Author Topic: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc  (Read 3414 times)

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 02:53:38 AM »
Scarface, Pac, & Treach's name were allover the promo material alongside Dre & Snoop before they pulled them off
Treach was on the radio promoting it talking about how he's going to be on The Chronic 2000, he was on Big Boy radio talking about how he's opening up the door for the brand new Row with all the new talent


Show me a link to any of these Treach interviews and then we'll talk.  Until then, I will remain skeptical. 

I'm not sure if they even have Big Boy 1999 Interviews available anywhere online -- Treach was actually super close to signing with Death Row in 99 but he eventually just laid low

This is one of the trailers for Chronic 2000:


This is Treach freestyling and talking about Death Row


This is a great interview with Treach talking about 2Pac: 

This is Rick Clifford, Death Row engineer until Chronic 2000, talking about how he believes Treach was working with Tha Realest on Chronic 2000, and that Treach and others used Realest and Top Dogg to finish songs:
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 03:02:37 PM »
Treach was actually super close to signing with Death Row in 99 but he eventually just laid low

Once again, this sounds like you speculating without facts to back it up. 

This is Treach freestyling and talking about Death Row


He mentions them in one line as part of a rap and it has nothing to do with promoting Chronic 2000 or any projects.  He basically says he was holding it down for the East with Naughty By Nature while Death Row was dominating.  If someone mentions how Ja Rule dominated the radio waves in 2001 during one of their freestyles, I donít qualify that as actively promoting Ja Ruleís current projects? Youíre reaching big time on that one.

This is a great interview with Treach talking about 2Pac: 

Youíre starting to veer off-topic now.  Itís a cool interview but it has nothing to do with the discussion.  Iím aware that Treach was one of Pacís closest friends in the industry but thatís a whole other topic.  Everything discussed here is from their early days when they were touring in 1991 and when they both went out for roles in Juice.

This is Rick Clifford, Death Row engineer until Chronic 2000, talking about how he believes Treach was working with Tha Realest on Chronic 2000, and that Treach and others used Realest and Top Dogg to finish songs:


He mentions Treach having him adlib like Pac.  Fun tidbit but we already know Treach was working with Death Row.  This is your usual bait-and-switch.  Obviously if Treach was on both Chronic 2000 and Too Gangsta For Radio, he was working with Death Row.  I asked you for evidence of him promoting Chronic 2000 on the radio. 
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 12:42:52 AM »
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 08:07:21 PM »
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --

I don't expect you to.  Just reading your interpretations of the interviews you posted suggests to me that an exaggerated version of an interview you remember from 18 years ago would probably be nothing like how you describe it anyway.  Your recollections of things seem to border on delusional. 

I think the Rick Clifford interview is actually one of the better descriptions of the downfall of Death Row.  He seems pretty knowledgeable on the issues that Death Row had during the "Chronic 2000" period.  From the interview he spotted and diagnosed all the problems that plagued that label in 1998-99 from trying to cash in on the "Chronic" name without Dre's involvement, focusing on rappers who were imitations of former artists, and firing up the new roster to diss the old one.  Clifford, who was actually there, is not speaking about how this was a fresh roster that got blackballed and was on the verge of being at the top of the rap game.  He's breaking it down in real terms.  Death Row weren't held back by the establishment.  They made the wrong moves. 
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2017, 10:54:49 PM »
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --

I don't expect you to.  Just reading your interpretations of the interviews you posted suggests to me that an exaggerated version of an interview you remember from 18 years ago would probably be nothing like how you describe it anyway.  Your recollections of things seem to border on delusional. 

I think the Rick Clifford interview is actually one of the better descriptions of the downfall of Death Row.  He seems pretty knowledgeable on the issues that Death Row had during the "Chronic 2000" period.  From the interview he spotted and diagnosed all the problems that plagued that label in 1998-99 from trying to cash in on the "Chronic" name without Dre's involvement, focusing on rappers who were imitations of former artists, and firing up the new roster to diss the old one.  Clifford, who was actually there, is not speaking about how this was a fresh roster that got blackballed and was on the verge of being at the top of the rap game.  He's breaking it down in real terms.  Death Row weren't held back by the establishment.  They made the wrong moves. 

