Author Topic: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?  (Read 506 times)

infinite59

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Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« on: August 04, 2002, 05:48:56 PM »
Why not be Jewish.  Jesus was a Jew.  So if you really want to follow his example, why not be Jewish?  This is what I don't understand about Christianity.  It's like the trinity, no matter how many times it's explained to me, I don't understand it.

1.  How could Jesus have been a human inside the creation, praying to the creator, preaching about the creator, and at the same time be the creator?

2.  If you wanted to follow the example of Jesus, why not be Jewish like he was?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

infinite59

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2002, 08:57:59 PM »
Don't everybody answer at one time.
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Don Seer

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2002, 03:22:37 AM »
Its not addressed to me, but i'll answer what I think.

Jews follow the original old testament based faith which Jesus himself practice.

Christians follow the old testament, but they recognise Jesus as the son of god, and follow the writings of his disciples adding the new testament to this. IMO they revised the faith and moved it forwards. removing outdated things like penile mutilation (sorry circumcision) and the ban on the eating of swine (most jews dont even know why this is).

1) good question.
2) leads to another question (3)
3) Did jesus acutally found christiaity or did his followers create it afterwards?
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infinite59

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2002, 03:51:09 AM »
Quote

3) Did jesus acutally found christiaity or did his followers create it afterwards?


Exactly.  How could he have founded Christianity, if he was a Jew?
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2002, 04:58:40 AM »
Of course he founded Christianity

He recognised that the Jews had got everything fucked up, the Pharisees were parosites eating away at what God intended, so Jesus founded a new Church. headed by the Rock, St Peter (the first Pope).

4) How many wives did Mohammad have
5) If he had more than one, was this a breaking of Islamic laws and beliefs?
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Don Seer

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2002, 05:16:52 AM »
not 'of course' anything.

did jesus *actually found it himself* or did his disciples do it in memory of him?
 

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2002, 05:24:54 AM »
One of the Christianity experts will be able to explain more accurately but I'm pretty sure that at one point during the bible Jesus turns to Peter and "You are the rock, and on this rock I build my church"

This indicates Jesus' decision to begin his own church and religion, separate to the Jewish faith.  So the answer is YES, Jesus founded Christianity.

But I am out of my depth on this issue so that could be wrong wait for Trauma to post lol
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infinite59

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2002, 07:07:35 AM »
Quote
Of course he founded Christianity

He recognised that the Jews had got everything fucked up, the Pharisees were parosites eating away at what God intended, so Jesus founded a new Church. headed by the Rock, St Peter (the first Pope).

4) How many wives did Mohammad have
5) If he had more than one, was this a breaking of Islamic laws and beliefs?


Later in life, Muhammad had more then one wife, he did it to bring quarreling tribes together in unity, and he provided for the women equally.  And no, this doesn't go against Islam.
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Don Seer

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2002, 07:10:40 AM »
woooooo sounds like islam may be for me after all  :D (joke)
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2002, 09:54:12 AM »
Quote
One of the Christianity experts will be able to explain more accurately but I'm pretty sure that at one point during the bible Jesus turns to Peter and "You are the rock, and on this rock I build my church"

This indicates Jesus' decision to begin his own church and religion, separate to the Jewish faith.  So the answer is YES, Jesus founded Christianity.

But I am out of my depth on this issue so that could be wrong wait for Trauma to post lol


Yup, Jesus founded it and the disciples helped spread the word to others.
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2002, 07:28:17 AM »
1. The trinity doesn't exist, God, Jesus, and the Holy ghost are all seperate... the confusion comes from quotes from Jesus himself, in the new testament. Several times, he refers to himself and his father and the holy ghost, as being 1.  For example,

John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one"

John 14:10 - "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works"

It appears with these two verses (and more) that Jesus is saying that he's his father on earth, they're the same person... he actually even says "I and my father are one".  However, by reading the ENTIRE bible, not just a choice select few verses, it's quite obvious that the entire time, he's speaking of his father in the third person, or actually speaking and praying to his father.  The key is in several verses in John, where he prays to his father, hoping that the disciples will become 'one' like he is one with his father... he's obviously talking about 'one' in mission, and in mind... there is also a lot of symbolism about joining the mission of christ, and becoming 'one' with him and his father, and the holy ghost (In the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy ghost literally means that you are doing the same thing (being one) that the father, son, and holy ghost would do).  

