Author Topic: Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)  (Read 1032 times)

Trauma-san

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2003, 09:30:16 PM »
^^ Chill out about killing babies? LOL We need to understand this for what it is.  Lemme explain a little better.

If they pull the baby out of the womb, it is considered "born", and then it is considered "Alive" , and is considered a "Human being".

If they pull the baby HALFWAY out of the womb, then that gives doctors free license to destroy it, by cutting the back of it's neck open, while it's kicking, and put a vacuum cleaner in to suck it's brains out, with the intention of destroying it.

How can anyone support this?  If it was me, and I was pregnant, first, it'd be a miracle, but second, I'd rather lose MY life then lose my babies life? What the hell has happened to people that everyone doesn't think like this anymore?

If the baby ran the risk of dying, or being deformed, those were PHYSICAL reasons.  Every one of the 182 abortions had mental reasons listed, and not mental problems with the baby, things like the mother didn't feel she could support it, the mother didn't want it, etc.  In not 1 case was there anything wrong with the mother, or the baby.  These are the results from the 1 state that keeps track.  We can assume that they are at least partially representative of the other 50 states.

Also, i'm sorry, but if your kid is going to be a friekin' vegetable, it's still your kid.  Murder isn't right when the baby's still half in the womb, anyway you look at it.  
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2003, 02:10:20 AM »
yeah that shit sounds nasty... why are they aborting so late..? it shouldnt run that long in the first place if they dont want the kid... its not like choosing groceries.

i have no problems with what i'll call early abortions (in the very early term) esp. in circumstances where a) its accidental... b) as a result of rape etc etc
 

HHH

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2003, 03:24:06 AM »
Of course abortion is wrong, people just don't want to think about it because they're more concerned about convienance in their life.

sorry trauma but thats bollocks !!
 

OpTiCaL

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2003, 03:24:08 AM »
I have no idea what you two are talking about with partial birth abortions...


...they are illegal here...and the main reasons to have right ot abortion were outlined by myself earlier...


...i think the right to have an abortion is certain circumstances in the uk is fine...the baby has to be less than 9 weeks from conception which means it is still an embrya...not a baby yet!

Thanst wh we have the cut off date when abortions become "illegal" and therefore practised maybe underground in a place that is neither sanctioned or well managed.

...there is the other case that sometimes a baby has to aborted or both the mother & baby will face death...i do know this because my cousin went through it.


So at least i think abortion is handled well in the uk....we do not allow partial birth abortions so i am not getting into that side of this.
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2003, 03:37:20 AM »
^ yeah thats what i meant...  ;)
 

OpTiCaL

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2003, 04:10:51 AM »
i Kno :)
 

mauzip

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2003, 10:05:39 AM »
here in holland i believe you can only have an abortion before the 7th week. they have it regulated pretty good over here.
 

Javier

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2003, 10:59:48 AM »
even if the women was raped...she still has the option of giving up the baby  for adoption
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 11:00:24 AM by Javier »
 

OpTiCaL

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2003, 05:19:57 AM »
Yes but that a silly statement to make unless youve directly been involved in a situation like that...


...each is different..both the rape situation and the strenght of the person who has been raped...


...imagine being raped...bad enough...id rather be shot to be perfectly honest...then you have to carry the baby of the person who raped you around as an everyday reminder of the vile crime that has been commited against you for Nine months...then give birth to it...then deal with the consequences is a hard thing to do for anyone...

...then imagine the guilt of not wanting that baby because the rapist is the father...then the decision of whether to give it up or not...then maybe if its kept imagine the impact when the child is grown to know that its father was a rapist who raped its mother...that really gonna screw its head up...not to mention the mother with 20 - 40 years of the reminder...

...so your remark was quite flippant and unthoughtful
 

HHH

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2003, 05:34:35 AM »
Yes but that a silly statement to make unless youve directly been involved in a situation like that...


...each is different..both the rape situation and the strenght of the person who has been raped...


