Baptism of the Dead

[Miss NWA Whoorider]

this is a good one.There is a passage in the bible that says that even if you die and go to hell that you have a chance of going to Heaven if someone takes a baptism in your name..........ask Trauma about it........anyway it is something I practice it can be real creepy if you do it alone without anyone,but I had holy water and a shower,it worked just not as good as Traumas church does.They are very picky about who they let out.But anyway if yall got some dead ones that you think ended up in hell and they weren't too bad put their names here me and trauma will take a baptism for em..............if you guys believe..........

[Don Seer]

interesting concept.

but i consider it an infringment upon a persons rights if they wouldnt have wanted it.
 
but on the flip-side... if it helps you personally feel that the person has gone to a better place then maybe its a good thing.

[Miss NWA Whoorider]

okay I see what your saying but you gotta pray before you do this,then God reveals where the person is............now rather they want to stay in hell is entirely upto them...........but this is something that trauma takes quite seriusly and so do I.This is no easy task to take on.....

[Don Seer]

if you believe in god and heaven & hell that is

you have to respect peoples beliefs before they died.. even praying 'to check' is a step too far in my book.

[Miss NWA Whoorider]

okay so some bloke who does not believe in heaven or hell gets tossed in hell......................what are we supposed to do mind our business?go about this like the guy is not there?WTF?If you had someone die and I know you have seer,wouldn't you like to know they were safe?

[Don Seer]

yup you mind your own business, if it wasnt their wish then you shouldnt be meddling.

dont you understand that you cannot force your beliefs on other people, living or dead?

lets put it to you this way.

say you or a loved one died. now say some well meaning person of another faith.. lets say a nice peaceful faith that worships mother earth as the bringer and giver of life (sounds right up my street.. hey i'm an earth sign (cap) what more can I say ). Now say they were to think it was right that a ritual be performed perhaps with your remains or maybe just some possesions to send the soul back into the earth for re-engergising and some TLC after thre trauma of death before you're reborn. (hey its my faith i can call this shit what i want, if u dont wanna be reborn ya wont be.. great huh! come join.. its free!) now would that be cool?

would you think it right that these people could do this without your consent?

p.s. Can a person that never believed in god nor heaven nor hell their whole life actually go to hell?

[Sub-Z]

hitler was baptised this way lmao,in 1992  i think

[Bigg AG]

hitler was baptised this way lmao,in 1992  i think

was Hitler a Nazi or did he jus creat them? cuzz one of my friends said that he aint a Nazi he just started it...?

[Trauma-san]

Overseer, you don't have the whole story, lemme explain it to you, you'll understand it a little better.

In the bible, in 1st corinthians, Paul is talking to the corinthians via letter.  They had been inquiring, basically asking the prophets who were alive, what Jesus' position would be on different things.  Marriage, long hair, etc, etc.  Since Jesus had left earth, Paul & the other apostles were left in charge to kind of 'dictate' what Jesus would have thought on things, since they had spent so much time with them.

Well, in Corinthians, there's a passage, where Paul says something about the three glories, and mentions two of them, the terestial and celestial.  He then says something about "If there is no baptism for the dead, then why do we baptise the dead?"... which leads you to believe, that at the time, as Paul had just said, for one reason or the other, the christian church (remember this is only a few years/decades after Christ had died) was baptising people AFTER their death.

Mormons believe they have all the answers, they've been 'restored' to them through modern day prophets... anyways, Mormons believe that baptism is essential to salvation, it's one of the only things we have to do on earth to be saved, and go to one of the three glories, the telestial, terrestial, and celestial heavens.  It's a mormon belief, that on earth we are ignorant, and after we die, we'll see things more clearly, since we won't have worldy ideas and worries to be concerned about... we'll understand where we came from, and since Mormons believe that Christ is the savior, etc. and believe the biblical history of religions, Mormons believe at death, everyone will realize that they should have been a christian all along.  

If you died without being baptised, then you'll of course realize this, and WANT to be baptised.  

Mormons believe they have the power to baptise people in proxy, basically in temples around the world, mormons are baptised in the name of a dead ancestor, mormons spend thousands of hours a year researching genealogical records just to get names and relations of anyone they possibly can, they feel they're doing these people a service, by allowing them to get into heaven, even if they were a member of another faith, or weren't religious.

It's not forced upon them, however; it's understood that the dead ancestor has the right to reject or accept the baptism; so if someone died, and didn't WANT to be baptised, they wouldn't have to accept the baptism in their proxy.

But if someone died and was lamenting that they weren't able to be baptised into Christ's church, eventually, someone would be baptised in their proxy, and they could accept that baptism, and go on to their glory in heaven.  Mormons believe that when you die, you go to sort of a spirit world, almost like a waiting room, awaiting judgement day (which according to the bible, won't occur for ANYONE until the savior returns).  So, if people are in the spirit world, they're kind of just lingering around waiting to get baptised.  It's believed that Jesus went to the spirit world, and set up his church there, with missionaries, priests, etc. when he was dead for 3 days.  

Mormons also believe that not just anyone can baptise you.  They believe there is an unbroken line of priesthood lineology back to Adam, the first priest in Christ's church (Yes, Christ's church), they believe after the apostles died, the line of authority was broken, with true christian priests returning only when Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in the 1800's... they believe that Smith was ordained a priest in person by Peter, Paul, and James, resurrected.  

I'm not positive, but I BELIEVE the only heaven you need to be baptised to get into is the Celestial, the highest level as Paul mentioned, where God resides.  Even adulterers and suicide victims are in the lowest level of heaven.  Mormons generally believe almost everyone goes on to some sort of glory after death.  

So it's not forced upon them, they genuinely believe that they are allowed to accept it or reject it.  Mormons also believe that before we all came to earth, that 1/3 of the celestial kingdom decided to leave with Lucifer and start his kingdom... so they believe that some people who have died after living on earth may want to reject salvation & baptism, also.

It's very, very complicated, but very intriguing if you get into it.  The depth of the mormon religion is pretty crazy, either it's what they say it is, or whoever created it is pretty intelligent.  

P.S. , yes, Hitler was baptised, most of the bad bad people that ever lived were, lol.  Sometimes people get mad that their ancestors got baptised, and petition the church to remove their records.  

[Miss NWA Whoorider]

see overseer I told you this was deep...........I asked could I help,thats how I got involved...........but only certain people can do it,and it is kinda an odd thing cuz you can feel the passage of a soul.........

[·SiNiStEr·]

okay I see what your saying but you gotta pray before you do this,then God reveals where the person is............now rather they want to stay in hell is entirely upto them...........but this is something that trauma takes quite seriusly and so do I.This is no easy task to take on.....

keep tellin yaself that ruthless

[Don Seer]

^ thats why i stopped posting on this thread.

because I don't believe you understand my position.

[Miss NWA Whoorider]

actually I do understand your postion people have rights,and I agree with that but do you understand that if someone was in hell or a waiting place and wanted this chance that it would be a good thing............and as trauma said they don't have to take it..not if they don't want too.its not being forced man........there is a choice involved....

[Trauma-san]

Hmm, I think I understand it, maybe I'm wrong.  You think it's being forced on people who didn't choose to believe while they were alive, or had other religions.  Mormons don't see it that way, though, they feel that the person has the choice even in death, it's not being forced upon them, it's just something being done that they can accept as legit or not.  If they're muslim and don't want to be baptised, they don't have to accept it, so I see nothing harmful being done.