Author Topic: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel  (Read 896 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re:Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2004, 08:48:44 AM »
ok explain me this why wouldn't israel except the cease fire agreement? why did they take out all references to UN boarders in their declaration of independence? like i said before the media is very slaunted in support of israel even in britain I just feel for the palestinian people i hope they get a fair deal, they have already lost so much why should they lose more? and i agree both sides do need to co exist arfrat has recently shown alot more willingness to co oporate regretting not excepting clintons deal, putting pressure on militant groups, recognising israel should stay jewish etc. yet israel shows little willingness to cooporate and still does everything on their own terms even going against america who are extremely lienent towards israel. is we could sort out the whole conflict the whole middle east would be alot more stable.


one sided cease fire- it's all it would soon become, why the hell camp david didn't work?!- doesn't that interest u?.....it's a metter of manipulation, Arafat brings instabillity, and than suddenly turns into this peace seeking creature(in the eyes of the world), Im surprised at how people don't notice the decieve, he'd like to continue suicide bombings without dealing with the consequenses, we lost hope in Arafat, we don't trust him, Israel doesn't have a terrtorial interest, we don't need any land, all we're looking for is security, any action of the Israeli deffence force is made to protect Israeli citizents....
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re:Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2004, 09:51:34 AM »
you can't possibly think that back then taking out references to UN defined boarders had anything to do with security, but more to do with ambitions to enlarge the jewish state. understandably palestine were upset about losing half their country but maybe something could have been worked out at the time i remeber the king of jordan offering to step in, or even some other peace keeping force might have been worked out through the UN but after the british left but israel wasn't intersted.

you talk about past failings, why not try and work towards peace NOW its never too late and just remember who have been the net losers! it was earlier today you were talking about co-existence or did u just mean jewish control? if israel has no terrirtorial interest why does it continue to illegally build settlements on palestinian land? the fact of the matter is they wouldn't need securing if they wern't there.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re:Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2004, 11:42:51 AM »
lol....The original boarders the UN defined back than are those same boarders the Palestinians supposebly want Israel to withdraw to, in their perfect senario today(if we asume they do except the exisitance of the state of Israel at all)....no offence, but I doubt that u know what u're talking about, I quote:  "understandably palestine were upset about losing half their country"
u should know that there has never existed such country, in fact, a creation of a Palestinian state is something they might strive to nowadays, but back than it was a Land where a number of tribes and peoples exsited on, besides Jews , some were mobile, did u know how the Palestinian declaration defines a Palestinian ? goes like this--" a person who lived on the land of Palestine since year so and so...", What Im saying is basiclly this, you're worshiping a fiction,  as many alikes of u do,the Palestinian agenda was created only to overweight the Jewish people who somehow intimidated their contemporary's, such nation as Palestinians never even existed be4, they created themselves for this occasion, the history created much sympathy towards opressed people, even the Jews themselves may've been a part of this legacy, people sub-consiously tend to look for live examples of this easy to relate to fenomenon, what u guys don't understand is that the Palestinians are a slightly diffrened case, they could've learned to co-exist easilly, problem was they had power thirsty figures that would rather live in richess while their so called people are dieing, starving or comeeting suicide.....co-existance is very important, the people who run Israel know it, right wingers as much as left wingers, but on the way to co-existance certain barriers need to be taken down, not only physical but also psychological, Israel does not build settlements, in fact it even battles settlers who are trying to start new settlements, Israel recognises the fact new settlements are not healthy, and  u need to realise that Israel has no territorial interest, anyone who sayes Israel has a territorial interest doesn't know what the conflict is about....
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We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re:Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2004, 11:49:32 AM »
i know palestine still isn't officially a country but that still doesn't give any other country the right to take land they have owned for hundreds of years away from them. and yes b4 israel was born jews muslims and christians all lived at peace in palestine, go figure that one out.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re:Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2004, 12:03:21 PM »
i know palestine still isn't officially a country but that still doesn't give any other country the right to take land they have owned for hundreds of years away from them. and yes b4 israel was born jews muslims and christians all lived at peace in palestine, go figure that one out.