...imagine being raped...bad enough...id rather be shot to be perfectly honest...then you have to carry the baby of the person who raped you around as an everyday reminder of the vile crime that has been commited against you for Nine months...then give birth to it...then deal with the consequences is a hard thing to do for anyone...

...then imagine the guilt of not wanting that baby because the rapist is the father...then the decision of whether to give it up or not...then maybe if its kept imagine the impact when the child is grown to know that its father was a rapist who raped its mother...that really gonna screw its head up...not to mention the mother with 20 - 40 years of the reminder...

...so your remark was quite flippant and unthoughtful

nail on the head there op !!  ;D it seems to me that most people here have not looked or thought about all the reasons that someone would choose to have a termination.....everyone just jumps around sayin its murder and wrong which is a load of ol' bollocks imo !! people should open their eyes wider and look at the whole picture not just bits of it !!
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2003, 06:28:06 AM »
yup yup

to those still screaming.. 'its muuuuuuurdaaaaaaaa'

and especially to those like myself not coming from a "would i do it myself" perspective... (that means the men.. well in some cases sounds like boys that is ;))

riddle me this..

if your significiant other (girlfriend/wife) was raped and became pregnant

would you really make her go full term with it if she didnt want to?

would you really raise the child of a rapist as your own?

even if she did carry it full term... isn't shipping this child off to adoption just as cruel.. i mean you're still 'disposing' of it.. is that really more humane?

if you had children of your own before or after.. would you love them more?

step-children are often mis-treated by the non-blood parent (and sometimes by the blood parent too as a way at getting at their former partner) imagine how this kid would be being told 'your unwanted, your the result of a rape'... both parents wouldnt like the kid... so like opti said... imagine how fucked up that kid would be.

of course individual circumstances affect things.. if a girl of mine was in this situation i'd support whatever she chose.. but i'd i dont know if i could raise a rapists child as my own..

my personal choice.. if it was just down to me. termination no question.. but thats not really my choice to make... because how much say 'the man' has in this is a whole other issue in itself.. especially when its not his seed.

just like how u dont have the right to tell someone its murder if u have no idea what they're going through and dont have to live with the conquences of that decision itself.  like opti also said.. the woman has to deal with the circumstances of the actual original ordeal was well as the after effect.

its not always black & white. you have no right to preach to people. i hate meddlers with a passion especiallly when you can only scream "its murrrrrrrrrdaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" without actually talking about the issue.
 

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2003, 10:20:23 AM »
oh guys they show worse pictures then these toscare women out of having abortions but i hate to tell you some of these are miscarriages and some are abortions they don't care how they label the baby just as long as they scare the woman plenty.They seem to have scared you guys good enough..............
don't quote mre boy I ain't said shit "yet"
 

TheSheriff

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2003, 10:39:41 AM »
I could only ever contemplate an abortion in case of rape. Otherwise, the woman has chosen to take the risk. I do not agree with contraception either.

And yes, I have been in this situation. My surrogate sister had two children before being married. She could have aborted them, she didn't plan them, she didn't want them at first...but she grew to love them.

And she had said that if she felt she couldn't deal with them, they'd go up for adoption, not abortion.

You pro-choicers on this forum make it sound as if it's a routine operation, yet deny it is done for convenience. Sex was not created, as in penile-vaginal sex, for enjoyment. It was created for procreation. That is THE BOTTOM LINE.

You have NO RIGHT to destroy that life inside you. You decided to use the process of procreation for pleasure, and that is your prerogative. But you MUST accept the consequences. Stop running from your immoral acts.
 

Javier

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2003, 11:01:36 AM »
Quote
step-children are often mis-treated by the non-blood parent (and sometimes by the blood parent too as a way at getting at their former partner) imagine how this kid would be being told 'your unwanted, your the result of a rape'... both parents wouldnt like the kid... so like opti said... imagine how fucked up that kid would be.

WTF, are you serious? Thats kinda weird.....the only times I hear about mistreatment of kids...is when there is a single mother who remarries another guy and that guy ends up hating the kid....but not when they adopt a kid....u need a seriously big heart do actually adopt a baby.