Read this, it totally clears it up.

John, Chapter 13, Verses 9 through 23
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



------------------------------------------------------------
It's clearly obvious that Christ is talking about being one in mind, in mission, in goal, not actually being 1 person... Honestly, guys, really, really, really look into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, we understand this stuff with such clearity that it's uplifting to be members of the church.  That's the main reason I think it's 'the' true christian church (not that other christian churches are bad or anything, just not totally correct)... the clearity of the doctrine is unbelievable, and totally 100% supported by the bible and the book of mormon.  Joseph Smith was a genius, ever single confusing part of the bible he understood perfectly, and he was only 14 years old.  

Anyways, I think that it's obvious the trinity is non existent, but instead means that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Ghost think the same, and have the same purpose.  Here's 1 last quote that proves, again, that they are seperate.. at Jesus's baptism, all 3 were present! How could all three of them be in the same place, if they were the same person?  

Matthew 3:16-17

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There you have it.  Jesus in the water, the holy ghost descending from heaven, and the Father speaking from heaven, saying he was well pleased in his son.  (Notice he doesnt' say he's proud of his son, pride would be a sin.)

Why ANYBODY believes in the trinity is beyond me.  Next, we'll discuss who founded the church, and the Jewish/Christian thing.
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2002, 07:41:31 AM »
Could I just intercede at this point and say, that I am sure there are people who can make an equally substansive argument for the trinity using factual evidence as Trauma has done.  However I'm not sure if anyone on the board is schooled enough in christian theology to accomplish this (Retarded Moron and Nostromo maybe - but i don't know if they believe in the trinity).  

Also the comment "How could all three of them be in the same place, if they were the same person?"

belies a misunderstanding on Trauma's part of what the Trinity actually is.  

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2002, 08:23:47 AM »
Alright, this is a tougher one.  You have to understand that God intended it this way from the beginning, like most religions believe, this is just one big cycle.  We're right towards the end of it now, but we existed before we came to earth as spirits, and we will exist after we leave earth, with a spirit, AND the body we gained on earth.  Even the evil will be ressurected, because by coming to earth, you were promised a body by god. In heaven we will have the pleasures of the flesh, and in hell, we will have the pains of the flesh.  

When man was first put on earth, God knew that by giving them freedom, and leaving them away from him, they would sin.  He knew adam and eve would do the one thing they were forbidden to do, that's why he called the tree the knowledge of good and evil!  It  was designed that way the whole time, without adam and eve physically dying, birth wouldn't be necessary, and without birth, the earth would never be populated.  It was all a big plan, god wasn't deceived, he knew it would happen.  All things are done to accomplish god's plan.  

So, after Adam and Eve transgressed against god, they were made mortal, and would die.  They had two strikes against them... 1, they were going to die, and 2, they had sinned.  So they could not get back into heaven.

How do we overcome these things? By paying for them.  God is fair, so we have to fairly pay for our sins, to regain admittance into heaven, after our earthly growth and experience is over.  Since we can't possibly attone for our own sins, an immortal (someone who can't be killed) person was needed for it.  That way, they could be punished forever if need be for the sins of the world, and attone for every single one of them (If I tried it, being weak, I would die before I even accounted for my own sins).  The entire OLD testament prepared the way for christ... it was shown through sacrifices (always of the first born, best of the flock) that man continued to sin, and the sacrificies weren't enough to atone for it.  The 10 commandments, if lived, would get everybody back to heaven, but if you break 1, you've sinned, and can't be with god.  So you have to sacrifice something to pay for it.  It's a never ending cycle of Sacrifice, and breaking commandments.  

Why did god give us the 10 commandments, then?  If Christ was the redeemer, why not just send him?  

Because the whole bible, and the whole history of people since Adam, is a LESSON to all of us.  We are "One" in purpose, again, to get back to god.  First, we were born, as adam, and eve, and started transgressing.  To Abraham, he gave the Abrahamic Covenant, to teach us to believe in the lord, to have faith.  He told Abraham (by an angel) to have faith in the lord, and kill his son, and all posterity would be his.  Abraham couldn't understand how killing his 1 son would bring him children, but he had such faith in the lord, that he was going to do it anyways.  The lord recognized his faith, spared his son, and founded the 12 tribes of Israel through him.  All saved people on earth who return to their father will be of Abraham's lineage, we're all Sons of Abraham, because he showed faith.  For 2000 years, the Abrahamic covenant stood on the earth.

