Author Topic: What are your Views on Communists?  (Read 227 times)

MANBEARPIG.

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2004, 03:45:59 PM »
Some are good, some are bad. If Communism ran occordingly to the actual theory it would be the greatest thing in the world but unfortunately people are too greedy.

Yeah.  And people who consider capatilism a success aren't looking at it from other people's perspective.  If you are poor, or your business has just been closed down because Wal-Mart moved in next to you... or if your country has just been invaded by another country who wants to privatize your natural resources; then capatalism isn't so great.  I think everyone should have a food and shelter.  Capatalism can't gaurantee that.  Capatalism forces expensive items to be nessecities that weren't ever nessecities before; because the technology is controlling us... Rather than us controlling the technology.




This is exactly why we live in a mixed economy, programs like WIC, Welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid.  are the basis of communism, government controlling peoples lives to elimante class structure using various programs like these and these are in place for the poor, the people u describe there.  When your ric your a republican, when your poor youra communist.




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Woodrow

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2004, 04:35:28 PM »

Yeah.  And people who consider capatilism a success aren't looking at it from other people's perspective.  If you are poor, or your business has just been closed down because Wal-Mart moved in next to you... or if your country has just been invaded by another country who wants to privatize your natural resources; then capatalism isn't so great.  I think everyone should have a food and shelter.  Capatalism can't gaurantee that.  Capatalism forces expensive items to be nessecities that weren't ever nessecities before; because the technology is controlling us... Rather than us controlling the technology.
Wrong...

Wealth does not create poverty.

"Evidence abounds that the fundamental cause of Third World poverty is not First World greed... it is the economic, political and social obstacles that developing nations themselves raise to progress by their aspiring poor." -Katherine Kersten

"Capitalism is not just a system for producing wealth. It is, above all else, a system based on the noblest moral principle: the protection of the individual's right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Free markets are founded on the individual's right to pursue a career, trade the products of his effort, and enjoy the wealth he has earned without having to seek permission from others or pay ransom for the privilege of living." - Robert W. Tracinski

I'd like to see you try and explain how the world is a worse place because of capitalism.

 

Woodrow

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2004, 04:44:17 PM »
Communism won't work because it places the "Group" needs above the individuals needs. That's inherently wrong and a VERY misguided view about how people work.

Very true. If people could work that way society would be perfect, but it will never happen.

The way I look at it is this: If you say that the "group needs" are more important than an "individuals needs", dosen't that mean that some people's rights are more imporant than others? That's a fucked up way of thinking. It amazes me that people will preach all day about equal rights, and then go on to tell people about how great communism is.  
« Last Edit: February 03, 2004, 04:44:51 PM by Krayzie-Eyez Killah »
 

Lincoln

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2004, 05:37:51 PM »
Communism won't work because it places the "Group" needs above the individuals needs. That's inherently wrong and a VERY misguided view about how people work.

Very true. If people could work that way society would be perfect, but it will never happen.

The way I look at it is this: If you say that the "group needs" are more important than an "individuals needs", dosen't that mean that some people's rights are more imporant than others? That's a fucked up way of thinking. It amazes me that people will preach all day about equal rights, and then go on to tell people about how great communism is.  

Perhaps, that's not the way I look at it though. To me, the way I see it is that the everyone is the "group" and everyone is equal. Actually, I believe that's the basis of the actual Communist theory. Of course as we've seen with History, Communism has never worked except in Cuba, where the situation DID improve, although it's still not perfect there.

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infinite59

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2004, 06:01:31 AM »
Some people would like to think that it's the poor peoples fault that they are poor.  If this is the case, then why have certain groups, races, countries, tribes, communities; always been at the bottom?  Why should the Native American community always live in the poorest conditions?  The Native Americans have for centuries been the doormats of Western Civilization.  Is this because they are inferior?  Tell me why they are continually at the bottom?  Why do black people make up 13% of the population but 50% of the prison population in America?  Why are blacks, Native Americans, and Mexican communitites performing all the hard labor in this country and earning pennies.  

Capatilism is a system that allows the rich to stay rich and the poor to stay poor.  Rich people run our government.  They perpetuate the system.  Special interest groups write the rules in this country.

There has however; been some good in capatalism as well.  America is the most efficient country in the world in my opinion.  I have travelled to several countries.  In America, if you go to an institution, and they tell you something will be done in 3-5 days, you can count on it.  In alot of other countries things get done whenever people get around to it.

So there is good and bad in capatalism.  

« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 06:03:46 AM by Ibrahim Islam »
 

infinite59

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2004, 06:46:16 AM »
^^ Also I'd like to add...

In the Islamic system of economics the poor has rights over the wealthy.

Many Americans like to say about the poor; "I don't owe them anything.  I worked hard for my money, I don't owe them anything."  This is not the Islamic system.

It's not just a "good" or "nice" thing in Islam to give charity.  In the Islamic economic system you have to pay the poor due or you will face harsh penelties.  You DO owe them something.  Also, charging interest is forbidden in Islam; and you are not aloud to pile up or hoard wealth.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2004, 06:54:24 AM by Ibrahim Islam »
 

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2004, 10:11:40 AM »
This topic has gone a bit off track but at least people are talking rationally about it. Here's my take, please give it a read it took a while to type...

I believe communism is not a bad idea, but a flawed one, and one which will never work on its own.
I believe capitalism is not a bad idea, a flawed one which again can't work on its own.
I believe that each of these systems has an awful lot to offer and they should be the basis for a successful society. Imagine we had a blank canvas from which to construct a societal system. This is how I feel it would work the best...

