Author Topic: WHATS THE STORY BEHIND TOSS IT UP OG AND NO DIGGITY USING THE SAME BEAT?  (Read 1958 times)

bouli77


Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.

 

dnjp4life

In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'.  Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out.  Anyone know the deal with that?
 

dj coma


Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.

but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.

I wasn't saying it was impossible, I'm just saying that's a tight timeline for it to happen. We need Aaron Hall to clear it all up for us, but after seeing his interviews with Vlad I bet he would just make it more confusing for us. Dude definitely did some serious drugs in his day.
 

dj coma

In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'.  Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out.  Anyone know the deal with that?

Why would they need Dre's clearance to use the sample? And there was a 4 year gap between the songs.
 

bouli77

In a similar vein, I always found it odd that Dre allowed Blu Cantrelle (who wasn't well known at all) to wholesale take the beat to 'What's The Difference' and use it for her single 'Breathe'.  Now I know that Dre's track itself uses a sample, but it's still surprising that it was allowed so soon after Chronic 2001 came out.  Anyone know the deal with that?

That's a different situation.

Blu Cantrelle straight up used the same beat for What's the Difference. She recorded her song using Dre's instrumental, like a remix. kinda like how Cam'ron's My Life uses Ambitionz Az A Ridah.

I Ain't Mad at Cha and AEOM are two different beats which interpolate the same song. the songs sound very different. just the single version and the album version are pretty different from one another.
 

DeeezNuuuts83


Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.

but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
They most likely just had inside info.  Remember Pac's last interview with VIBE... he even talks about Cube making the song Bow Down, which didn't come out until August 28th, but I'm pretty sure that VIBE interview was definitely done before that.
 

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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.




u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.
 

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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Another Level was released Sept. 9th, 1996. Toss It Up was finished early August so that's the earliest Teddy would have known about their beat being jacked. When you take mixing, mastering, and pressing into account that's a pretty tight timeline for Blackstreet to slip in a "revenge" beat jacking. It is a strange/interesting coincidence though.

but think how quick pac had to make toss it up tho....thats my take. how did pac even know about "no diggity", that song was literally released 2 days after he got shot. so from what I gathered, both parties had some inside information, probably from aaron hall, since he was in contact with both sides. cats have mixed and mastered an entire album in weeks, so 1 song is not inconceivable.. especially when u got that kinda passion behind it that comes from tryna get some getback. it fuels the motor.
They most likely just had inside info.  Remember Pac's last interview with VIBE... he even talks about Cube making the song Bow Down, which didn't come out until August 28th, but I'm pretty sure that VIBE interview was definitely done before that.


yup...lota those peoples in question ran in the same circles. wouldn't be surprised if some1 came at teddy like "yo pac jacked u, but I heard he just used this debarge sample..bet we can get him back by flipping that sample on a r&b joint".
 

dj coma


Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.




u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.

The "revenge" wouldn't have gone back that far though because there was nothing to "avenge" until August 96.
 

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Pac got wind of this, pulled the track they had out of the archives, stuck that totally random Dre dissing 2nd verse on it, shot a video and put it on Makaveli just to jab at Dre which they all got wind of so in a bitch fit of revenge Dre then told Teddy about the DeBarge sample Pac was going to use for the I Aint Mad At Cha video and had him reflip it to jack Pacs concept, the end.

sounds unlikely, Teddy Riley didn't need Dre to know about I Ain't Mad At Cha since AEOM was released in February 96 and by the time Pac had shot the video for it (May 96), Dre was no longer on Death Row.
Also, to say that they jacked Pac's concept is a stretch. They merely interpolated the same song. What concept exactly ? They didn't flip the beat the same way, the theme of the song is different. And the single was released after Pac had died in 97. Your theory would have somehow kinda made sense had Blackstreet blindsided Pac and recorded and released Don't Leave Me before Pac released I Ain't Mad At Cha but that's clearly not the case.

That's like saying Lil Kim jacked Tha Dogg Pound's concept for Crush On You.

U GOTA ADMIT THAT IT WOULD BE A PRETTY STRANGE COINCIDENCE THAT PAC JACKED BLACKSTREET'S JOINT, AND THEN SOMEHOW, BLACKSTREET IS USIN THE SAME SAMPLE AS A PAC SINGLE JUST A COUPLE MONTHS LATER........I WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF WHAT EYEBALL IS SAYIN WAS TRUE. HOW MANY OTHER SONGS USED THAT SAMPLE WIT THE BEAT BEIN ALMOST IDENTICAL? AND IN THE SAME YEAR TOO?? AFTER THEY JUS GOT JACKED BY THAT SAME GUY??? CHANCES WOULD BE LOW.