Quote
even if she did carry it full term... isn't shipping this child off to adoption just as cruel.. i mean you're still 'disposing' of it.. is that really more humane?

No, how can living and not living be the same?

Quote
...imagine being raped...bad enough...id rather be shot to be perfectly honest...then you have to carry the baby of the person who raped you around as an everyday reminder of the vile crime that has been commited against you for Nine months...then give birth to it...then deal with the consequences is a hard thing to do for anyone...
your statement is similiar to this...picture 15 year old Jon thinkngto himself "damn....my parents fucken hate me, well at least I think they do,  I cant pass the 10th grade,  im a fat , ugly, rude, smelly guy who cant get a girl, and i have no future.....Imma kill myself cuz  cant live with the fact that im a loser....so should a parent kill their son at THIS moment?...it is the same...ur not letting your kid to grow up...and in abortion your not even letting your kid to be born to know what his or her consequences can be
 

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2003, 11:05:57 AM »

your statement is similiar to this...picture 15 year old Jon thinkngto himself "damn....my parents fucken hate me, well at least I think they do,  I cant pass the 10th grade,  im a fat , ugly, rude, smelly guy who cant get a girl, and i have no future.....Imma kill myself cuz  cant live with the fact that im a loser....so should a parent kill their son at THIS moment?...it is the same...

Not similar at all.  Stupid thing to say.
 

Javier

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2003, 11:15:06 AM »

your statement is similiar to this...picture 15 year old Jon thinkngto himself "damn....my parents fucken hate me, well at least I think they do,  I cant pass the 10th grade,  im a fat , ugly, rude, smelly guy who cant get a girl, and i have no future.....Imma kill myself cuz  cant live with the fact that im a loser....so should a parent kill their son at THIS moment?...it is the same...

Not similar at all.  Stupid thing to say.

Stupid? why is it ok to not even to waitfor a kid to develop and decide to end it before it even started....? but not ok to end a life for a kid whose life already started but uknow is not goin anywhere?
 

bLaDe HeLi[X]

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2003, 11:16:08 AM »
I could only ever contemplate an abortion in case of rape. Otherwise, the woman has chosen to take the risk. I do not agree with contraception either.

And yes, I have been in this situation. My surrogate sister had two children before being married. She could have aborted them, she didn't plan them, she didn't want them at first...but she grew to love them.

And she had said that if she felt she couldn't deal with them, they'd go up for adoption, not abortion.

You pro-choicers on this forum make it sound as if it's a routine operation, yet deny it is done for convenience. Sex was not created, as in penile-vaginal sex, for enjoyment. It was created for procreation. That is THE BOTTOM LINE.

You have NO RIGHT to destroy that life inside you. You decided to use the process of procreation for pleasure, and that is your prerogative. But you MUST accept the consequences. Stop running from your immoral acts.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2003, 11:22:25 AM »
uh oh... we gotta hardliner moralist here.. :)

anti-contraception too.. ohh weeee..

first off.. you knew this would be coming from me... ;)

what right do you have in tarring us 'pro-choicers' tell us what to do? think you're assuming the moral high ground? i believe your actually just showing ignorance to other peoples choices and their rights.

i do agree that abortion should not be taken lightly.. but i do firmly believe the person that makes that decision + their partner are the only ones who have right to choose and have a say in the matter. as long as they're acting within the laws of wherever they live then thats 100% fine with me :)

i get highly agitated when people on a crusade.. esp. like the example I first mentioned when I posted on this thread, which was a case that has actually happened. the one where underaged girl who was been raped was been forced to keep a child she and her family didnt want via campaigning and moral pressure from her community (i believe it was an irish-catholic one).

i find that repulsive.. and i feel deeply sorry for the poor girl to have been dragged through that and the crusaders should be ashamed of themselves in my book.