again, it's very important to understand that the actual percentage of Palestinian land owners was relatively low, many of the people who were defined as Palestinians later were for their most part mobile up untill a certain period of time, dwellers, just like Beduins, that small amount of Land owners even if they have ever been robbed of land were never robbed by Jews(Although during the yeshuv some of them sold their lands to Jewish investors through mutual agreements), The original boarders mapping took into consideration such isues, so to tell u the truth no territorial isue should've existed back than, unless there was something more than territory.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2004, 09:38:21 AM »
well from what i have read the person who lead to israel to independence didn't want to be confined by the UN boarders and had bigger ambitions for israel hence taking out references to UN boarders. then in 67 it was redefined and israel wants another redefinition now.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2004, 05:17:55 AM »
well from what i have read the person who lead to israel to independence didn't want to be confined by the UN boarders and had bigger ambitions for israel hence taking out references to UN boarders. then in 67 it was redefined and israel wants another redefinition now.

don't really know what is that you read, and who is that mysterious person you're talking about, but point is that Israel's original boarders back in 48 are the boarders they want us to retreat to nowadays(if you believe what they say) and under which we were atacked by the whole Arab world on the first day to our existance...
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2004, 06:13:22 AM »
David Ben-Gurion learn the history of ur own country he was ur first prime minister

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From the inception of Zionism, the Zionist leaders have fed their people false propaganda. Probably the picture above can tell you a bit of the real story. It is misleading and unfair to focus on what Palestinians might allegedly do in the future, while Palestinians' past and present are filled with Israeli war crimes. These types of accusations are meant to deflect and confuse the core issues of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.  The core issues of the conflict are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING (compulsory population transfer) of the Palestinian people for the past five decades, and the conflict would have been on the same level of intensity, even if both warring parties were Muslims, Christians, or even Jewish. 

From the start, the Zionist leaders were keen on creating a "Jewish State" based on "Jewish majority" by immigrating Jews to Palestine in mass numbers, which was primarily motivated by the fleeing European Jews from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. When it became increasingly clear to the Zionist leaders at the time (such as Ben-Gurion and Theodor Herzl) that it was impossible to achieve Jewish majority solely based on immigration and natural growth, they concluded that forcible "population transfer" (Ethnic Cleansing) was the only solution to the "Arab Problem." Year after year, the plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine of its indigenous people became known as the "transfer solution". David Ben-Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, eloquently articulated the "transfer solution" as the following: 

In a joint meeting between the Jewish Agency Executive and Zionist Action Committee on June 12th, 1938:
"With compulsory transfer we [would] have a vast area [for settlement] .... I support compulsory transfer. I don't see anything immoral in it." 1 
 
In a speech addressing the Central Committee of the Histadrut on December 30, 1947:
"In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment, will be about one million, including almost 40% non-Jews. such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority .... There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%." 2 
 
And on February 8th, 1948 Ben-Gurion also stated to the Mapai Council:
"From your entry into Jerusalem, through Lifta, Romema [East Jerusalem Palestinian neighborhood]. . . there are no [Palestinian] Arabs. One hundred percent Jews. Since Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans, it has not been Jewish as it is now. In many [Palestinian] Arab neighborhoods in the west one sees not a single [Palestinian] Arab. I do not assume that this will change. . . . What had happened in Jerusalem. . . .  is likely to happen in many parts of the country. . .  in the six, eight, or ten months of the campaign there will certainly be great changes in the composition of the population in the country." 3 
 
In a speech addressing the Zionist Action Committee on April 6th, 1948:
"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area ..... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population." 4 
For Israeli Zionists to excuse themselves from any war crimes, such as compulsory population transfer (Ethnic Cleansing) and dispossessing the Palestinian people, they've resorted to a myth that Palestinians left their homes, farms, businesses, banks, boats, cars, ..etc. based on their free will.5

There is no denying of the fact that some Palestinians think exactly like the Zionists (which is the Palestinian version of Zionism), and very possibly they do so because they were the victims of such treatment. Regardless of whether it is right or wrong, you have to agree that it is human nature to respond to terror with terror and to racism with racism, which are facts that all decent people must accept and deplore simultaneously. No matter what the circumstances are (such as the urge to seek vengeance, revenge, reprisals, ... etc.), targeting civilians to achieve political or military objectives, in either war or non-war situations, is terrorism. It is worth noting that the Palestinian people have been on the receiving end of Israeli terrorism, the chief of which are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING of 8.5 million Palestinian for the past five decades.

