Author Topic: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?  (Read 752 times)

Trauma-san

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2002, 08:33:02 AM »
More proof, simple proof that there is no Trinity.  Christ says in Mark chapter 13 many revelations about the end of the world.  he ends with

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

He says right there that he doesn't know when the end of the world will come, but his father does.  If they were the same, they would both know, correct?

In Matthew 24:36, another account, he says after being asked when the second coming (His second coming) will be

36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

Again, saying that only his father knows something, that if he were his father, he would know.  

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2002, 08:41:19 AM »
But they're not the same!!

The Trinity is the three together, but they're not clones and don't have to do/believe the same things

I don't want to sidetrack you because I would like to hear what you have to say on the Founding of Christianity
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2002, 09:00:11 AM »
Ok Trauma, I've done some research and I got this from http://www.aomin.org/trinitydef.html

"The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows:

1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.

2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.

3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity---that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. "

Now I think this next bit applies to you Trauma:

"We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this!"

I know you don't like cut and paste but I had to ok




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2002, 09:09:15 AM »
Oh, I just did, LOL.  ^^^

You just said they're not the same.  They're three different things... Why the confusion? They are what they say they are, God, the son, and the Holy ghost.

History of Christians:

1. Christ flips everything, from the inside out.  He led a peacefull revolution, John Lennon style, by trying to turn the hearts of men.  John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Christ set everyting straight, but like I said, it's all a bigger plan, a work in progress.  His goal was to teach, and to be punished for the sins of man.  He did all that, and now he's in heaven, glorified beside his father.  He set an example for all of us, formed his church, had his 12 baptised, and gave them the priesthood (the authority to act in his name), and then died.  Peter was shaky, and through the 'deny christ three times' thing, became like a rock, and carried Christ's word on, along with the other apostles.  

Matthew 28:11

11 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done.

12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,

13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.

14 And if this come to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.

15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

-------------------------------------------------------

Here it tells that after Christ was resurrected, the guards were told by the elders in the city to say that his disciples stole the body.  That's the main argument against the 'resurrection', which would of course prove Jesus as the christ.  However, them stealing the body would be impossible, for the simple fact that all the disciples would not deny christ, and were eventually martyred for it.  If they had stolen the body, he wouldn't have been christ, and they would have been living a lie all the years after his death that they taught his gospel.  No man would do that.  

So, the disciples spread out, and teach, like Christ commanded them to.  Eventually, they're all gone, and we have record of them in the new testament writing letters to people of different cities about the christian faith, because being with Christ for 3 years, they knew a lot of things that aren't written in the bible.  Eventually, the word kept getting grandfathered, and mis translated, until today we have a bible that isn't the same as when originally wrote, although it is still certainly god's word.  Corrupt popes, and kings, and etc. etc. took verses they didnt' like out, formed their own churches, etc. etc. until the catholic church, which undenyably at heart was founded by Jesus christ (although it wasn't called that then) became so screwed up that even they didn't know what they had changed.  Basically, today, the catholic church admits it's screwed up, but they're claim to fame is that they are 'THE' church Christ and Peter started.

In the 1500's, you had the Protestant reform movements, where they wanted to 'reform' the catholic church.  This is where the methodists, baptists, presbyterians, etc. etc. etc. all come from.  They all say they know what's wrong with the catholic church, and all have their own 'fixes' to right what they perceive the catholic church screwed up.  Unfortuantely, there's about 1000 of them, and they all have different views of what's wrong and missing from the bible, and misinterpreted, and what the Catholic church does that's wrong, and etc. etc etc.  

In 1823, you have Joseph Smith who starts the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, this is a Restored church.  He claims to everyone that God and Christ appeared to him, along with Moses, Peter, Paul, and James on various occasions, and told him what the church was missing, and things that were no longer in the bible.  Everybody says he's crazy, but he produces a book, that he claims, holds record of a jewish family that came to america years ago, and kept a record, like the bible, of their experiences here in America, just like the bible records experiences in Israel and Egypt.  So, you've got the book of Mormon, which is pretty amazing if you read it.  It says Christ visited america after he was crucified to visit the jewish tribe here, and it leaves the door open that maybe he visited the lost tribes of Israel, too.  Mormons believe the bible, and the book of mormon, together hold all the information you need to get back to heaven, because the book of mormon wasn't corrupted by the catholic church like the bible was (Smith said the book of mormon was translated from ancient gold plates he was led to by an angel that he had hid on the Hill Cumorrah in New York centuries ago).  

So, you got the original, corrupted church, the reformed churches who all choose what they wanted to change about the original church's doctrine, and the mormon restored church, who claim god told them what their church should be.  

That's pretty much all I know about forming christian churches, LOL.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

infinite59

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2002, 09:39:57 AM »
Yo.. I'm just now entering back into this thread..... Trauma posted some real interesting ish man, I briefly looked over it and I'm feelin what he's saying, I got alot of reading ahead of me though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2002, 07:11:31 AM »
Quote
Ok Trauma, I've done some research and I got this from http://www.aomin.org/trinitydef.html

"The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows:

1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.

2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture - the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.

3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity---that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. "

Now I think this next bit applies to you Trauma:

"We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this!"

I know you don't like cut and paste but I had to ok







Everything you quoted said that they're seperate.  I don't get where they're "1" .  Explain that part to me, please.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2002, 08:02:49 AM »
My understanding always was that they are three figures linked together to make a trinity.

Like Tray Deee, Goldie Loc and Snoop together are Tha Eastsidaz, but they are also three individual artists.

This is the only belief I really have in the Trinity.  People look too much into it IMO.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Trauma-san

Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2002, 08:17:50 AM »
Oh, well then I agree with that, then, as long as you're not saying they're the same thing.  I think they're 3 seperate things, that don't have the same minds, bodies, etc. Peace~
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »
 

Jay ay Beee

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Re: Questions to Christians....Jesus, Jewish?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2002, 10:29:31 AM »
LoL

There's a certain irony in the fact that we've spent 20 posts arguing only to discover we believe the same thing
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 04:00:00 PM by 1034398800 »