and i'm sorry.. i know you, pink and some others are catholics but this and the churches line on contraception are two of many things i find repulsive about that faith. (sorry i dont know the line islam or anything else takes on this issue right now)

abortion is not a 'get rid and be done with it' thing, it does have deep lasting effects, regret, sorrow. guilt.. etc etc on both parties. (but yeah sadly there are those shallow enough to use it as a late contraception method repeatedly)

and i'm glad you agree even though its against your faith on the rape/abortion issue.

myself.. not being religious as you know... i believe in contraception 100% & in  abortion itself depending on the right circumstances i find acceptible and when its handled insside the within boundries of the law as i see it here. (the US law and this 'partial' thing seem a bit 'off' to me... dont know enough about that)

I see this as being responsible.. especially with contraception where at least the 'meeting of genes' is prevented from happening. I'd rather people did use contraception than fill the world with a bunch of unwanted kids.

Personally I'd rather bring a child into this world in a planned and controlled manner when I feel i'm in a stable enough environment to provide for it and my missus (married or not.. yeah i'mma sinner baby) and raise it as I see fit. Things don't always go according to plan.. and depending on the circumstances.. like for example if I were in a long term relationship that may well be life long.. then it would be likely that i'd want to keep it. But as the result of a one-nighter or a casual thing (which I'm not into anyways... but shit happens  ;D) or even when the relationship isnt 'far enough down the road yet'... then its likely I'd want nothing to come of that.. down the line some of those relationships might actually have turned out to be stable + long lasting, but it could also have been over in a flash...
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2003, 11:26:36 AM »
Quote
step-children are often mis-treated by the non-blood parent (and sometimes by the blood parent too as a way at getting at their former partner) imagine how this kid would be being told 'your unwanted, your the result of a rape'... both parents wouldnt like the kid... so like opti said... imagine how fucked up that kid would be.

WTF, are you serious? Thats kinda weird.....the only times I hear about mistreatment of kids...is when there is a single mother who remarries another guy and that guy ends up hating the kid....but not when they adopt a kid....u need a seriously big heart do actually adopt a baby.

you actually agree with me here because you dont understand what i said. i started off

step-parent = the 'other guy' situation so you just repeated what i'd said.

and yes, of course adopted parents wanted the kid in the first place.

foster parents are a different matter.. some are just in it for the money, and could give a fuck about the kid as long as its no trouble and the moneys coming in.
 

TheSheriff

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2003, 11:29:18 AM »
That foetus may have become the next Jesus, or next Hitler; we don't know. But it is not the right of some woman who went into the situation knowing the risks, to dictate history. IT IS NOT HER RIGHT.

With rape, I can condone abortion. It is still tragic, but I understand it.

But when some woman goes sleeping around, in it for pleasure, using an act created for procreation to give her joy...It is not her right to abort that baby. It is her fault. She MUST live with the consequences.

Don't make out it scars every woman deeply. This woman who sleeps around, she doesn't care how many little lives she crushes.

I have every right to take the moral high ground, because I'm right.
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2003, 11:35:55 AM »
I have every right to take the moral high ground, because I'm right.

I want to put that on my wall and frame it... such arrogance.



You ignored what i said about it being used as a 'late contraception'. I dont agree with that.

Thats why I'm for contraception in the first place.

Would you rather someone used a condom or took the pill now

or

Aborted anyways a while later?



Using contraception before hand is being more responsible and forward thinking about the consequences.
 

TheSheriff

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2003, 11:54:28 AM »
I want to put that on my wall and frame it... such arrogance.

Would you rather someone used a condom or took the pill now

or

Aborted anyways a while later?

a) Yes, I'm arrogant, and you don't have a sense of humour.

b) Neither.
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2003, 12:01:48 PM »
a)  8)

b) but will you concede that contraception is the lesser of those two evils...
 

TheSheriff

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Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2003, 12:08:04 PM »
a)  8)

b) but will you concede that contraception is the lesser of those two evils...

I will concede no such thing.
 

Don Seer

Re:Abortion = Wrong (Warning Graphic Image, not for faint of heart)
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2003, 12:35:31 PM »
lol