Author Topic: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez  (Read 1292 times)

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« on: August 20, 2017, 01:45:08 AM »
First off, I love the documentary.  This is just for conversation sake for the die hard fans.

In both Defiant Onez and in the NWA movie Dre seems to make it as if he had not seen Cube in forever, since the NWA beef, and like they linked back up visiting Eazy in the hospital when he was dying of AIDS.

Of course, in truth, Dre and Cube were tight throughout Dre's Death Row period with Cubes cameo in "Let Me Ride"--their epic song and video "Natural Born Killaz" and the Helter Skelter project was advertised on Doggystyle as an intended Death Row release.

Anyway... not a big deal... just pointing it out.  Another thing..

They also greatly exaggerated Dre's mishaps in the early days of Aftermath.  King Tee confirmed in an interview last year was that the attitude around the label was always positive and that they were winning.  Aftermath Presents and the Firm were both platinum albums--likely 2 times over...Firm even entered the charts at #1.

Ofcourse critically they were subpar by Dre's standards, but still... it seems to me an embellishment for Jimmy to suggest Dre owed money and that he was getting pressure to drop Dre.  Then Eminem suggesting Dre was under pressure and the whole label being against him signing a white artist.

At the end of the day he was fucking Dr. Dre.  And I highly doubt Interscope was just going to drop him after two platinum albums, and definitely no one at his own label was gonna question him over who he wanted to sign and work with.  There might of been whispers, but that was all exaggerated for effect on Defiant Onez.

They wanted to create the Jesus narrative of Dre rising up again and again.  Wrecking Cru was dope and still successful but they made it sound like Dre was down and out after Wrecking Cru.  I also don't buy the narrative of the Chronic getting turned down by all these labels--I doubt he shopped it around and got turned down.  The lawsuits may of been and issue but I don't picture Dre "shopping around" the album.  It was sought after from the beggining.  It's not like Dre had to go around begging people.

My point is Dre did take some risks in his career like leaving Death Row but there were no such low points in his career.  He was always in demand and sought after, and had bright prospects for success.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 01:47:07 AM by Infinite Trapped in 1996 »
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

MakCorleone

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2017, 11:29:50 AM »
The part where Jimmy said they bailed Pac i think its BS, if they put some money probably was Pac's royalties from MATW
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 11:44:57 AM »
The part where Jimmy said they bailed Pac i think its BS, if they put some money probably was Pac's royalties from MATW

Well that depends.  I mean... if we are talking about where did the money come from?  I do believe that they fronted the money and Suge secured it from them.  Maybe it was money that was already owed Pac, or maybe by way of Suge going and bullying/extorting the money out of them you can kind of say it was Suge's money. 

It probably went down the way Jimmy says it went down.  I mean, it's not like his career hinges on coming up with a false narrative for the Pac bailout story in 2017 

But either way it's not B.S. 
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

eyeball

Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 04:03:46 AM »
They're rich now and once people get rich they wash their legacies and reimage their history and presentation to the world and that's all this one. Truth and lies woven together and slickly presented to make them both appear more than they are for new generations that will take this as gospel.
 

me1

Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2017, 09:15:06 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both
 

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2017, 10:41:03 PM »
theatrics overdramatized for a more interesting story, but it all stems from truth
 

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 06:18:17 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 08:45:09 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

Truth seems to be somewhere in between- you're right that they're exaggerating the failures but I think other people in the thread are right that Dre and the upper echelon of the people he was in business with and himself felt these projects were "failures" compared to his past successes.

-T

 
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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 11:20:08 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

Truth seems to be somewhere in between- you're right that they're exaggerating the failures but I think other people in the thread are right that Dre and the upper echelon of the people he was in business with and himself felt these projects were "failures" compared to his past successes.

-T

If they would or said they were "critical" failures or even "flops" I'd be fine with that.  Cause they were compared to Dre's previous work.

But when Jimmy started acting like he was getting pressure to drop Dre and that they were in the hole money and all that shit...just to set up Jimmy to be able to say "I told them if you get rid of Dre you get rid of me".  I say that's an embellishment.  Critical disappointments, yes.  But commercial failures, they weren't.

