Author Topic: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)  (Read 4672 times)

kuruptDPG

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2017, 01:11:47 PM »
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2017, 01:46:06 PM »
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

Because Daz was in the studio bored and decided to build a time machine, travel back to 1999, and sit in studio sessions. He saw Doobie make a Daz joke, got heated, and decided to best way to get back at him was to use the same beat and song title in 2007, nearly a decade later.
 

bouli77

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2017, 02:45:21 PM »
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

purely coincidental and also goes to show how uninspired rappers are, always coming up with the same words to create rhymes

the original goes "Just my luck, you'll get caught up in the rain". he just changed the last word, and Doobie version did too. Nothing mindblowing.


In the same light, N2Deep and C-Note (of Botany Boyz) both recorded a song called "Making Cash Forever" interpolating Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever. I doubt they were aware of each other's version at the time.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/cgVrLimwHVs" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/cgVrLimwHVs</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ytqjPcf18Uw" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ytqjPcf18Uw</a>



 

Jay Wallace

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2017, 04:44:19 PM »
And seeing as "Gangsta Party" was put out by High Power Entertainment (not Daz's Gangsta Advisory) and was entirely produced by John Silva, I'm guessing this was just a bunch of studio sessions paid for by Silva to make a one-time album.  If this was a track taken by Daz from his days at Death Row, he probably would have released it years prior like he did with "R.A.W." and "Dillinger & Young Gotti".
 

love33

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2017, 10:32:37 PM »
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2017, 08:42:54 AM »
It's purely a coincidence as has been pointed out several times already in this thread. Daz's version was recorded in 2006-2007.
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2017, 06:23:10 PM »
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

 

dj coma

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2017, 07:23:14 PM »
You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there. Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

Spot on, especially the 2nd paragraph. Kobane produced the Doobie version also, not Daz.
 

love33

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2017, 12:37:06 AM »
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

There's no assumption here --
FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track
FACT: Daz stole multiple albums and tracks -- "RAW" was all Suge's music -- This was no different, it was a lead single on his solo album
OPINION: Yeah, the Daz version is way better! Of course I agree with that -- He took the track and made it better! Jagged Edge sounds clutch on his beat and he flows better than Doobie!

FACT: Death Row has a long and large history of this stuff:
FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds

2Pac "Toss It Up" <---> Dr. Dre "No Diggity"
Snoop Doggy Dogg "Snoopafella" <------> Top Dogg "Cindafella"
Young Doobie "I'm Country"  <---->  Chocolate Bandit "I'm Country"
Tha Dogg Pound "What We Go Through" ft. Warren G, & Bad Azz <----> Warren G ft. Bad Azz & Perfec
Tha Dogg Pound "I Luv" ft. Scarface & Too Short <-----> Scarface "I Luv" ft. Too Short, Daz, & Trick Daddy

OPINION:  You don't see Drake, YFN Lucci, Migos, etc. having to re-release or re-record or "tweak the beat" or whatever you want to call it's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did


In a LONG LONG Line, just to name a few
 

Quadruple OG

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2017, 06:59:44 AM »
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

There's no assumption here --
FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track
FACT: Daz stole multiple albums and tracks -- "RAW" was all Suge's music -- This was no different, it was a lead single on his solo album
OPINION: Yeah, the Daz version is way better! Of course I agree with that -- He took the track and made it better! Jagged Edge sounds clutch on his beat and he flows better than Doobie!

FACT: Death Row has a long and large history of this stuff:
FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds

2Pac "Toss It Up" <---> Dr. Dre "No Diggity"
Snoop Doggy Dogg "Snoopafella" <------> Top Dogg "Cindafella"
Young Doobie "I'm Country"  <---->  Chocolate Bandit "I'm Country"
Tha Dogg Pound "What We Go Through" ft. Warren G, & Bad Azz <----> Warren G ft. Bad Azz & Perfec
Tha Dogg Pound "I Luv" ft. Scarface & Too Short <-----> Scarface "I Luv" ft. Too Short, Daz, & Trick Daddy

OPINION:  You don't see Drake, YFN Lucci, Migos, etc. having to re-release or re-record or "tweak the beat" or whatever you want to call it's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did


In a LONG LONG Line, just to name a few

Post is 100% assumption and 100% fiction. The song was recorded by Daz around 2006-2007 and has nothing to do with the Doobie one (other than using the same sample) despite you trying to connect the dots.

As for the songs you mentioned, "Snoopafella" was recorded on No Limit before Top Dogg recorded "Top Dogg Cindafella". Tha Dogg Pound wasn't cleared by Death Row to appear on "What We Go Through", hence they were removed from the track and the alternate version was released on Warren G's album.
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2017, 03:44:34 PM »
Okay, yet another time…

FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track

This is your textbook move here.  You make a small portion of a correct statement and then pile on incorrect or unproven information to it so let’s go ahead and break this down.

“Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records.”

The only part of this statement that is actually a FACT.

“when Doobie recorded that track.”

This is ASSUMPTION.  Firstly, how do you know what date this track was recorded?  We know Daz and Doobie were on the label at the same time but to say that this track was recorded before he left is assuming.  We don’t know the exact date that Daz officially left.  We also don’t know how active he was at the studio during the time leading up to his departure. 