Aspects of communism must be adopted. I think we all would like to feel that if we put in a hard days work, are good people, then we wont nevertheless end up in poverty due to uncontrollable circumstances. This is why I think we should have structures in place to provide free quality health care to those who need it, grant aid for those born into disadvantage, social welfare for single parents, unemployed (especially long term unemployed) and dont forget the OAP, who in many cases work for 50 years and are left surviving on meagre pensions. One common misconception is the rich work harder than the poor, and I dont think that is true, the rich simply have more opportunities and the skills to take advantage of them. The less well off shouldnt suffer for this.
All that is well and good. But you cant keep everyone locked down, they must be able to advance themselves, including financially. Entrepreneurs and business's should be encouraged to grow and generate wealth for themselves and the country, as long as they are not harming others. People should be free to make themselves rich, but not by exploiting others, after all it is the working class who do all the hard work and without them the economy would have no basis. Capitalism is needed to drive the economy, and not least to provide the revenue for the government to look after the sick, old and poor.
Corporate Responsibily should be a condition of the capitalism. Exploiting a countries population and resources for profits is wrong, and so the basis for the society should be People before Profits.

To end I don't think communism is any more "misguided" than capitalism, they both are to an extent. A combination of both is needed to obtain a fair and equitable society.

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Trauma-san

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2004, 09:51:55 PM »
Communism won't work because it places the "Group" needs above the individuals needs. That's inherently wrong and a VERY misguided view about how people work.

Not to mention it's unnatural.  It supresses the human drive, every human has a spirit in them that makes them strive for bigger and better things, and when properly channelled makes people extremely successful.  It's not greedy to want to be the best at everything in every possible way.  Humans just naturally want to be more than what they are.  Taking away their individulism with communism or socialism is an unnatural thing, and the human spirit soon tires of it and longs for more :)
 

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2004, 09:55:22 PM »
Some are good, some are bad. If Communism ran occordingly to the actual theory it would be the greatest thing in the world but unfortunately people are too greedy.

Yeah.  And people who consider capatilism a success aren't looking at it from other people's perspective.  If you are poor, or your business has just been closed down because Wal-Mart moved in next to you... or if your country has just been invaded by another country who wants to privatize your natural resources; then capatalism isn't so great.  I think everyone should have a food and shelter.  Capatalism can't gaurantee that.  Capatalism forces expensive items to be nessecities that weren't ever nessecities before; because the technology is controlling us... Rather than us controlling the technology.

Love.  If you've just been dumped, you have a bad view of love.  By your logic, Love is bad.  You're married, you're in love, it's the same thing.  Capitalism is bad to those who have been burnt by it, but it's the greatest thing in the world to those that have gained success through it.  Love's the same way.  It comes down to, is it worth the gamble? Humans by nature strive for betterment, so hell yes it's worth the gamble.  Life is worth the gamble.  You might have a good life, you might not.  By your logic we should all kill ourselves right now, right, instead of chanceing the consequences?  

Of course that's not what you believe, you only believe it about capitalism, because someone has told you to believe it about capitalism.  That belief is in contrast with your natural feelings as a human being.  
 

ITW [the irish boy]

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2004, 05:06:42 AM »
^^^^^^

You could make the exact same argument about communism. If you have had a bad experience of it you will naturally think it is bad. If you have had a good experience of it you think it's great. Is it worth a chance? Of course, that everyone can be equal is a great thing.

Like you said about capitalism, it's all about how you were brought up to believe in it. If you were brought up hearing "fucking commies" or "damn capitalists" your going to hold onto some of that view.

I dont think either is more natural than the other. Communism is more idealist for everyone whereas capitalism is more idealist for the lucky few. All depends on what side of the fence your on. Like I said above, a successful society needs elements of both,  Wouldnt you agree trauma?
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infinite59

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2004, 06:18:13 AM »


Like you said about capitalism, it's all about how you were brought up to believe in it. If you were brought up hearing "fucking commies" or "damn capitalists" your going to hold onto some of that view.



I was brought up hearing that capatalism was what the pursuit of happiness was all about.  I don't identify with that way of thinking.  Sometimes people aren't satisfied with the answers they have been given and they continue looking for more.  
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 06:30:46 AM by Ibrahim Islam »
 

Woodrow

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2004, 08:01:26 AM »
I dont think either is more natural than the other.

You're wrong.

"The market is not an invention of capitalism.  It has existed for centuries.  It is an invention of civilization." - Mikhail Gorbachev, June 8, 1990

"Capitalism is not an "ism." It is closer to being the opposite of an "ism," because it is simply the freedom of ordinary people to make whatever economic transactions they can mutually agree to." - Dr. Thomas Sowell

"Socialism is an ideology. Capitalism is a natural phenomenon." - Michael Rothschild

"Bad and discredited ideas, it seems, never die.  Neither do they fade away.  Instead, they keep turning up, like bad pennies or Godzilla in the old Japanese  movies." - Murray N. Rothbard

Fuck... How many people did communists kill in the past 100 years? It's ignorant for people to try to defend something that failed so horrbily.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2004, 08:02:07 AM by Krayzie-Eyez Killah »
 

LuvMilkshakes

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Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2004, 04:32:36 PM »
It's ignorant for people to try to defend something that failed so horrbily.

Talk about horrible. Look at that spelling.
 

Diabolical

Re:What are your Views on Communists?
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2004, 12:46:03 PM »
people should be allowed to live their lives however they wish BUT only as long as they dont impose their will on others :)