Author Topic: 10 Commandments thingy in Alabama  (Read 140 times)

Trauma-san

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10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« on: August 26, 2003, 11:20:26 PM »
What do yall think about this?  I have a few thoughts on it.

1. I think the monument was put up as a publicity stunt by the judge, he had already had problems with a plaque somewhere else, and had the statue erected after he took his new higher position.  

2. Publicity stunt or not, I don't see what the big problem is.  The law buildings of the United States frequently picture Greek Gods on the outside, because the greeks & romans are known for their judicial systems.  It's not saying that the united states believes in a polytheistic religion, it's just honoring what has come before.  The 10 commandments are famous for being the judicial code of the jewish people, for centuries.  It's again not saying that we impose these rules on people, or that we're judging people against these 10 commandments.. nobodys' ever gone to jail for taking the lord's name in vain, nobody's ever gone to jail for coveting thy neighbor's wife.  We don't enforce the 10 commandments, just like our judicial system doesn't require people to sacrifice lambs to roman gods.  It's decorative, it was donated with public money to a public building, and isn't meant to say that the United States legal system supports only the jewish and christian religions, where does it get that from?

Also, by saying that no christian or jewish monument can be erected in a public building, isn't that in effect passing laws that limit our freedom to express belief in the christian or jewish religion?  Isn't that specifically word for word illegal according to the bill of rights?  Doesn't the constitution start out "We the people.... one nation, under god" ?  

The way I see it, athiests also have a monument in the courthouse, it's the empty air surrounding the christian monument.  Maybe we should replace it with something....
« Last Edit: August 26, 2003, 11:21:20 PM by Scorpion »
 

JTSimon

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2003, 11:50:47 PM »
 ::)
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2003, 12:24:39 AM »
scorpion... plz post some background info...
 

Trauma-san

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2003, 07:02:49 AM »
In Alabama, they erected a while back a monument to the 10 commandments in the federal courthouse.  It's just a rock, with a book laying on top of it, that's opened, and has the 10 commandments displayed on it.  Democrats (I'm sorry guys, but it's true, lol) have been fighting for months now to have the monument removed, saying it's unconstitutional to have a religious monument in the building.  They're tearing it down today.  
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2003, 07:10:28 AM »
I'd agree its a bit overboard to tear it down.. I'd have no problem with it.

Wonder what these people would make of a statue of Venus holding some scales (like Libra..).. still a religious thing? or is that roman thing ok because its not an active religion.

Shame your bitter/cynical remark about atheists destroys any hope of being able to talk rationally on this issue.

Does this show the state of intolerance between people holding different opinions in the US right now?
 

Trauma-san

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2003, 07:17:35 AM »
Yes, that's how ALL OF AMERICA IS.


Just kidding.

Really, O, it's a joke.  Look at it from my perspective.  You have liberals attacking everything that's even percieved as being conservative, for instance, established religion.  To them, ANYTHING doing with religion is bad.  The hypocrisy of removing a jewish monument on the inside of the building & leaving a roman god's 'monument' on the outside of the building is stunning, to me.  So, why don't they go all the way?  Remove the libra statues, remove the air from the building since nothingness is akin to athiesm.  It's bullshit.  Why do people even care anymore? I wouldn't care if they erected a statue of muhammad, or of hindu gods, or whatever.  

See, people today think that Freedom of _________ (fill in the blank) means the absense of any of it.  Freedom of religion doesn't mean there's NO religions, it means you can be of any religion you want.  You have a freedom of speech, that doesn't mean you can say anything and get away with it, that means you can say anything, and there will be consequences.  Freedom to bear arms means you CAN own guns, but you still have to use them responsibly.  Freedom of press means you can say whatever you want, but you will be held accountable for your views and opinions.  I blame it on hippies.  
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2003, 07:27:09 AM »
lol @ hippies...

funnily... i'm in a debate where i dragged hippies into the argument (I know you know that weirdo non-rap board I cause trouble at.. keeps my sonning skills in line :))

and i know it was a joke.. ;)

not all atheists think like you think they do, but sadly, this sounds to me almost an anti-religious act - rather than an act of 'equality/fairness'.

personally i'd be happy for any religious icons from any faith which are symbolic of 'justice'... hell put 'captain america', superman and maybe even batman up for all i care.

