Author Topic: Question for Christians turned Muslim  (Read 510 times)

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2004, 10:52:04 AM »
comparing throwing out merchants from a temple, is hardly the same as mass murder during war. Jesus had a great following and I'm sure he could have utilized them as an army, also his power that he showed during the gospel far surpassed anything shown from man before and after (even Muhamed). I'm talking about the miracles he performed.

The problem I have with Muhamed's fight against oppression is that I don't it is right to hurt anyone because they hurt you, and cetainly not kill. And besides if when we die we are taken to a better place then wouldn't the ultimate reward on earth be death, why commit evil deeds to keep yourself from acheiving what is better.

Personally I don't care much for the Church and feel it goes against the one it follows in so many ways. I just can't find anything wrong with what Jesus said or did. I can't say the same for Muhamed.

Once again, I'm not condemning anyone to hell or anything like that. But I do think its foolish to follow any organized religion if you are at peace with yourself. Some people lack self control and need discipline, that's fine. But all the answers are not in any book. You have to dig deep inside and feel whats right and wrong. The heart never lies, atleast it never has for me. Not to say I've never done anything wrong, but I know when I've done wrong. All the technicalities of how to do things like eat, pray, conduct economics and politics change with the times. I feel Jesus knew this and that is why he rarely touched on these issues, particularly the outer worldy ones. When he was asked for the answers of the universe he answered that humans cannot even figure out what's right in front of them, so how can they understand what they cannot see.

So every time someone says that the bible or the quran explains science, I say their full of shit, because science is full of shit. Sure it leads to easier living but science is always proven wrong by more advanced science. For thousands of years scietists believed that if you drop two objects the heavier one will fall faster, until someone tried it and realized thats not the case. So I will not be surprised one bit that science's outlook on outer space completely changes in a hundred or so years.
Sorry to get off topic. As for the God on earth thing with Jesus. The prophecy did say Immanuel ( God with us) would come. And besides there are far more absurd things in the scriptures than that.
 

7even

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2004, 04:54:27 PM »
You could be right, After all religion is based on faith and faith is not based on fact. I don't think I could ever be an athiest, because if all I believe in is whats right in front of me, and when I die thats it, then whats the point of life. Humans need hope, and I feel bad for those thet have none, not to say that you have no hope, or that you are a bad person. But your thoughts ae better fit for another thread. I just want to know why christians turn to Islam, and I want a better reason than because God doesn't need a son, thats all.

-the point of life is to reproduce and keep your race alive. that's the reason why stuff like love and friendship exists. it's all in the brain. your brain gives you the impulse for certain persons we call "love". that's just because if parents would not love their children, they would die. if ppl wouldnt love a person, feel attracted to persons, they wouldnt fuck. moreover that is the reason why homosexuality is a fuckin disease. they cant reproduce.
aint no further point in life. thinkin you go to heaven or somethin is childish in my opinion. dont get how any adult person get to really believin this. I guess it's like you said, ppl need hope. so the losers and the ppl who have a fucked up life believe in god .. for hope. that's also why the less civilized areas have stronger believers. so I guess ima semi-quote Nietzsche: God is some imaginary thing for losers who cant get along in life.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2004, 04:57:36 PM by 7even the Harbinger »
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2004, 05:58:56 PM »
I admitted that I don't know the answers of the universe, and also that no one really does. Men older and wiser than you have questioned the meaning of life for centuries and have found no answer. And I think its stupid of you to come up with a definate answer and present it as a fact. Just as stupid as Nietzsche was, (and Immortal Technique is).

And how you say that no adult should dumb enough to believe in God. First off stupider things have happened. Second I ask you a question, two actually. Let's say you lived in the time of Jesus and you're mother was brutally raped and killed, and you mention this to him, and with the flick of a wrist he ressurects her and then tells you it is by the will of God you have you're mother back. Would you still doubt his existence? SecondIf the point of life is to reproduce and keep the race alive, then what would it matter if were dead and gone anyway. The first question was hypothetical since you don't belive in God.

Also were you raised athiest or did you choose it? And if so Why?
just curious.
 