Nobody jacked anybody. Daz & Soopafly produced I Ain't Mad At Cha, the song came out in February 96. Blackstreet released their albums in September 96 with a song using the same original song. That's a 7 month lapse. Maybe Teddy Riley chose to make a song based on Debarge's A Dream based on Pac's song (that's a hypothetical, and even if he did, it wouldn't be considered jacking), but he sure as hell didn't need Dre to do so since the album was already commercially available.




u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.

The "revenge" wouldn't have gone back that far though because there was nothing to "avenge" until August 96.

yea...so the revenge happened in august. thats what I'm saying in my following post. its not a sure thing, but it would be one hell of a coincidence if that wasn't the case.
 

bouli77

Quote
u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.

I don't have any inside information, it's just common sense. Since the album was out as early as February, it's n and chronologically it doesn't really add up.

1) I Ain't Mad At Cha came out before Toss It Up was made.

2) Pac was dead before Toss It Up was released.

3) Toss It Up and No Diggity were released within the same week in late september.

4) Stay With Me came out as a single in early 97. A little late for revenge don't you think ?

Now, the Backstreet album was released on September 9, that means, knowing you have to submit an album to the record company at the very least a month and a half before the actual release date, that at best Don't Leave Me was recorded, mixed and mastered in late July 96. They hadn't even shot the video for Toss It Up, and most likely not even recorded it. So Blackstreet anticipated Pac to jack their song and went out of their way to rush a song with the same sample, and made a late minuted inclusion on their album just in case ? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, how is using the same sample is revenge exactly ? How is it jacking ? It's neither. If Blackstreet had beat Pac to the punch by releasing a similar song, with a similar concept and similar video, that is revenge and jacking cause it makes the later artist look bad. But in that case, not really.

In that case, did Wreck N Effects release Rump Shaker to piss off N2Deep ? Both songs came out around summer 92.

 

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u got inside information that we dont have? if "I aint mad cha" came out in February of 96, that leaves a heck of a long time for Blackstreet to go ahead and use the same sample as revenge. I remember being a kid and wondering "why did they make this joint on the 2pac beat?"...obviously, its simply the same sample. but the chances of them randomly picking the same sample after gettin jacked for "toss it up" are slim to none.

I don't have any inside information, it's just common sense. Since the album was out as early as February, it's n and chronologically it doesn't really add up.

1) I Ain't Mad At Cha came out before Toss It Up was made.

2) Pac was dead before Toss It Up was released.

3) Toss It Up and No Diggity were released within the same week in late september.

4) Stay With Me came out as a single in early 97. A little late for revenge don't you think ?

Now, the Backstreet album was released on September 9, that means, knowing you have to submit an album to the record company at the very least a month and a half before the actual release date, that at best Don't Leave Me was recorded, mixed and mastered in late July 96. They hadn't even shot the video for Toss It Up, and most likely not even recorded it. So Blackstreet anticipated Pac to jack their song and went out of their way to rush a song with the same sample, and made a late minuted inclusion on their album just in case ? Doesn't make sense to me.

Also, how is using the same sample is revenge exactly ? How is it jacking ? It's neither. If Blackstreet had beat Pac to the punch by releasing a similar song, with a similar concept and similar video, that is revenge and jacking cause it makes the later artist look bad. But in that case, not really.

In that case, did Wreck N Effects release Rump Shaker to piss off N2Deep ? Both songs came out around summer 92.



lol if u dont see how its a slap in the face to purposely use the same exact sample for the primary melody on a beat as a single that just came out, I duno what to tell ya .. n2deep and wreck n effects is completely different, because theres no history and backstory like there was in this incident. if it was a coincidence wit wrecks n effects, then theres REALLY no problems. but lets say wreck n effects did hear the n2deep joint and then decided to use the same sample, then yea, that would be biting and could become a problem (I vaguely remember a diff beef starting over artists jacking sample ideas from each other)...but unlike the n2deep-wreck n effects example, in this case, theres a clear history between the artists using the same sample; it would straight up be on some "we took your joint and made it ours, so it aint u no more" shit. aint nobody hearing that was thinking debarge at the time. when both songs was on pop radio, the general consensus was thinking "aw shit, blackstreet is singing on that new pac joint".