After that, God freed, through Moses, the jewish people.  Why JUST the Jewish people?  Because again, God was teaching all of us, through the actions of 1 people... He gave the jewish people, who had been faithfully praying to god since Abraham's time, 10commandments.  Why?  To teach them repentance... now, they had faith, and were being taught about repention, and sacrifice.  They were preparing the entire world for Christ's gift of redemption to all of us.

Flash forward 1500 years.  Faith has dwindled, and Repentence has dwindled.  The priesthood has been almost totally lost from the world (John The Baptist had it, however)... The Mosaic law isn't working, because it isn't intended to.  God knows man will still fall short, even though he has proved himself for their faith (through the miracles of the old testament) and even though he has given them the laws they need to return to heaven, and a way to repent (sacrifice) t0 get there.  It's still not enough, so God plays his trump card, designed from the beginning of the earth.

He sends his son, Christ, who's immortal, he can't be killed.  He's crucified, by his own people, just like prophecized, as a big lesson to the jewish people.  Christ is punished infinitely to account for all sins ever while in the garden of Gessimine, and it doesn't kill him.. later, he lets his body die on the cross.  By being punished infinitely, we're all saved (even those who came before him) because he paid the price for us being sinners.  

Now, we have 1 other obstacle still to overcome, Death.  We will all die, since we're mortal.  God has promised us, and shown us, through his son, that we will all be ressurrected after a time, and our bodies will rejoin our souls, so we can stand and be judged.  Easy as that.  

Jesus changed the mosaic law, just like Moses changed the Abrahamic Covenant.  That's why you shouldn't be Jewish... Jews believe that the saviour is STILL coming, to change the mosaic law.  It says in Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2002, 08:24:00 AM »
That says right there that everyone that is a christian is a descendant of Abraham, who was Hebrew.  It also says that there is no Jew or Greek, we're all the same, we're all 1 people in Christ, becuase that's how it was designed from the beginning, and he has already paid the price for our lives.

You don't have to believe in christ, because it's true, whether you believe it or not... you can't just pick and choose whether it's true for you or not.  It just is.  After you pass on, our veil will be lifted, and we'll see how everything truly is.  We'll all understand the mission of christ, how the world was structured, etc. and we'll all be 1, sons and daughters of god.  We'll all be judged according to our works.  There won't be religions after we're dead, just Christ, and if we choose to follow christ, we will be saved, if we choose to rebel against christ, we will be rejected into Darkness with Satan and the others who rejected Christ.  It's not about being IGNORANT of christ, as members of other religions are... they just don't know.  It's about KNOWNING christ is the saviour, and of God, and rejecting his message.  The only person that would do that would be a follower of Satan, because that's the same as actually doing evil.

So don't worry about being 'Tricked' into denying god, or being 'tricked' into the wrong religion.  If you are good at heart, you will be judged accordingly in heaven.  We'll all be together as Christians after death.  That's why I refuse to say 1 negative thing about Muhammad, or Confucious, or Ghandi, or Buddah, or Sikh's, or Jain's, because we're all equal, we're all children of god, and after our life is over, we will all know the full story.  Maybe I've been blessed to have a few more things revealed to me on earth than other religions, but that doesn't make me any better of a person.  Muhammad was 20 times the man I was, and he's not christian, I know that just by reading about him.  What god would glorify me more than him just because I lived in a part of the world where Christianity was popular, and I figured it out a little better?  We need to focus on the similarities of our religions, not on the differences, and who's right, and wrong.  Latter Day Saints believe if you kill yourself, you'll go to heaven.  There's levels of heaven, and even the lowest (where suicide victims would go) is more glorious than anything on earth.  It's for people like Muhammad, and Jesus, and Ghandi, and Budda, and Moses, and Adam & Eve, and other righteous people that the Celestial Kingdom, the highest heaven, is reserved.  We can all get there, but even if we fall short, we'll still be glorified in a lesser heaven.  It's like having 2 scoops of Ice cream instead of 3 scoops.  Or talking to god 4 times a week instead of 5.  I'm sick of seeing Christians tell muslims their going to hell.  That's rediculous.  