7even

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2004, 07:50:01 PM »
I dont doubt Jesus' existence. He was a special guy and I respect him. But that's about it.
Further I think yall believers got the meaning of Jesus as God's Son wrong. It is said we are all god's sons. According to that, of fuckin course Jesus was God's Son! Got it? He was human like you and me. A charismatic guy who had mad struggles in life. But that's about it.
And about the mother-thingy-dont take the bible literally. It's not even supposed to be taken literally.
Second: It would not matter. It's just another race died out. Could be worse, our race wipes out other races all the time. (Remark for dickheads: talking about race, I refer to the human race.) We are just the currently predominant race of our time. If there was a God, what's the difference between a Dinosaur and a Human? WHAT? It's gotta be all the same to God, our race didnt start wit Adam and Eva and an apple, now aint that a bitch.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2004, 10:33:25 PM »
I still haven't heard to many replies to the original question I asked, or aren't there as many Christians turned Muslims on this forum as I thought.

And harbinger you didn't really answer the first or third questions I asked you.

 

7even

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2004, 10:52:14 PM »
I havent said it's dumb to believe in God, that would be ignorant. It's dumb to believe in the most childish ways (like heaven and hell, etc) tho in my opinion.
Plus Im not raised as an atheist, neither am I raised as a christian. Literally we are christians, my brother is even a believer, but Im an atheist since a few years. And im not like I dont care or Im cooler that way, I have my reasons, some of them I already stated here.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

7even

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2004, 05:31:32 AM »
Second: It would not matter. It's just another race died out. Could be worse, our race wipes out other races all the time. (Remark for dickheads: talking about race, I refer to the human race.) We are just the currently predominant race of our time. If there was a God, what's the difference between a Dinosaur and a Human? WHAT? It's gotta be all the same to God, our race didnt start wit Adam and Eva and an apple, now aint that a bitch.

Plus homie, if Im supposed to answer your questions, I take it for granted you do the same.
I condone this mis-behaviour of you this time, since you couldve taken my question as a rhetorical question, which it wasnt.
This also goes out to any believer here.. no matter if Christ, Muslim, Jew or whatever.
If there was a God, what's the difference between a Dinosaur and a Human? WHAT? It's gotta be all the same to God, our race didnt start wit Adam and Eva and an apple, now aint that a bitch. What makes you dare to think the Human race is so fuckin special? I dont get it. And to get back to the stone age..
since fuckin when is a person considered human and not an animal anymore? one hair less and it's considered a homo sapiens sapiens with a soul god cares about who gets to heaven and not a fuckin stone-age sucker pre-neandertaler semi-ape anymore, or what? now fuck with that.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

infinite59

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2004, 06:20:22 AM »
I still haven't heard to many replies to the original question I asked, or aren't there as many Christians turned Muslims on this forum as I thought.

You never responded to my reply to your origional question: Here it is again in short:

I was raised Christian.  My mother's family was Catholic and my father's family southern baptist.  I could not stand for all the hypocrisy in the Church and never could identify with man being God, so at age 14 I became an atheist.  Then at age 18 I went through yet another transformation when I finally came to know about Islam.  The primary reason I accepted Islam is because Islam can put your whole life and daily affairs in perfect order; Beggining with Allah being the One and Only, the Supreme Being, and the only deity worthy of worship.  Next, the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran and the practice of Islam begin to take hold of you and discipline your mind and body into submission to Allah, through intense praying, fasting, traveling (Hajj), supplicating to Allah, the brotherhood and comrodery amongst Muslims, the knowledge and psychology of the Holy Qu'ran... Soon one's life becomes a temple of worship.

To answer your first question, nothing is wrong with Jesus (peace be unto him).  He was a a devinely inspired prophet of God, and we believe in much of the gospels, although some of it has been lost in translation and altered for political reasons.

To answer your second question let me explain how the Qu'ran advanced the morals of the gospel, and previously revealed messages of Allah.  Being that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last prophet and the culmination of all messages, the Qu'ran was to offer the believers giudance in every sphere and aspect of life.  Allah has decreed in the Qu'ran "And verily, on this day I have completed the religion of (submission to the will of God)".  So in doing so, the Holy Qu'ran gave the believers giudance in all aspects from how to pray, how to orchestrate a society and government, how to fight against oppression and subjugation, economics, judiciary, dietary, marriage, divorce; a Muslim is never without giudance.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2004, 06:22:43 AM by Hajj Ibrahim Islam »
 

Don Seer

Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2004, 06:29:41 AM »
^ you missed out the phase where you were writing the gospel of 2pac and hailing him as the messiah...  :D
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2004, 08:31:26 AM »
Second: It would not matter. It's just another race died out. Could be worse, our race wipes out other races all the time. (Remark for dickheads: talking about race, I refer to the human race.) We are just the currently predominant race of our time. If there was a God, what's the difference between a Dinosaur and a Human? WHAT? It's gotta be all the same to God, our race didnt start wit Adam and Eva and an apple, now aint that a bitch.