"I aint mad at cha" came out months before, but what does that have anything to do with this? ur points make no sense at all..what u missin is that "I aint mad at cha" was scheduled to be pac's new single around the time "toss it up" was made. like I said, a lot of peoples run in the same circles out in cali- especially when u dealing wit aaron hall, who was playin both sides..that means inside info aint that hard to come by. teddy riley produced "dont leave me".. that song coulda literally been done in a day; the same day they heard about "toss it up" (summer of 96) ..remember they was saying aaron hall did the joint before pac got on it. even if they didnt hear the actual song, people talk..word musta been floating around that pac was taking that joint as a diss around July- same time blackstreet woulda did "don't leave me"...and what joint was being released as pac's next single during that time-frame?...."I aint mad at cha".

the timelines add up perfectly

not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.
 

eyeball

lamb gets it.

The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.

Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?

Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.

These are the facts, even if you can't see them.
 

bouli77

not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.

that's precisely what I'm NOT doing. i'm saying that everything u been saying about this situation is pure hypotheticals. at the end of the day, the only thing we DO know, is that Toss It Up & No Diggity have similarities and that Don't Leave Me & I Ain't Mad At Cha interpolate the same song. U and eyeball are the ones making claims about "beat jacking" elaborating from a few tangible elements. as you said there's no evidence either way. only a few elements.

it's far fetched and exaggerated to use the word "jack" for the use of a same song that do not belong to Pac. that's it.

lamb gets it.

The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.

Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?

Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.

These are the facts, even if you can't see them.

that's a nice theory but please don't call facts hypotheticals. you use facts to make assumptions and deductions, that's fine, we all do, but the word fact is one of the most misused term nowadays.  . I understand your point better now though, fair enough, and it does make sense although I still don't think we can say Dre did it and that they "jacked" Pac's beat.
 

eyeball

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

    a thing that is known or proved to be true.

I've outlined a nice and simple flow of events from the rooter to the tooter about this track, if you want we could get extra nerdy with all the recording dates, pertinent external activity, character references and examples of ways each involved choose to conduct business along with a whole load of anecdotals that further reinforce the facts of the scenario outlined.

Bottom line is it went down as I stated and as for why Dre did it, simple:

a) He acts like a bitch when it comes to confrontation and isn't the type to beef out in the open but doing it via proxy using Teddy Riley fits his style.
b) He knew Pac was coming for head and that DR would be pissed that he slid a beat out of their vault that they wouldn't be able to bank or nor sue him for as it was credited to Riley but he still got publishing for his verse and thus still ate/increased his profile
c) There was some background legal shenanigans around this era between Dre and DR which was why the beat was reproduced for Makaveli

I'm surprised that you require clarification on this topic given the nature of the personalities involved, the history, how hiphop was at the time, what Pac was like, the tension between Aaron Hall and Riley and all the other points I outlined.
 

DeeezNuuuts83

But you have to remember that that was a time where beats getting jacked (whether intentionally or just coincidentally using the same sample) caused a lot of animosity. It's not like now where artists can put up songs they made that day. Back then, they made stuff and had a strategy for releasing it, so imagine how annoying it was to have a hot potential single in your hands and plan to have it generate buzz, then someone else puts out a song that sounds the same.  Then they either have to scrap or remix it, or put it out anyway and suffer from the law of diminishing returns where people hear it and go, "heard that already, they copied it."

Pac went off about that with Ready to Die, and when more unreleased stuff came out, we did hear Time to Get My Drink On with the same "Between the Sheets" sample, so he wasn't reaching too far about how he had to change things around. And I think there was an OFTB interview where they talked about how Ladies Night was supposed to be a single of theirs, but when Lil Kim remixed Not Tonight with that same sample and made it a single, then that kind of screwed up their plans, which is hard since OFTB wasn't the radio single type of group.

Shit, even Puff beefed over beats, albeit with a softie.  Remember how he socked Drake over the 0-100 beat?
 