“Daz had visibility to that track.”

Firstly, that is terribly grammar.  I don’t know what you mean by “having visibility”.  I assume you mean he had access to the music but that isn’t the same. 

Secondly, we don’t know if Daz had access to the track.  Once again, you are assuming.  He could very well have never heard it.  The fact that he was head producer does not mean he listened to every studio recording that came out of there.  The last year and change that Dr. Dre was head producer at Death Row, he hardly ever went to Can-Am and worked out of his studio at home.  He didn’t have working relationships with all the producers or artists.   

This practice continued after he left.  Many people who worked on Makaveli explained how there were several studios.  One that Pac’s guys worked out of.  One that Snoop’s crew used.  And yet another where they had unknown producers trying to work with different R&B guys. 

“Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track.”

Assumption.  Have any of the other versions been released or leaked? 

FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds.

These aren’t almost identical sounds, any more than Cormega’s “Beautiful Mind” is almost identical to Beanie Siegel’s “Still Got Love For You”.  The similarity is they are both replaying the same sample. You have extremely poor ears for music if you can’t tell the difference. 
Same samples.





Look at that same sample and same song title.  And Snoop worked with Suga Free.  Snoop must have made his own version then stole it and gave it to Teddy Riley.  What do you think?

Here’s another one…





Wait a second!  Dre was the “head producer” at Aftermath so I bet he produced his own version of “Stan” then when Eminem didn’t use it, he held on to it and sold it to Snoop, years later.  Fan fiction is fun, huh? 


It's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did.
 

Why the fuck would you call it a remix if it’s a brand new song?  Is Pac’s “Rather Be Ya NIGGA” a remix of “I’d Rather Fuck You” since his label mate at the time, Dre already sampled it for that song?  Is Jay-Z’s “Ignorant Shit” a remix of “Big Poppa” because they worked together on music? 
 

love33

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2017, 11:14:49 PM »
Quote
The only part of this statement that is actually a FACT.

“when Doobie recorded that track.”

This is ASSUMPTION.  Firstly, how do you know what date this track was recorded?  We know Daz and Doobie were on the label at the same time but to say that this track was recorded before he left is assuming.  We don’t know the exact date that Daz officially left.  We also don’t know how active he was at the studio during the time leading up to his departure. 

“Daz had visibility to that track.”

Firstly, that is terribly grammar.  I don’t know what you mean by “having visibility”.  I assume you mean he had access to the music but that isn’t the same. 

Secondly, we don’t know if Daz had access to the track. 

Daz was the second in charge after Suge  (Suge was the CEO/Owner and Daz was the General Manager) -- Daz's responsibility is to know EVERY single track that floats through that studio -- that's his JOB -- otherwise, what or WHO are they recording for? That's a Cop Out to say he didn't know (if he really didn't, then he was a terrible lead executive producer)

That's like a head football coach saying he didn't know what his guys were doing in practice -- especially since Suge was cutting them checks for recording the material, whether or not it was decided to get released -- Danny Boy said they knew everything that was going on in there -- Doobie was on there, and he was under DAZ -- so unless Daz lost total control and he was negligent or Doobie hid stuff, it falls on him as the LEAD PRODUCER for Death Row

Next, we do know when Daz left, it was in 2000, there was an article talking about how he took his shit and walked out and said fuck this after they met -- and he got on the 5 and drove north to JT THE BIGGA FIGGA, where he taught him out to produce independent records -- this was all in magazines years ago -- Daz then released "RAW" because Death Row had it on their website, next to Top Dogg's "Every Dogg Has Its Day", and because of the soured relationship, it wouldn't be released in a timely manner -- he jacked the album (I personally thought it was his best album by far)

Yes, you've made some great points on how some artists sample the same tracks -- but it's a shit on their game when they do it -- once someone masters that sample, it's like you look like you're chasing from behind -- there's certain tracks that were sampled, and they were done correctly, so why go out there and trash someone else who did it correctly -- it's like when Dennis Rodman said the Bulls went 72-10 and won the championship, they were the first ones to do that shit! The Warriors couldn't duplicate it, they tried, but they fell short -- it's the same concept that Rodman was pointing out -- why go against the people who are original in the Hip Hop industry for some flakes that come up with sour versions?
i.e. When Luniz made "5 on it" and R Kelly & Diddy made "Satisfy You" -- when everyone heard that track, they were thinking of Tha Luniz!

You have some great information, I'm not a hater -- I just see it a little different in that I don't really think it's "creative" to hear someone use a sample, and how well they do it -- then, ride that sample almost in the same manner, to come up with a twin track!
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2017, 03:36:48 PM »
Daz was the second in charge after Suge  (Suge was the CEO/Owner and Daz was the General Manager) -- Daz's responsibility is to know EVERY single track that floats through that studio -- that's his JOB -- otherwise, what or WHO are they recording for? That's a Cop Out to say he didn't know (if he really didn't, then he was a terrible lead executive producer)

Daz was never a “general manager” or anything of that nature on Death Row.  When Suge got locked down, it’s common knowledge that Reggie Wright, Jr. and Mich’elle were both running the day to day operations with several other of Suge’s cronies.  Daz may have been “head of production” or “lead producer” but that doesn’t make him second-in-command.  Dre was second, not because he was lead producer but because he was co-owner of the company. 