Plus homie, if Im supposed to answer your questions, I take it for granted you do the same.
I condone this mis-behaviour of you this time, since you couldve taken my question as a rhetorical question, which it wasnt.
This also goes out to any believer here.. no matter if Christ, Muslim, Jew or whatever.
If there was a God, what's the difference between a Dinosaur and a Human? WHAT? It's gotta be all the same to God, our race didnt start wit Adam and Eva and an apple, now aint that a bitch. What makes you dare to think the Human race is so fuckin special? I dont get it. And to get back to the stone age..
since fuckin when is a person considered human and not an animal anymore? one hair less and it's considered a homo sapiens sapiens with a soul god cares about who gets to heaven and not a fuckin stone-age sucker pre-neandertaler semi-ape anymore, or what? now fuck with that.

When did I ever say that we are more important than any other race? All I said was I did not know the answers to the universe. And don't compare that old testament mythological bull shit with the gospel. Jesus was very simple and based his entire philosophies on how we "should" treat each other. He very rarely escaped that realm, and told his followers not to woory about the unknown because thay could not grasp it. Moses made a lot of rules, probably made a lot of them up himself, to appease the people. Jesus did no such thing, all he said was be a good person and you will be granted eternal life. I don't know about you but I don't particularly want to die.
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2004, 09:00:23 AM »
I still haven't heard to many replies to the original question I asked, or aren't there as many Christians turned Muslims on this forum as I thought.

You never responded to my reply to your origional question: Here it is again in short:

I was raised Christian.  My mother's family was Catholic and my father's family southern baptist.  I could not stand for all the hypocrisy in the Church and never could identify with man being God, so at age 14 I became an atheist.  Then at age 18 I went through yet another transformation when I finally came to know about Islam.  The primary reason I accepted Islam is because Islam can put your whole life and daily affairs in perfect order; Beggining with Allah being the One and Only, the Supreme Being, and the only deity worthy of worship.  Next, the teachings of the Holy Qu'ran and the practice of Islam begin to take hold of you and discipline your mind and body into submission to Allah, through intense praying, fasting, traveling (Hajj), supplicating to Allah, the brotherhood and comrodery amongst Muslims, the knowledge and psychology of the Holy Qu'ran... Soon one's life becomes a temple of worship.

To answer your first question, nothing is wrong with Jesus (peace be unto him).  He was a a devinely inspired prophet of God, and we believe in much of the gospels, although some of it has been lost in translation and altered for political reasons.

To answer your second question let me explain how the Qu'ran advanced the morals of the gospel, and previously revealed messages of Allah.  Being that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last prophet and the culmination of all messages, the Qu'ran was to offer the believers giudance in every sphere and aspect of life.  Allah has decreed in the Qu'ran "And verily, on this day I have completed the religion of (submission to the will of God)".  So in doing so, the Holy Qu'ran gave the believers giudance in all aspects from how to pray, how to orchestrate a society and government, how to fight against oppression and subjugation, economics, judiciary, dietary, marriage, divorce; a Muslim is never without giudance.



Actually my 7th post was a pesponse to your reply. But let me get more thorough. First off I'm beginning to think you think I think it was wrong of you to join Islam. Allow me to clarify, I don't think its wrong, not a bit, whatever makes you a better person is great with me. But I do think its feels wrong for me, that's all. I also don't think its evil to be gay, but I know that it feels wrong if a homosexual were to make advances on me. Just because I don't do something a certain way does not mean I don't think it should be done that way at all.

You mention how Muhamed advanced the morals of Christ. I beg to differ, I think he brought them down a few pegs. There is no way any one could ever argue that Muhamed was more peacful than Jesus or even as peaceful. He justified murder and slavery so long as it is not committed against fellow Muslim brothers. That's bull shit. And all the customs and shit that came out of the Quran like how to pray and eat are just sigs of the times. Correct me if I'm wrong but someone told me that the pig cannot be eaten because of its greed and sloppiness. If thats the case then I'd have to disagree, because pigs are actually one of the cleanest animals.

But anyway. I'm going to tell you what I think Muhammed was. I think he was a very well read intelligent man who was sick and tired of the position he and his people were in, and wanted revolution, justice. So he decided to create an army to fight for freedom. But it is very difficult to motivate the oppressed. So what did he do? What a lot of people do in this situation , make the people think the mission is divine.