Just listen to King T's most recent interview that was on here he said the vibe around Aftermath was that they were winning, because regardless the albums sold.

*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 11:24:24 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

Truth seems to be somewhere in between- you're right that they're exaggerating the failures but I think other people in the thread are right that Dre and the upper echelon of the people he was in business with and himself felt these projects were "failures" compared to his past successes.

-T

If they would or said they were "critical" failures or even "flops" I'd be fine with that.  Cause they were compared to Dre's previous work.

But when Jimmy started acting like he was getting pressure to drop Dre and that they were in the hole money and all that shit...just to set up Jimmy to be able to say "I told them if you get rid of Dre you get rid of me".  I say that's an embellishment.  Critical disappointments, yes.  But commercial failures, they weren't.

Just listen to King T's most recent interview that was on here he said the vibe around Aftermath was that they were winning, because regardless the albums sold.


theatrics
 

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 08:19:25 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both


Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

Truth seems to be somewhere in between- you're right that they're exaggerating the failures but I think other people in the thread are right that Dre and the upper echelon of the people he was in business with and himself felt these projects were "failures" compared to his past successes.

-T

If they would or said they were "critical" failures or even "flops" I'd be fine with that.  Cause they were compared to Dre's previous work.

But when Jimmy started acting like he was getting pressure to drop Dre and that they were in the hole money and all that shit...just to set up Jimmy to be able to say "I told them if you get rid of Dre you get rid of me".  I say that's an embellishment.  Critical disappointments, yes.  But commercial failures, they weren't.

Just listen to King T's most recent interview that was on here he said the vibe around Aftermath was that they were winning, because regardless the albums sold.


i agree that it's all to set up the "dre goes i go" moment. buuuut i also agree that "platinum" ain't 5x platinum to investor ears.

-T

 
Fee Fie Foe Fum; somethin' stank and I want some.

My hip-hop group The West Coast Avengers @

westcoastavengers.com
 

me1

Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 11:07:22 AM »
Ding ding ding... that's exactly it.

Dre's 1996-9 output wasn't genre and culture shifting like everything Dre had touched prior. So if you're an exec it looks like he's washed.

Dre's shelved far better music than that T album
 

eyeball

Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 07:33:42 AM »
Poor Dre.



I mean poor rich Dre.
 

me1

Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 02:43:54 AM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

No money had been put in play to promote Hitt, T or anyone else on Aftermath.. those albums would have flopped a lot harder despite all of us checking for them.

The label was looking for a Snoop, a Pac, etc. nothing revisionist about the fact they had yet to find that and thatvin itself was considered failure
 

Infinite Trapped in 1996

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Re: Revisionist History in Defiant Onez
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 08:57:49 PM »
Firm and Aftermath Presents were indeed both massive flops that left the label in the hole. Massive production budgets, marketing, etc. Compared to what Dre had done prior, they were monumental failures. That's why T was shelved. No one could justify the expense of promotion etc.

That wasn't an exaggeration at all. Dre had yet to redefine his sound, find new talent to cultivate, and was at risk of losing whatever budget he had to accomplish both

Gee, I wonder what the production and marketing budget must have been for them to be "in the hole" after two platinum albums.  That's bullshit.  The videos and promotions for those albums weren't exactly Michael Jackson territory.

Even on major labels, as long as you go 300,000 then you are making money.  Firm was a number 1 album--some labels operate for years without a #1.

Aftermath was winning, and you can't even include "production" and "marketing" expenses into your King T argument cause actually the reverse is true.  Those production and marketing costs had already been spent.  He'd already had a lead single and video, completed album, and advertisements--only thing left was to press and ship.

The for whatever reason, maybe cause of the Eminem discover or moreso Dre's outrageous standards he decided last minute not to release it.

No money had been put in play to promote Hitt, T or anyone else on Aftermath.. those albums would have flopped a lot harder despite all of us checking for them.

The label was looking for a Snoop, a Pac, etc. nothing revisionist about the fact they had yet to find that and thatvin itself was considered failure

They'd spent money to promote King T.  For starters, he'd had a video for "Got It Locked" and ads for the album in the Source.
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********