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not saying thats what happened for sure, because we dont know unless the artists speak on it...but to act like u do know when theres no evidence either way is getting ahead of yaself.

that's precisely what I'm NOT doing. i'm saying that everything u been saying about this situation is pure hypotheticals. at the end of the day, the only thing we DO know, is that Toss It Up & No Diggity have similarities and that Don't Leave Me & I Ain't Mad At Cha interpolate the same song. U and eyeball are the ones making claims about "beat jacking" elaborating from a few tangible elements. as you said there's no evidence either way. only a few elements.

it's far fetched and exaggerated to use the word "jack" for the use of a same song that do not belong to Pac. that's it.

lamb gets it.

The use of the flip and how they followed No Diggity with it was always intended as a dig and as I said Dre would've known that Pac was smoothing out the flipped sample for the I Ain't Mad At Cha video version and Teddy replayed it with a very similar vibe/style. Had it just been an album track with its production the way it was it might've been a "hmmm" and no more thing but the fact that it was a planned single always lead me to believe that No Diggity/Don't Leave Me was going to be a double A side release but that was canned when Pac died and moved to two standard releases.

Can you imagine his reaction if he were alive? Dre gave them "his" beat, he took it back and they jacked his new singles sample and dropped them both at once?

Pac himself did the same thing to Nas over the Friends sample ("I took your beat and am whupping your ass with it") and in the competitive nature of hiphop jacking someones beat after they've declared it theirs is an act of aggression that always warrants a response.

These are the facts, even if you can't see them.

that's a nice theory but please don't call facts hypotheticals. you use facts to make assumptions and deductions, that's fine, we all do, but the word fact is one of the most misused term nowadays.  . I understand your point better now though, fair enough, and it does make sense although I still don't think we can say Dre did it and that they "jacked" Pac's beat.

wrong .. you are the one making conclusive statements like u got inside info over there ala "they didn't jack anyone" .. i said from the very beginning that these are all hypotheticals and i'm not ruling out either scenario. meanwhile, u ruled out the same sample bein flipped as a slap in the face. gotta be careful what info u put out there as definitives when u aren't positive, not just on this meaningless topic, but in general.
 

dj coma

At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.
 

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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.

"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol
 

jmix

sorry i missed this thread. i am working on Mr. Hall now.
 

dj coma

At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.

"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol

That's what I meant. At the very least he heard I Ain't Mad At Cha and decided he wanted to flip it for the Blackstreet album, not on some revenge shit. I Ain't Mad At Cha wasn't a single until right before Pac died so he might not have thought it would be a big deal to use the same sample.
 

eyeball

Your Teddy Riley apologist tone is quite strange.

Consider Riley took that beat when offered it by Dre even though he knew Pac had spit on it before and if he didn't he certainly did once the Toss It Up promo vinyl dropped one month before Makaveli. It's also quite strange how you can't appear to put together the pieces of how he'd Jack Pacs beat in return for him doing the same.

Simple question:

What age were you in 96?
 

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At the very least I bet that Teddy was inspired to to use the Debarge sample after hearing I Ain't Mad At Cha.

"inspired" makes it sound friendly lol

That's what I meant. At the very least he heard I Ain't Mad At Cha and decided he wanted to flip it for the Blackstreet album, not on some revenge shit. I Ain't Mad At Cha wasn't a single until right before Pac died so he might not have thought it would be a big deal to use the same sample.

i think it's either done wit intent or by coincidence .. i highly doubt there's an in between here.
 

dj coma

Your Teddy Riley apologist tone is quite strange.

Consider Riley took that beat when offered it by Dre even though he knew Pac had spit on it before and if he didn't he certainly did once the Toss It Up promo vinyl dropped one month before Makaveli. It's also quite strange how you can't appear to put together the pieces of how he'd Jack Pacs beat in return for him doing the same.

Simple question:

What age were you in 96?

You misunderstood what I said, I'm not being an apologist at all. I said "at the very least," as in we can at least concede that without knowing more. I was definitely not ruling out him doing something nefarious by using the same Debarge sample. The narrow window Teddy had to use the same sample as get back is why I am not convinced one way or the other on it, without going off more than what somebody said on dubcc. But like I said before, your theory is very plausible even with the narrow window.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 02:34:39 PM by dj coma »
 

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the good thing is that the great jmix is guna clear it all up for us .. what would dubcc do witout him? a shame rud hasn't got at him yet to make him dubcnn's exclusive interviewer .. whatever happened to shima btw?