Now I'm sorry if I've offended any Muslims, and keep in mind that this is only an opinion that cannot be proven, or is intended to be proven. Nor is it intended to be persuasive. But keep in mind the previous massive revolution in the middle east was led by Moses. (If there were any between 1500 BC- 600 AD, i'm sorry i don't mention them) And Moses was chosen by God, s as the story goes God granted Moses unimaginable powers to revolt against oppressors, hell he split an entire ocean for him (Harbinger I realize you probably don't think this happened, but Muslims do, so let it be). Now if Muhammed was chosen ahead of all the other prophets and is seen as the truest one then why did he and his people have to fight all alone in this fight? Why didn't God win it for them? Imaen even if one believes that all the stories of the prophets and their miracles are propaganda made to trick people, then why aren't here even any stories of Muhammed utilizing God's powers to fend off oppressors?

And don't tell me something stupid like God gave them strength in battle and that is why they, as underdogs, overthrew the larger oppressor. Because no one claimed divine intervention when 300 Spartans defeated a Persian army that consisted of thousands.
 

Lincoln

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2004, 01:10:08 PM »
But anyway. I'm going to tell you what I think Muhammed was. I think he was a very well read intelligent man who was sick and tired of the position he and his people were in, and wanted revolution, justice. So he decided to create an army to fight for freedom. But it is very difficult to motivate the oppressed. So what did he do? What a lot of people do in this situation , make the people think the mission is divine.


Wrong, Mohammed (PBUH) was illerate and had no education, religious nor otherwise besides speaking to a Christian Monk once when he was 5 or so, who could tell something was special about the child.

Most hip-hop is now keyboard driven, because the majority of hip-hop workstations have loops and patches that enable somebody with marginal skills to put tracks together,...

Unfortunately, most hip-hop artists gravitated towards the path of least resistance by relying on these pre-set patches. As a result, electric guitar and real musicians became devalued, and a lot of hip-hop now sounds the same.

Paris
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2004, 01:14:19 PM »
Its not hard to lie about how much education you. Saying that he was illiterate just makes "seem" more likely that it was God all along.
 

Shallow

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2004, 01:14:34 PM »
Its not hard to lie about how much education you have. Saying that he was illiterate just makes "seem" more likely that it was God all along.
 

ArmoLeb24

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Re:Question for Christians turned Muslim
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2004, 06:58:39 PM »
1. John (3:17) says that you "MIGHT be saved."
There is no guarantee of salvation. In Islam there is.

2. The Bible has been interpreted, hence revised, over and over as time went on. In fact, there are many versions of the Bible. In the Qu'ran not 1 word has been changed, and there isn't more than 1 version.


THERE ARE ALSO REFERENCES TO ISLAM/MUHAMMED IN THE BIBLE.

3. In Deuteronomy 33:2, we see Moses peace be upon him predicting that GOD Almighty will execute His Holy Judgement in the city of Paran by 10,000 of Believers:

"And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.  (From the King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

We also read about the same prophecy by Prophet Enoch peace be upon him:

"And Enoch [Idris in Arabic] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.  (Jude 1:14-15)"

Now, according to the Islamic history, the city of Mecca (Paran) was liberated by Prophet Muhammad's 10,000-men army.


4. Prophet Isaiah peace be upon him prophesied that two leaders whom he called "Chariot" would come -- one riding a donkey, and another riding a camel:

"And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed:  (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"

Jesus came on the ass(donkey)
Muhammed came on the camel



5. CHAPTER 220 of the "Gospel of Barnabus (Joseph)"

Jesus answered: 'Believe me, Barnabas, that every sin, however small it be, God punishes with great punishment, seeing that God is offended at sin. Wherefore, since my mother and my faithful disciples that were with me loved me a little with earthly love, the righteous God has willed to punish this love with the present grief, in order that it may not be punished in the flames of hell. And though I have been innocent in the world, since men have called me "God," and "Son of God," God, in order that I be not mocked of the demons on the day of judgment, has willed that I be mocked of men in this world by the death of Judas;, making all men to believe that I died upon the cross. And this mocking shall continue until the advent of Muhammad;, the Messenger ;of God, who, when he shall come, shall reveal this deception to those who believe in God's Law. Having thus spoken, Jesus said: 'You are just, O Lord our God, because to you only belongs honour and glory without end.'