is not nearly the player he is made out to be. You are one of those guys who just eats up whatever the media tells him




Travels and bricks a wide open layup for the game winner .. Can u ever imagine Kobe or Jordan doin this? Forget killer instinct, he lacks skill like a muthafucka and it's pretty sad how the media dickriding him got u flip floppin with your opinions.

I've never flipped flopped on LeBron. I've always said he's the most physically dominating player I've ever seen, but he lacks that one thing that puts him up with Jordan, Kobe and Magic. But as a pure, physical player, he's better than all 3 of them. His size and skill made one on one match ups for Kobe a nightmare. Kobe's production against LeBron dropped against LeBron. Kobe only averaged 25ppg, 5rpg, 5.5apg, and fg% dropped to 41%. Now LeBron also saw a drop in fg%, as it dropped to 46%, as he is above a 50% shooter, but averaged more than his career average in points at 28.5ppg. LeBron also had a 15-6 record against Kobe, though a lot had to do with bad Kobe teams for a while, as during Kobe's career only 4 years was Kobe in a title competitive team. So I personally don't look at the head to head record as it's a team game. What I do look at is the drop in Kobe's production as he puts so much into stopping and slowing down LeBron. Kobe always wanted to guard LeBron, and part of why he wanted MWP was so he can concentrate more on offense against teams with SF's like LeBron, 'Melo, Pierce.

Size, yes .. Physically imposing, yes .. Athleticism, yes .. But his skill is terrible. Only an idiot wouldn't recognize this. When both players were in their prime and had contending teams from 08-10, Lebron was too busy choking to the Celtics to face off with Kobe in the finals, where he woulda been slaughtered.. Kobe and MJ would COOK him in a 1 on 1 scenario. Even Cham would agree wit this, and Cham loves Lebron more than he loves his mom. You're just a horrible judge of talent homie. I've seen u say some crazy things in the past, but this is just deplorable.

2015-2016 LeBron>1997-1998 Jordan!

I SAID IT!

Can't tell if u trollin at this point, but not even as good as wizards Jordan .. 2015 he shot under 40% in the finals, 2016 he was terrible until Draymond got suspended game 5 and then Kyrie was the go to guy down the stretch .. Imagine Pippen being the go to guy on an MJ team. LOL!

I'm not trolling. I'll get back to the point. My rational to this is that I think of Kobe as a more athletic MJ with longer range and a worst shot selection. So using Kobe vs. LeBron, you see how LeBron would fair against Jordan, you notice Kobe's production goes down. He put a lot of energy trying to stop LeBron and so you have to assume that MJ would also see his offense suffer trying to stop LeBron. It's not even about skill, it's about LeBron being so big, so strong, so fast, so explosive, that MJ would struggle. Just the size of LeBron would wear MJ down.


Mental gymnastics .. Lebron is not a good one on one player, period. He thrives off other players, which is why he's a pass first. U need to check yaself brodie.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 10:08:57 AM by Sccit »
 

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Re: TOM BRADY THE GOAT?
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2017, 05:21:00 PM »
Fuck Nah Bruh, Roethlisberger is the GOAT and he's coming to Miami Bruh.