Author Topic: Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.  (Read 424 times)

UnstoppableForce

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2003, 11:46:21 AM »
"Well Judaism had all kinds of people convert into it yet it was originated Monotheisticly."

This is true for Christianity and Islam as well. So, since some pagans converted to Judaism, does that mean Judaism has "pagan roots"? No.

You claimed at first Islam was a paganic religion, and Muhammed brought that change. What I'm saying is, there was NO ISLAM prior to Muhammed. Those were just what you claimed they were, pagans. Just because pagans converted to these religions doesn't make the religions have pagan roots. Because with that argument, your statement would be true for almost all religions.
 

UnstoppableForce

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2003, 12:02:29 PM »
People did worship God in the Kabah, but later those people started worsipping idols,icons,etc. However, that Kabah was in the city of Ur, not Mecca. That Kabah was destroyed (the idols and icons were destroyed by Abraham himself, furious at the townspeople for worshipping the idols). Then, after Abraham had his two sons, he "rebuilt" the Kabah at a different location (Mecca...in those days called Bacca).

So, I guess I can see why you thought that about the paganic roots, but the "story" shows that it wasn't even the same Kabah.
 

Maestro Minded

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2003, 05:16:50 PM »
Christianity and Judaism had pagans convert, does that mean Judaism and Christianity have paganic origins? NO

Muhammed said to the pagans that it was wrong for them to worship all these gods, and told them about the one, almighty god. To Jews and Christians he simply said that he was the last of God's messengers. Islam, Christianity, and Judaism have nothing to do with paganism just because pagans converted into the religions. The 3 religions are tied together by the prophets and the one god. Jews accept all prophets before Jesus, Christians accept the same prophets including Jesus, and Muslims accept the same prophets Jews do in addition to Jesus+Muhammed. We believe the Torah and Bible to be holy books, but we consider them to be incomplete because of the exclusion of Muhammed's being. Also, the Bible has been re-written so many times that it's lost some truth. The Quran hasn't and can't be revised (I'm not sure, but I think this is true for the Torah as well)
one minor correction... Islam only believe in the Bible's old testament, which is equal to the Torah... the new testament is not a religious book, it have been written only by humans and have not God directly or indirectly involved in any way...
 

UnstoppableForce

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2003, 05:24:30 PM »
Let me clarify. Islam does accept Jesus is what I meant, and that's not included in the Old Testament. So we believe in the Torah and Jesus. :)
 

Maestro Minded

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2003, 06:07:15 PM »
Let me clarify. Islam does accept Jesus is what I meant, and that's not included in the Old Testament. So we believe in the Torah and Jesus. :)

aight.. i see your point
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re:Modern-day Jews DO descend from biblical time Israelites.
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2003, 11:31:05 AM »
"Well Judaism had all kinds of people convert into it yet it was originated Monotheisticly."

This is true for Christianity and Islam as well. So, since some pagans converted to Judaism, does that mean Judaism has "pagan roots"? No.

You claimed at first Islam was a paganic religion, and Muhammed brought that change. What I'm saying is, there was NO ISLAM prior to Muhammed. Those were just what you claimed they were, pagans. Just because pagans converted to these religions doesn't make the religions have pagan roots. Because with that argument, your statement would be true for almost all religions.

Never said it was a paganic religion, I said it originated from a paganic religion, again people who converted into Judaism aren't considered Jews acording to the Jewish Religion, they are considered Giors(Converted Jews- underlining the absence of Judasim in their blood) The Kabaa stone, no meter how many times it was replaced\ siwtched by a diffrened one had those pre-Muhamed Muslims worshiping it much later(the religious meaning of the Kabaa stone never changed as far as it concenred Muslims both from the pre-Muhamed and post-Muhamed times), Long after the times of Abraham, and closer to Muhamed's reforms' times.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?