Clifford says on there if Crooked dropped in 96, he would have blew up and been huge -- 96 is obviously when the label ran the whole rap game and had Interscope pushing them hard -- Crooked I also tweeted out just recently that Irv Gotti was doing a lot to try to help him behind the scenes that a lot of people didn't know about -- Danny Boy said Suge got pissed off because of this in another interview, but check the Crooked I Twitter and scroll back about a month and you'll see 3 Tweets on there of how Irv Gotti was doing a lot for his career to push him

The old o2 Death Row Fan Site had a story on there about Treach being in talks with the label, and the old forum admin Miles and Nate did a post about Treach -- he just got cold feet and backed out

Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2017, 11:05:29 AM »
Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!

I don't think it was necessarily a poor distribution deal.  The albums were available in all the major retail stores.  It wasn't a major label but they were capable of functioning without one.  I would also be inclined to disagree that the real money would have been in selling the music through the website. 

I think had the roster been built around Big Hutch as a producer and Crooked I as a flagship artist from jump, they might have had a better chance.  The introduction of Tupac/Snoop biters on Chronic 2k and dedicating so much time and energy into attacking the former Death Row artists on the Death Row Uncut video and subsequent Too Gangsta For Radio album really took the energy in the wrong direction.  Crooked I had the skills to be a great talent but his label burned a lot of bridges that could have helped him. 
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2017, 11:47:52 PM »
Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!

I don't think it was necessarily a poor distribution deal.  The albums were available in all the major retail stores.  It wasn't a major label but they were capable of functioning without one.  I would also be inclined to disagree that the real money would have been in selling the music through the website. 

I think had the roster been built around Big Hutch as a producer and Crooked I as a flagship artist from jump, they might have had a better chance.  The introduction of Tupac/Snoop biters on Chronic 2k and dedicating so much time and energy into attacking the former Death Row artists on the Death Row Uncut video and subsequent Too Gangsta For Radio album really took the energy in the wrong direction.  Crooked I had the skills to be a great talent but his label burned a lot of bridges that could have helped him. 

I don't think Top Dogg was a "biter" -- he just has the "Dogg" in his name and it makes it sound like he's saying he's the Top Dogg (and not Snoop) -- he was YGD before -- and if you called "Young Derek" or whatever nobody would make this comparison, but it was just the temperament that Tha Realest was out and everyone pointed at his promos being similar to Pac's and the tattoos, so I would make the argument that Tha Realest image being compared to Pac's image conveniently opened the door for criticism for Top Dogg (i.e. "There's the fake Pac & Snoop and he's even called top DOGG") -- The "Cindafella" tracks being a competitive pissing contest and along with Top Dogg being put on Dre beats ("Hoe Hopper", the Columbine Track, etc.) and Pac tracks ("All About U", "Hating U", etc.) -- it was just too easy to make this assertion and it was convenient that he was put on those cuts and coupled with Tha Realest existence -- but I think if you be objective, I don't believe he's a "Snoop biter" but it's easy to say that the door was open for that criticism based on where the label planted him (Dre & Snoop material, and his name)

The dissing here and there wouldn't have been a bad thing necessarily, but if it became the sole purpose, that was a sting to Death Row's new talent -- why not just put the best music out, not just diss tracks -- Death Row Uncut was a cool compilation I thought -- Dysfunktional Family could have been way better

I think fans like myself would've coughed up the 55 cents and just said "Fuck it, might as well pay the 55 cents and get a CDQ version of the tracks I like" versus going around the net and looking for them for hours and days (they were harder to find back then, and it was like searching for a needle in the haystack but people had them)