Finally, the Palestinian mainstream does not and will not condone massive ethnic cleansing the way Israeli Zionists have done to the Palestinian people. Palestinians, as Muslim and Arabs, have their long history and track record to prove exactly the opposite. Omar Ibn al-Khatab's and Saladin’s conquest of Jerusalem are solid proof of how Arabs and Muslims fairly treated their defeated subjects, the Byzantines and the Crusades respectively. Ironically, many of today's Christian Palestinians trace their roots to the Crusades, such as the famous Rock family of Jaffa. In other words, if freeing Palestine shall imply perpetrating war crimes similar to the ones perpetrated against the Palestinian people, Palestinians shall wait for another Omar or Saladin to right the wrongs of the past. The Muslim Arabs have their history to prove their tolerance towards their subjects, however, the Israeli Zionists have their track record to speak for them.

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Are you aware that in March 1948 the United States, along with China and France, was withdrawing from its earlier commitments to partition Palestine, and was pressing for "trusteeship" - an extension of Great Power rule- in Palestine beyond May 15th, 1948? 14  And on March 19th, 1948, Ben-Gurion responded to the idea of UN trusteeship in a press conference in Tel-Aviv with the following:
"It is we who will decide the fate of Palestine. We cannot agree to any sort of Trusteeship, permanent or temporary. The Jewish State exists because we defend it." 15

It should be noted that since November 1947 the UN GA failed to reaffirm the 1947 U.N. partition plan.

Are you aware that the 20th Zionist Congress, which convened in Zurich in August 1937, almost UNANIMOUSLY REJECTED the British proposed partition plan of Palestine (which became known as the Peel Commission Partition plan)? 16. Although the proposed Peel Commission's partition plan was rejected because the areas allocated to the "Jewish state" was "too small," the concept of partitioning the country was adopted by the 20th Zionist Congress. Consult the Peel Commission map (URL available at footnote 17) which was rejected by the 20th Zionist Congress, and the map proposed by the U.N. in 1947 (available at footnote 18). While inspecting both maps, note the following:

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We call upon your sense of fairness while contemplating the following questions:
 
1) If the Peel Commission plan was accepted by the Zionists in 1937, how many Jews might have been saved from the Nazi holocaust? In that respect, it is worth quoting Ben-Gurion, who wrote twenty years later: 
"Had partition [referring to the Peel Commission partition plan] been carried out, the history of our people would have been different and six million Jews in Europe would not have been killed---most of them would be in Israel."19

2) If the Zionist Jews rejected such an offer, which could have "saved" many Jews from the Nazi holocaust, why are the Palestinians often blamed for rejecting a plan which allocated them much less land in 1947?
 
3) Why is the same excuse accepted by Zionists for rejecting the 1937 Peel Partition plan, but not accepted when used by Arabs for rejecting the 1947 UN GA Partition plan?


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Are you aware that the 1947 UN GA proposed partition in favor of creating a "Jewish State" in Palestine was outside the competence of the Assembly under the Charter of the United Nations? Nowhere in the UN's charter was there the power to partition any country, especially based on racial or religious grounds. Even if the UN had such power to partition a country, such a resolution is not binding since it was indorsed by General Assembly rather than Security Council.

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Assuming in 1947 Israeli Jews constituted a 2/3 majority, and owned and operated 93% of Israeli lands, contributed 55%-60% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), would you accept a U.N. imposed partition of Israel in favor of an alien settler minority? 
It should be NOTED that currently Palestinian-Israeli citizens make up 20-22% of the total population, so is it acceptable for the United Nations to partition Israel in a favorable way to its Palestinian minority? As an Israeli Jew, would you accept a UN GA proposed partition of Israel?   

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In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for "Jewish state" on part of Palestine only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest when he wrote:
 
"[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state--we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." 27

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Ben-Gurion wrote in his dairy on November 30, 1947 after the UN's vote to partition Palestine into two states:
 
"In my heart, there was joy mixed with sadness: joy that the nations at last acknowledged that we are a nation with a state, and sadness that we lost half of the country, Judea and Samaria, and , in addition, that we [would] have [in our state] 400,000 Arabs."
sounds like co existance huh?

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On February 7th, 1948, while addressing the Mapai Council he responded to a remark that the "Jews have no land in the Jerusalem corridor" with the following:
 
"The war will give us the land. The concept of 'ours' and 'not ours' are only concepts for peacetime, and during war they lose all their meaning." 34
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Ben-Gurion addressing the Zionist Action Committee on April 6th 1948, just a few days before the implementation of Plan Dalet which signaled the official Zionist offensive against the Palestinians:
 
"We will not be able to win the war if we do not, during the war, populate upper and lower, eastern and western Galilee, the Negev and Jerusalem area ..... I believe that war will also bring in its wake a great change in the distribution of Arab population." 36
 