 

KING VerbalAssaulta

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2003, 02:01:54 PM »
tear the damn thing down...its a bunch of bull shit anyway...made up thousands of years ago to govern less intelligent people...and to think there are still some who believe it  ::)
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2003, 02:11:14 PM »
but if its symbolism helps control the followers.. wouldnt it be better to leave it there?

.. and put up batman  :D
 

infinite59

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2003, 09:36:56 AM »


Also, by saying that no christian or jewish monument can be erected in a public building, isn't that in effect passing laws that limit our freedom to express belief in the christian or jewish religion?  Isn't that specifically word for word illegal according to the bill of rights?  Doesn't the constitution start out "We the people.... one nation, under god" ?  



In theory, you can only practice your religion in this country as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of other citizens.  Other citizens have the right not to believe in God, and therefore the Supreme Court desicion makes sense in relation to the Constitutional framework of this country.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2003, 09:38:00 AM by Ibrahim Islam »
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2003, 10:25:29 AM »
just a sidenote.. infinite..

what symbols does islam have for justice?
 

bundybone

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2003, 12:09:31 PM »
Isn't there a "trias politica" in the united states? I know there is in the netherlands, which means power of church, law and politics have to be seperated. It would only seem logical to remove the statue then........
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2003, 02:05:15 PM »
hmm thats interesting, i never heard that, but since the constitution changes there, and this i guess it makes perfect sense.

its not like the 10 commandments there meant anything about power.. tho?
 

Don Jacob

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2003, 05:00:50 PM »
that jacked that it has to come down. i mean really if there was a priest there and they were trying to convert people who walked in the courtroom.....THAT would be one thing, but it's not. it's just a representation of justice.  if this is going to be removed from the courthouse just because people don't agree with it. anytime a middle easterner walks in with a turban on....they must take it off....any time a jew walks in a court house with a yamaka or whatever they're called they must take it off.......that shit is exactly that bullshit


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Kaidy

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2003, 07:22:22 PM »
well, look. Only two of the Commandments have any relation to U.S. Law: Thou Shalt Not Steal and Thou Shalt Not Kill. All the rest don't really belong in a house of justice because they have no relation to or affect upon it.

I think people are reading too much into this.
 

PinkTowelGirl

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2003, 07:25:16 PM »
who ever owns the building has the right to have it... even if it the state government.. or whatever... lol
 

Trauma-san

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2003, 08:48:48 PM »
tear the damn thing down...its a bunch of bull shit anyway...made up thousands of years ago to govern less intelligent people...and to think there are still some who believe it  ::)

See, you're still a child, because you don't have the ability to think like someone else does, or see things from any perspective but your own.  That's why you can't be fair about anything.  Your comments are useless.  
 

Trauma-san

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2003, 08:50:17 PM »


Also, by saying that no christian or jewish monument can be erected in a public building, isn't that in effect passing laws that limit our freedom to express belief in the christian or jewish religion?  Isn't that specifically word for word illegal according to the bill of rights?  Doesn't the constitution start out "We the people.... one nation, under god" ?  



In theory, you can only practice your religion in this country as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of other citizens.  Other citizens have the right not to believe in God, and therefore the Supreme Court desicion makes sense in relation to the Constitutional framework of this country.

By that logic, though, as I pointed out... you would have to ban every religious representation within the building, which includes the greek gods on the outside, and the athiest nothingness within the building.  You're looking at it from an impossible view point.
 

Trauma-san

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Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2003, 08:54:04 PM »
You guys aren't clearly seeing this.  

First off, to me it's not important either way.  I don't care if people have monuments to the 10 commandments, they're meant to be taught, by a preacher, a monument isn't going to help teach them or anything.  

The purpose of the monument was just a representation of justice, like the greek gods on the outside of the building.  Since the american government doesn't enforce hardly any of the 10 commandments like Mr. Loc said, how can a statue with them listed be viewed as a endorsement of any particular religion by the government?  It's simply a pretty monument, that represents one symbol of justice.  The 10 commandments have been a symbol of justice for thousands of years, just as like O said, Venus & the scales have been a symbol of justice for thousands of years.

I don't care if there's statues of Venus, so why would anybody care if there's a statue of the 10 commandments?  
 

Don Seer

Re:10 Commandments thingy in Alabama
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2003, 12:14:02 AM »
i guess the difference is that the roman gods arent worshipped anymore? :)

either that or that they have masonic significance.  ;)