do you consider rappers musicians?

[NobodyButMe]

i don't.

i consider rappers as poets. all they do, in my opinion, is write something and speak it over music, which isn't necessarily music either, (it's more of a composition). to me, it's really no different than someone reading shakespeare or edgar allan poe over a music track. a musician creates music, (music = different musical notes) with an instrument or with their singing voice.

i'm not saying that i don't like rap or hip hop. i just don't think it's music. honestly, i think anyone can read lyrics over a track and it'll sound very similar to almost anyone. for those that don't sound similar, they just have special attributes which make it sound different because of their speaking or reading style. like pac can read/speak with animation. guru reads/speaks with monotony. nas reads/speaks like he believes. but not everyone can play a guitar over a track. therefore i think rappers are writers. not musicians. maybe poets. but not musicians. what ya'll think?

[Trauma-san]

Yeah, i'd say they were poets too, good observation.  And there aren't many that are much better than amateur poets, you know?  I guess they do have talent, lol, like I can't sit here and say 50 cent isn't talented, but he's no poet, and he sure ain't no musician.

[mauzip]

Producers are musicians, rappers are poets.

[infinite59]

Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music.  Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter.  There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap.  They say one note high and one note low.  

This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys.  Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush.  Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.

[NobodyButMe]

Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys.

give me reasons why dre is a better composer than mozart or beethoven to make the rest of this argument have any validity. dre sits behind a board all day for months before he drops one song, which is produced with electonic (ie: not real) sounds. beethoven makes a composition with real instruments and produces real music. dre's music is electronic, programmed to do loops and programmed into a drum machine. beethoven actually has to pay attention to time signatures and rhythm and beat and melody. dre has a drum machine do it for him...i just don't see how you can say something like that.....please explain

Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush.

you're talking about two different things. van gogh is painter. eminem is a rapper. that's like comparing muhammad ali to michael jordan over who plays a better game of horse.  

Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.

do you think that that has anything to do with the availability of mass communication? example: jesus christ only reached a few hundred people in the stories they tell of in the bible, yet he's obviously had more of an effect on the world than anyone in the history of the world combined. if beethoven or mozart or bach were in our time period, their music would have reached more people.

i'm not trying to talk shit, i just wanna hear your opinions and arguments of why you believe those things you said. i think that this makes for an interesting topic....  

[NobodyButMe]

There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap.  They say one note high and one note low.  

i somewhat agree - but Everyone has melody, tone, rhythm, and pitch when they talk as well. i mean, i got tone and pitch and rhythm when i am telling my friends a funny story. one note high and one note low is nothing special, and it has nothing to do with music. it has to do with how you want to say something....so does that mean that because we all talk with rhythm and tone that we're all great musicians too?

[N-Sane Brain]

^^ I listen to Beethoven's "9th Symphony" more often that to any beat by the Doc That symphony is just unfuckwitable

[7even]

I do consider them musicians.

[Trauma-san]

Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music.  Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter.  There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap.  They say one note high and one note low.  

This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys.  Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush.  Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.

You think you can summarily dismiss all the great artists of all time, but you can't even SPELL their names even close to correctly, it just shows you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you've never even seen a Van Gogh painting.



*Edit - had to respell Van Gogh properly, lol

[SGV]

A Producer, yes. A Rapper no. To me a Musician makes music. Lyrics are not music.

[Jome]

Rappers make music, and are therefore musicians, imo.
Some more than others, e.g. singing/harmonizing on choruses etc.

There's not many rappers that have never sung.. almost everybody did it at one time or another, and some rappers even raps in a singing way, e.g. Bone Thugs.
And rapping is about flowing properly over a beat, so that's a musical challenge right there.

[Darksider]

I do consider them musicians.

[Don Jacob]

Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music.  Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter.  There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap.  They say one note high and one note low.  

This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys.  Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush.  Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.

okay this is where i go off:

you think that rappers are superior cuz they say one not high and one note low?!!!!!! are you fucking retarted? here is a complete list of singers who do the exact same thing ....BUT BETTER!  any of these artists could do what a rapper could do, BUT no rapper could do what they do....


steven tyler: listen to 'dream on'.....on the real only 2% of the male population in this planet could sing that well. and even less could hit that climax note as effectively and frequently and consistantly and as beatiful as steven tyler....oh yeah also, watch the making of "walk this way" with run DMC , it's sad really. Steven tyler is rapping and and freestyling better than Run and Darrell!!!! also go listen to the OG walk this way and it's CLEAR steven tyler flows on that song better than run or dmc! and you want to know what's really sad .........steven tyler has more soul in his voice than many black singers!