Note the premeditated plan to occupy and ethically cleanse areas, such as Galilee and Jerusalem, which were not allotted to the "Jewish State" by the 1947 U.N. Partition plan. 37
Finally, it seems often hypocritical when on one hand many Israeli Zionists use UN GA partition plan as a pretext to legitimize "Israel's"  existence, and on the other hand they've rejected almost every other UN resolution since "Israel's" creation, chief among them U.N. GA resolution 194 which calls for the immediate Right of Return of all ethnically cleansed Palestinians to their homes, farms, plantations, businesses, banks, boats, buses, ... etc. To suit "Israel's" political agenda, Israeli Zionists have deliberately chosen to ignore most, if not all, UN resolutions, of course with the exception of withdrawing from occupied southern Lebanon in May 2000. Sadly, Israel has accepted the UN resolution to withdraw its occupation forces out of southern Lebanon not because it was influenced by the UN, U.S., or even European diplomatic pressure, but because it was compelled to do so by the heroic Lebanese resistance.

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In 1936 (soon after the outbreak of the Intifada I), Ben-Gurion wrote in his diary:
"The Arabs fear of our power is intensifying, [Arabs] see exactly the opposite of what we see. It doesn't matter whether or not their view is correct.... They see [Jewish] immigration on a giant scale .... they see the Jews fortify themselves economically .. They see the best lands passing our hands. They see England identify with Zionism. ..... [Arabs are] fighting dispossession ... The fear is not of losing land, but of losing homeland of the Arab people, which others want to turn it into the homeland of the Jewish people. There is a fundamental conflict. We and they want the same thing: We both want Palestine ..... By our very presence and progress here, [we] have matured the [Arab] movement."100
 
In 1938, Ben-Gurion also stated against the backdrop of Intifada I:
"When we say that the Arabs are the aggressors and we defend ourselves ---- that is ONLY half the truth. As regards our security and life we defend ourselves. . . . But the fighting is only one aspect of the conflict, which is in its essence a political one. And politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves." 101
i can get a ton more quotes which will go into the arab attacking forces (almost totally in areas not allocated to jews by the UN)

on the note of the actual topic tho the ruling of israels court to change the route of parts of the barrier is a step in the right direction, but further construction shud cease until all cases have been heard, and i also believe it shud be an international body who shud have the final say who arn't going to have any bias to either palestinians or israelis to come up with a work able solution.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 06:47:06 AM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2004, 10:53:07 PM »
Actually the writer of the first article could've been more convincing if it wasn't for one thing that immediatly engages him with the anti-Jewish propoganda- defining Zionism as some kind of a Rasially hatefull philosophy. One of The few true things he notes however, is that it was based on creating a Jewish state based on a Jewish majority(at least it was one of it's directions- Zionism had many theories and viewes, it wasn't a single opinion ideology, just like today's Israel is-everyone wants peace but there are diffrences on how to achieve it), since it was the only way to make it democratic and Jewish at the same time(The Jewish state was declared to be a Democratic Jewish state), what is more interesting though is this, Ben Gurion, one of the first people to pioneer the Transfer idealogy is a prototype of today's left wingers, I'll run it by u again, he's the guy who created the ideology that lead Israel to Oslo a couple of decades later, Rabin and Perez as followers of Ben Gurion wanted to grant Palestinians with a state, their own state, striving to achieve Ben Gurions original goal, seperating Palestinians from Israel to support the idea of a Jewish majority on Israel's territory(including all territory under Israel's control), by preforming that exact" free willed transfer" . May I remind you that this was an idealogy widely excepted by the Palestinians on their side(to the public eye)? Of course that was not before they corrected the Palestinian Declaration by changing the paragraphs in which the Palestinian people dencline The Jewish State's right to exist at all. On the other hand the population of Israel that Objected this agreement all this time were of course the right wingers, whose idealogical forefathers at the times of Ben Gurion supported the Zionistic idea of a "bi-national state", and although  this theoretical bi-national state would've been granted a much bigger slice of territory, it couldn't have been Jewish and Democratic at the same time, and why?- because the Arab population would overweight, So it could be a bi-national democratic state or a Jewish "not so democratic" state.
All in all though, this article has little to do with our isue, since it's main arguement concerns only the Arab Citizents of Israel itself and not the vast Palestinian majority in the Palestinian Authority or even the territorial isue, Israel as it started it's way in 48 was sitting on a very small territory, Ben Gurion's transfer policy concerned the Palestinians that were sitting on Israel's original territory, those who could effect it's national character- If a Palestinian state would start it's existance the Arabs that  "occupy" legal Israeli territory would be pleasently asked to move their asses to their newfound state-this should sum it all up. The article you posted is pointless and is filled with arguemental propoganda, since some of the aspects the writer allegedly opposes are the basics to the concepts of Palestinian independence, and the democratical characteristics of both states. The main goal of your article is again to present Israel as a nazi-dectaroship inspired state (off topic statements like this one prove it: "which was primarily motivated by the fleeing European Jews from anti-Semitic Tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany"), and to moraly juestefy terroristic millitant actions by Palestinians, quotes:
"they do so because they were the victims of such treatment">>(Actual transfer never was preformed)
"  it is human nature to respond to terror with terror and to racism with racism"
"The Muslim Arabs have their history to prove their tolerance towards their subjects">>(So now we're talking about history, The Jews have their history to prove Israel belonged to them from the times of the bible).


« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 11:07:39 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2004, 10:35:56 AM »
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"  it is human nature to respond to terror with terror and to racism with racism"
that statement is true its not their oppinion its just a fact. when applied to this conflict the mistreatment of palestinians have lead to a resistence of israeli occupation.

they are saying in the thousands of years it hasn't been a jewish state the arabs havn't mistreated the jews in the way the jews are to them today. and to base your who case on your ancestors with near untraceable family tree once owned that land do u really think they have a right to take it back now all these years later? we see the how the state of israel conducts its business maybe they had it right all those years ago, like i said before you should gotten part of germany.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2004, 10:42:17 AM by Don Rizzle »

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2004, 11:24:57 AM »
Blowing up buses and clubs with women, children and adulessents is not mistreatment?! This article's poor atempt to justefy terrorism is not working.....
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2004, 03:42:49 AM »
israel terrorists blow up schools, or do forget israelis can do that kind of thing too?  whilst your government has taken land, put military check points everywhere, do lots of raids and strikes into all areas and bulldozer towns to the ground. after 50 years of occupation in palestine israel has created 4 million palestinian refugees and murdered thousands of the palestinian people including small children. israel has held palestinians in poverty while israel has prospered. These are reasons they should have grown to like israel?

the article wasn't trying to justify terrerism u took it that way, it was more about understanding their reactions showing israels intentions and actions how they have fuck over the palestinian people in nearly every way but because they have created a few terrorists we should ignore whats caused them to rise up?

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2004, 05:25:08 AM »
Once again, there would be no checkpoints, no bulldozers, no raids and airstrikes, if Israel wasn't threatened- if Israeli citizents haven't been threatened.
There would've been no Refugees if Israel hasn't been threatened and atacked by it's neighbour states for an unprecedented number of times in the duration of such short existance, or If some of the support money that was given to the Palestinian Authority would've been used for actual causes(to help the Palestinian people) and not to provide more explossives for more bombings.
The suffering of The inocent people in the Palestinian authority is a known fact, This article isn't inventing anything new to us, however, the reasons to their suffring are also known to us,  too bad their own leadership is completely oblivious to their suffring, I'll tell u this, if Arafat was concerned for at least a half of Israel's concern as for those poor people,  situation may've been differend.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 05:28:23 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2004, 07:10:30 AM »
ok so by ur logic its ok to threaten palestinians and be an aggressive nation in general. but if palestinians resist the aggression or they show aggression back, israel has the right to take more away from them. basically israel treats them like dogs if they don't roll over u get mad at them and tighten their leesh giving them less freedom.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2004, 09:35:10 AM »
To tell you the truth I don't know why people keep saying there is some sort of an occupation, It may come as quite a shock to you, but a territorial interest is not one today's Israel pocesses(nor did it have one for the last 10 years at least), We don't need more territory,New settlements emerging- if that is what you adressed, are not supported by the Israeli government and are ambushed by the Israeli deffence force, but even an existing settlement of such calliber would be insignificant to the Palestinian Authority in any possible aspect(Even a big settlement wouldn't effect the Palestinians half the way Palestinians who occupy Israeli territory effect Israel)-Like I said they only use their anti-settlement resolution as a bagaining card ,The Israeli deffence force operating on Palestinian territory is there to provide Israel with the right amount of security(a reaction to terroristic atacks, a pre-emptive action or actual portection provided to Israeli Citizens at existing old-timer settlements), not for farther conquering of territory, most people who claim to support the Palestinian side by all means seems to ignore the fact no actual occupation occures, only retaliation and deffence...
What did you mean by "being an aggressive nation in general"?
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?