It is presumptive thinking on your part to believe you know the responsibilities of the production team on a company like that.  It is also extremely unlikely that Daz who was producing albums and projects of his own as well as acting as a recording artist, was sitting down to listen to the hundreds of songs being recorded and put together at the label.  It just doesn’t work that way.  He was probably listening to the songs that were in consideration for albums but again, maybe, he wasn’t. 

It should also be noted that creatively, he didn’t appear to be the guy overseeing these projects either.  He was starting his own sub-label, “Dogg Pound Records” at that time under the Death Row umbrella, which would have been more his work.  Him and Big C-Style were over there.

That's like a head football coach saying he didn't know what his guys were doing in practice -- especially since Suge was cutting them checks for recording the material, whether or not it was decided to get released -- Danny Boy said they knew everything that was going on in there -- Doobie was on there, and he was under DAZ -- so unless Daz lost total control and he was negligent or Doobie hid stuff, it falls on him as the LEAD PRODUCER for Death Row.
 

Your football coach analogy would be a bit off.  The coach knows what the guys are doing in practice because he’s there.  The same way, Daz would know what songs were being produced if he was sitting in on the studio sessions but generally, if you are in a high position at a company that is doing multiple projects and volume business, you can’t be everywhere and there’s not enough time in the day to catch up.  If you’re Vince McMahon and you’re writing and producing weekly wrestling programming, you’re not going to every city your talent performs on a nightly basis, you have agents who do it for you and keep you posted on the most important developments.  When Dre was lead producer, Death Row started off doing one or two albums a year in-house.  When things grew, he started working from his studio at home, the momentum shifted.  There was work that wasn’t reaching his ears. 

Next, we do know when Daz left, it was in 2000, there was an article talking about how he took his shit and walked out and said fuck this after they met -- and he got on the 5 and drove north to JT THE BIGGA FIGGA, where he taught him out to produce independent records.

“In 2000” is a vague answer.  There are 365 days in a year.  The specifics aren’t clear.  There was clearly a rift for some time. 

Yes, you've made some great points on how some artists sample the same tracks -- but it's a shit on their game when they do it -- once someone masters that sample, it's like you look like you're chasing from behind -- there's certain tracks that were sampled, and they were done correctly, so why go out there and trash someone else who did it correctly -- it's like when Dennis Rodman said the Bulls went 72-10 and won the championship, they were the first ones to do that shit! The Warriors couldn't duplicate it, they tried, but they fell short -- it's the same concept that Rodman was pointing out -- why go against the people who are original in the Hip Hop industry for some flakes that come up with sour versions?
 

Your opinion of sampling is irrelevant to the argument.  The discussion isn’t about whether sampling the same beat is good or not. 

i.e. When Luniz made "5 on it" and R Kelly & Diddy made "Satisfy You" -- when everyone heard that track, they were thinking of Tha Luniz!
 

That’s fine but how many of them when to great lengths to establish the Yukmouth/Biggie connection as a means to concoct an Internet rumor that Puffy actually took the reel from “Five On It” and tried to release it as his own song?  Once again, this isn’t a review of “who sampled it better”?  This is you saying, without providing any evidence, that Daz recorded his own version of a song at Death Row and then waited seven years to put it out. 
 

Okka

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2017, 09:39:52 AM »
This shit is gettin' ridiculous.
 

love33

Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 09:44:00 PM »
Quote
It should also be noted that creatively, he didn’t appear to be the guy overseeing these projects either.  He was starting his own sub-label, “Dogg Pound Records” at that time under the Death Row umbrella, which would have been more his work.  Him and Big C-Style were over there.
Then what was "Lead Producer" at Death Row Records if he wasn't working on Death Row Records?  MTV heralded him as the takeover for Dr. Dre, who knew every track going through that studio until his last few 5 months when he knew he was on his way out

Quote
When Dre was lead producer, Death Row started off doing one or two albums a year in-house.  When things grew, he started working from his studio at home, the momentum shifted.  There was work that wasn’t reaching his ears. 
This is true, which is why Dre was RAN OFF the label -- Pac said that he wasn't doing anything -- he was sitting at home while all the work was being done in the studio, and he was nowhere to be found!  Checkout the KMEL interview Pac did where he explains this in detail

Quote
“In 2000” is a vague answer.  There are 365 days in a year.  The specifics aren’t clear.  There was clearly a rift for some time. 
There were articles in The Source Magazine and VIBE about how Daz left the label and he told his story about saying he met with Suge in jail, and he broke away (nobody ever talks about the exact reason, was it money? why was this NOT on MTV when they covered Dre leaving?)  He talks about how he traveled up 'The 5' to NorCal where he met JT The BIGGA FIGGA (they ended up recording those albums together) -- then, he broke away and released RAW independently from Death Row (he stole this album)