So, to answer the question, Christ was a jew, but he was *The* Jew with the authority to change judaism, just like Abraham and Moses before him.  The only way back to the father is through him, the 'church' is Christ's.  All church's are christs, some just do not fully understand his teachings, or misinterpret them, or even deny him completely, but all church's that are attempting to do what they perceive to be god's will are of god, and God loves all of us, not just the christians.  Jews, at the time of Christ, should have all accepted his teachings.  They didn't for various reasons, and now christian churches are jewish also, but the original jews are basically 'non christian' jews.  All christians are jews, because it's the most updated (by christ) version of judaism.  

As for Peter, he was the man.  Peter comes from the greek word Petros, which means Small Rock.  Christ himself was the "rock" the foundation of the church of god.  1st corinthians 10:4 says

14 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ

When Christ meets Simon (peter) he says John 1:42

And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

So, christ NAMED Simon "Cephas" which means "A Stone" and he was also called "Peter" which means Petros, a Small Stone (As compared to the 'big stone' christ himself).

Later, when Christ was at the last meal, the sacrament supper, he said Matthew 16:18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Later, Christ taught Peter the ultimate lesson, when Peter denyed him thrice, and Christ predicted it, then looked at Peter as the Cock Crowed.  That's how he hardened Peter into being the one to carry his message forward after that.  Eventually, Peter's followers created the Catholic church, and over the centuries, corrupted Christ & Peter's original message.  So, Christ was Jewish, he DID found his church,and he DID tell Peter he would be the one to carry it on.  
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2002, 08:26:36 AM »
Quote
Could I just intercede at this point and say, that I am sure there are people who can make an equally substansive argument for the trinity using factual evidence as Trauma has done.  However I'm not sure if anyone on the board is schooled enough in christian theology to accomplish this (Retarded Moron and Nostromo maybe - but i don't know if they believe in the trinity).  

Also the comment "How could all three of them be in the same place, if they were the same person?"

belies a misunderstanding on Trauma's part of what the Trinity actually is.  




The trinity does not exist.  They are all 3 seperate.  What other way is their to 'misunderstand' that?  Don't fling accusations if you can't back up your reasons.  That's like me saying "The Trinity doesn't exist" and not providing any reasons.  Instead, I backed it up with factual information... unfortunately, you disagree, even though I 100% logically explained why it's false doctrine.  

We are talking about FAITh, here, though, so if you believe it, even though it doesn't seem logical, I can understand that.  I believe things that aren't 100% logical too, like the miracles in the old testament.  Peace~
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2002, 08:33:02 AM »
More proof, simple proof that there is no Trinity.  Christ says in Mark chapter 13 many revelations about the end of the world.  he ends with

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He says right there that he doesn't know when the end of the world will come, but his father does.  If they were the same, they would both know, correct?

In Matthew 24:36, another account, he says after being asked when the second coming (His second coming) will be

36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Again, saying that only his father knows something, that if he were his father, he would know.  

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2002, 08:41:19 AM »
But they're not the same!!

The Trinity is the three together, but they're not clones and don't have to do/believe the same things

I don't want to sidetrack you because I would like to hear what you have to say on the Founding of Christianity
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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2002, 09:00:11 AM »
Ok Trauma, I've done some research and I got this from http://www.aomin.org/trinitydef.html

"The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows:

1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.

2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.

3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity---that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. "

Now I think this next bit applies to you Trauma:

"We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this!"

I know you don't like cut and paste but I had to ok




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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2002, 09:09:15 AM »
Oh, I just did, LOL.  ^^^

You just said they're not the same.  They're three different things... Why the confusion? They are what they say they are, God, the son, and the Holy ghost.

History of Christians:

1. Christ flips everything, from the inside out.  He led a peacefull revolution, John Lennon style, by trying to turn the hearts of men.  John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Christ set everyting straight, but like I said, it's all a bigger plan, a work in progress.  His goal was to teach, and to be punished for the sins of man.  He did all that, and now he's in heaven, glorified beside his father.  He set an example for all of us, formed his church, had his 12 baptised, and gave them the priesthood (the authority to act in his name), and then died.  Peter was shaky, and through the 'deny christ three times' thing, became like a rock, and carried Christ's word on, along with the other apostles.  