chris cornell-like i said above there is only 2 % of the male population that could sing as well and hit notes like steven tyler, and chris cornell is apart of that exclusive club. lsiten to various soundgarden songs and it becomes clear. chris could go from deep and menacing soft and soothing to a high pitched folseto that rivals mariah cary....then after shreeking out a high pitched note he could go back to johnny cash-like low again. that is almost anatomicaly impossible......but he could do it, oh yeah and it doesn't hurt that he can play an instrument effectively at the same time.....something no rapper has done.

freddy mercury- dude was a genius , like steven tyler and chris cornell he possesed a insane range. he also the gift of many vocal techniques that many go to vocal schoool for to learn



all three of these dudes graced mics better than rakim!!!! this is only 3!!! three!!!!! artists of a thousand (literally) that i could name that posses greater vocal skills than any  2 bit rapper!




dre is the  man......but he's only the man in the world of hip hop!! bach beethoveen mozart shcubert , et are masters of all music! most of which composed songs and melodies that were 23 -40 minutes long.......dre composes beats that are 3-6 SECONDS at best long , and loops them for 4 minutes! who's the better composer here!? most of these composers wrote different riffs for a many as a 100 different instruments to play at one time.....that's variations of a song for damn near 40 minutes of music , up to or more than 100 instruments playing efficiently at beatifully at once!!! dre on the other hand samples 3 beats asks collin wolfe or mike elizando to create some bass then scraps together a 3 second  drum loop...........impressive for a hip hop artist but not nearly as impressive as a 100 piece orchestra play many differet things at once and making classic shit that last  over 100 years.....and as far as longevity goes and is concerned, more people are likely to recongnize a bach riff from a few hundred years ago than a dre riff from last year on an obie trice cd! hell i even put dre's most well known song "nuthin but a g thang up against" fur elise.......and more people in the world will recognize and LIKE fur elise. also when you study the notation and structure of a peice (A PEICE!) of music from a bethoveen song it's more complex and artistic than any dre song here's an example



nothin' but a g thang (entire song)

|-7-5-------|----7-5-7-9-7-5---------
|-----7-5-7-|-----------------7-6-5-6
|------------|------------------------
|------------|------------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|------------------------

THA"TS IT!!!!! that is the whole song,this is what took dre probably 2 months to make!

infinite pick up a guitar, this song is soooooo fucking simple even a beginer could play this shit


now for some classical shit:

7----(7-------------------(7-----10-|-10-----10---------------------0-0--12-|
-7----)7--7-----------7----)7-----8--|-10---------------7-8-7^8^7----0-0--0--|
-7--7-(7-----7-----7-------(7--------|-11--------11-----7-7-7-----9--9-11-9--|
-9--9-----9----------------)9--------|-12--12--------------------------------|
-9-----------------------------------|-12------------12----------------------|
-7--------------7--------7-----7-----|-10------------------------------------|

sl.                sl.                                  H P
-----------------7--7--/12-|--12-----12----------8--7--10-7^10^7--|
-----------8--8------------|--12---------12--12--0--5--0-------7--|
-----------9--9--7--7--/9--|--12---------9---9---0-----0----------|
---------------------------|--14--14-----9------------------------|
----/9--7------------------|--14---------10-----------------------|
--0------------------------|--0---0-------------------------------|
                                                  (end Rhy. Fig. 1)


okay: this shit is like 5 seconds of a 20 minute song by bethoveen
metallica covered a portio of it on their song "to live is to die" so if you must heear it...

but yeah.....not bad for a fucking deaf dude huh? not bad for someone who couldn't hear what he was doing

also another thing , mozart was writing (great) symphanies when he was just a kid at 8  years old........something dre couldn't do at 40 !


classical music is known as high class art
rap music is known as low end art


that right there automatically  void's your little opinion.



as far as eminem painting a better more vivid picture than van gogh...no shit!

real art isn't something you look at and say wow he really drew that guys face pretty realistically!! that is simple and and low end art... high end and real art is what van gogh made. he made art that you had to think about . shit you had to look at and interpret. eminem is a true artist i will give him that but don't say stupid shit like he's up there or above van gogh




it's CLEAR you have no scense of art!

[Don Jacob]

rappers are not musicians .....noen of them play instruments ...........and the ones who do ....play them pretty amiturely ,yes and that goes for the roots.


nor are they poets......most of them are horrible rap lyracists an even worse poets. the only man who ever rapped and made sensible poetry was pac


rappers and mc's are just entertainers

[Trauma-san]

Don, I'd also like to chime in that Dre didn't even write Nothin' but a G thang, he just sampled the shit, lol.  If you've heard I wanna do something freaky to you, it's the same exact fucking beat.  That would be like my biggest accomplishment as a producer being a new version of The Watcher.  It'd be the same beat Dre did, lol.