They sat on Crooked I -- I remember he had the "Did You Ever Think Remix" and "Niggaz Got Game" someone from his camp leaked and had a small internet buzz -- Danny Boy said when Crook released that mix tape (the one that had the Snoop disses and then the "Me Against The World [Nu Mixx Remix]" leaked that Suge was pissed behind the scenes and didn't want his artists to leak out a bunch of music), then he talked about how the Irv Gotti thing might've set Suge off to blackball Crooked and smile in his face (DB said this was a Signature Suge move, just put someone's career in stalemate while he keeps stringing them along telling them the albums are coming soon, but could also be DB just being biter about his own situation) -- apparently DB sas saying that mixtape, even though it had a bunch of Death Row mentions, was not blessed in its entirety by the label -- Suge would argue in any case that he doesn't like to kill an artists buzz, but at this time, the game was becoming so mixtape heavy that it looked bad that Death Row had really not released any mixtapes or any material
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2017, 01:57:13 PM »
I don't think Top Dogg was a "biter" -- he just has the "Dogg" in his name and it makes it sound like he's saying he's the Top Dogg (and not Snoop) -- he was YGD before -- and if you called "Young Derek" or whatever nobody would make this comparison, but it was just the temperament that Tha Realest was out and everyone pointed at his promos being similar to Pac's and the tattoos, so I would make the argument that Tha Realest image being compared to Pac's image conveniently opened the door for criticism for Top Dogg (i.e. "There's the fake Pac & Snoop and he's even called top DOGG") -- The "Cindafella" tracks being a competitive pissing contest and along with Top Dogg being put on Dre beats ("Hoe Hopper", the Columbine Track, etc.) and Pac tracks ("All About U", "Hating U", etc.) -- it was just too easy to make this assertion and it was convenient that he was put on those cuts and coupled with Tha Realest existence -- but I think if you be objective, I don't believe he's a "Snoop biter" but it's easy to say that the door was open for that criticism based on where the label planted him (Dre & Snoop material, and his name)

Death Row was clearly pushing him to bite Snoopís image and were presenting him in a way that promoted that. 

The dissing here and there wouldn't have been a bad thing necessarily, but if it became the sole purpose, that was a sting to Death Row's new talent -- why not just put the best music out, not just diss tracks.
 

I think it was bad for business.  It became what Death Row was about and it made them look bitter, out of touch, and exploitive to a lot of people.  It was particularly problematic in this instance because they were recruiting new artists to go at their own former talent.  It becomes a different ball game when you start trying to bring down artists that you helped build.  It was additionally problematic because the deaths of Pac and Biggie were still so fresh. 

It not only divided the fan bases but it kept a lot of people from working with the new Death Row.  In the past, people would fuck with them regardless of their beefs with Ruthless or Bad Boy because they had the hottest talent (Dre, Snoop, Pac) but once the label disbanded, there was no incentive for the younger West artists who had a buzz to go against Dre/Snoop to work with someone like Crooked I. Itís not even the Dre and Snoop features, itís DJ Quik, Nate Dogg, Xzibit, etc.

I think fans like myself would've coughed up the 55 cents and just said "Fuck it, might as well pay the 55 cents and get a CDQ version of the tracks I like" versus going around the net and looking for them for hours and days (they were harder to find back then, and it was like searching for a needle in the haystack but people had them)
 

But thatís not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 

Suge would argue in any case that he doesn't like to kill an artists buzz, but at this time, the game was becoming so mixtape heavy that it looked bad that Death Row had really not released any mixtapes or any material.
 

They released one mixtape on their website, the Crooked one, with ďStop SnitchinĒ set to R. Kellyís ďIgnitionĒ but at that point, they seemed behind the game in a lot of ways.  Mixtapes were definitely a good source of promo but the beefing put things in an awkward spot.  Theyíd aligned with Benzino and Murder Inc at a time when Shady/Aftermath/G-Unit were the top dogs on the mixtape scene.  Afeni had full control of Tupacís music at this point so people no longer had to go to Suge to get Pac material so he wasnít in a position to build the kind of partnerships in the industry that he once had. 
 

Okka

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2017, 05:14:51 PM »
Does anybody know why Big Boy was talking shit about Dre on "Chronic 2000"? Did they have beef?
<a href="http://www.dubcnn.com/swf/mp3playerDub.swf?id=2008/december/bad_azz-as_long_as_i_can-(dubcnn).mp3&amp;artwork=badazz-player.jpg&amp;auto=1? quality=?high? pluginspage=?http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer? type=?application/x-shockwave-flash? width=?323? height=?180?" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.dubcnn.com/swf/mp3playerDub.swf?id=2008/december/bad_azz-as_long_as_i_can-(dubcnn).mp3&amp;artwork=badazz-player.jpg&amp;auto=1? quality=?high? pluginspage=?http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer? type=?application/x-shockwave-flash? width=?323? height=?180?</a>
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2017, 05:36:45 PM »
Does anybody know why Big Boy was talking shit about Dre on "Chronic 2000"? Did they have beef?
I've wondered that myself.  I don't think there was beef.  Him and Dre seem to have a very good relationship.
 

eyeball

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2017, 05:48:42 PM »
DR did rob Crook of a career as his talent as an MC in the 90s was off the chain as he had charisma, a great flow and could've been somebody. Instead they locked his ass in the vault and the modern Crook via Slaugterhouse (yes I spelled it correctly, at least according to the walking thesaurus tyrannosaurs talking) is simply all rapped out and lacks pretty much all of the talent/spark that made him so interesting during his DPG/DR days.

Also side splitting mirth at anyone who believes that "Realest finished Pac songs/overdubbed his vocals" crap because my homie we the last ones left shows you how much of a travesty this was when they attempted it and I ain't trying to be troublesome homie but even a tone def idiot can tell the handful of times they tried to use him as his voice has a totally different timbre and texture compared to the real thing and stands out a mile off.

I still look at that whole 2nd dynasty era wondering WTF Suge was smoking, like did he think he could just pull a bait and switch with the two biggest starts on his label and no one would notice a damn thing? Can you imagine how surreal it must have been for the old team/engineers/studio hands/label staff to see them two walking around like it ain't a thing?
 

2Relevant

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2017, 07:52:29 AM »
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 08:29:07 AM by Belt »
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2017, 11:56:16 PM »
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

Are you kidding? Treach is one of the Greatest Rappers of all time -- Naughty By Nature is a monster group that has a ton of hits, "OPP", "Written on ya Kitten", "Feels Good", "Feel Me Flow", "Mourn You Til I Join You" Pac Tribute -- You must be one of those kids who wasn't around then or didn't follow rap -- Naughty By Nature was everywhere, they were huge -- Kenny Lofton used "Feel Me Flow" as his music for the Cleveland Indians -- Eminem said Treach is one of the greatest rappers of all time -- I can't believe I'm reading this -- there's not too many lyrically that can go head to head with him -- Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 12:03:38 AM by love33 »
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2017, 12:10:52 AM »
Quote
But thatís not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)
 

2Relevant

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2017, 06:45:26 AM »
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D
 

2Relevant

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2017, 06:47:56 AM »
Quote
But thatís not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)

cause those "artist" were garbage
 

love33

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Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2017, 11:14:30 PM »
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D

Hey Dopey, If Eminem says he's one of the Top artists of all time, he's one of the best of all time period!
 

2Relevant

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2017, 06:47:04 AM »
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D

Hey Dopey, If Eminem says he's one of the Top artists of all time, he's one of the best of all time period!

again fuck Eminem
 

Jay Wallace

Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2017, 05:38:28 PM »
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)
  What Snoop album are you talking about?  Dead Man Walking?  They did put that out.