Matthew 28:11

11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.

14 And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.

15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

-------------------------------------------------------

Here it tells that after Christ was resurrected, the guards were told by the elders in the city to say that his disciples stole the body.  That's the main argument against the 'resurrection', which would of course prove Jesus as the christ.  However, them stealing the body would be impossible, for the simple fact that all the disciples would not deny christ, and were eventually martyred for it.  If they had stolen the body, he wouldn't have been christ, and they would have been living a lie all the years after his death that they taught his gospel.  No man would do that.  

So, the disciples spread out, and teach, like Christ commanded them to.  Eventually, they're all gone, and we have record of them in the new testament writing letters to people of different cities about the christian faith, because being with Christ for 3 years, they knew a lot of things that aren't written in the bible.  Eventually, the word kept getting grandfathered, and mis translated, until today we have a bible that isn't the same as when originally wrote, although it is still certainly god's word.  Corrupt popes, and kings, and etc. etc. took verses they didnt' like out, formed their own churches, etc. etc. until the catholic church, which undenyably at heart was founded by Jesus christ (although it wasn't called that then) became so screwed up that even they didn't know what they had changed.  Basically, today, the catholic church admits it's screwed up, but they're claim to fame is that they are 'THE' church Christ and Peter started.

In the 1500's, you had the Protestant reform movements, where they wanted to 'reform' the catholic church.  This is where the methodists, baptists, presbyterians, etc. etc. etc. all come from.  They all say they know what's wrong with the catholic church, and all have their own 'fixes' to right what they perceive the catholic church screwed up.  Unfortuantely, there's about 1000 of them, and they all have different views of what's wrong and missing from the bible, and misinterpreted, and what the Catholic church does that's wrong, and etc. etc etc.  

In 1823, you have Joseph Smith who starts the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, this is a Restored church.  He claims to everyone that God and Christ appeared to him, along with Moses, Peter, Paul, and James on various occasions, and told him what the church was missing, and things that were no longer in the bible.  Everybody says he's crazy, but he produces a book, that he claims, holds record of a jewish family that came to america years ago, and kept a record, like the bible, of their experiences here in America, just like the bible records experiences in Israel and Egypt.  So, you've got the book of Mormon, which is pretty amazing if you read it.  It says Christ visited america after he was crucified to visit the jewish tribe here, and it leaves the door open that maybe he visited the lost tribes of Israel, too.  Mormons believe the bible, and the book of mormon, together hold all the information you need to get back to heaven, because the book of mormon wasn't corrupted by the catholic church like the bible was (Smith said the book of mormon was translated from ancient gold plates he was led to by an angel that he had hid on the Hill Cumorrah in New York centuries ago).  

So, you got the original, corrupted church, the reformed churches who all choose what they wanted to change about the original church's doctrine, and the mormon restored church, who claim god told them what their church should be.  

That's pretty much all I know about forming christian churches, LOL.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

infinite59

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2002, 09:39:57 AM »
Yo.. I'm just now entering back into this thread..... Trauma posted some real interesting ish man, I briefly looked over it and I'm feelin what he's saying, I got alot of reading ahead of me though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2002, 07:11:31 AM »
Quote
Ok Trauma, I've done some research and I got this from http://www.aomin.org/trinitydef.html

"The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows:

1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.

2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.

3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity---that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. "

Now I think this next bit applies to you Trauma:

"We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this!"

I know you don't like cut and paste but I had to ok







Everything you quoted said that they're seperate.  I don't get where they're "1" .  Explain that part to me, please.  
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Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2002, 08:02:49 AM »
My understanding always was that they are three figures linked together to make a trinity.

Like Tray Deee, Goldie Loc and Snoop together are Tha Eastsidaz, but they are also three individual artists.

This is the only belief I really have in the Trinity.  People look too much into it IMO.
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Trauma-san

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2002, 08:17:50 AM »
Oh, well then I agree with that, then, as long as you're not saying they're the same thing.  I think they're 3 seperate things, that don't have the same minds, bodies, etc. Peace~
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Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2002, 10:29:31 AM »
LoL

There's a certain irony in the fact that we've spent 20 posts arguing only to discover we believe the same thing
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »