Author Topic: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel  (Read 885 times)

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #45 on: July 08, 2004, 08:14:49 AM »
oh i got an idea why not tarmac over what is left of palestine make make it all flat n that, and there won't be any places to hide any more so you'll be able to see all your black and white sheep run around in their pen, wouldn't that be lovelly.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

smerlus

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2004, 11:21:43 AM »
So you mean to tell me that Palestinians started fighting back 500 years after the state of Israel was created? Good lord, you're an idiot.

no i'm saying your an idiot for impling that something that happened 500 years ago is the same thing as something that happens recently

Europeans settled the land in large numbers, killed off the Native Americans, created a nation.

Israelis settled the land in large numbers coming from Europe (Zionist movement), killed off the Palestinians or forced them to migrate, created a nation.

I'm sure you still can't see it, but just keep using your 24 brain cells and you might figure it out.

a nice broad summary of history but i like how you forgot facts to twist the arguement into your light... can you ever debate using actual facts? here have some facts:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_un_arabrejection.php
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2004, 02:45:29 PM »
and that doesn't have any spin? all the additional reading are israeli or pro israeli. although the actual article was only written in a slightly pro israeli stance IMO

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

smerlus

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2004, 02:50:05 PM »
well it's kind of hard to paint a pretty picture of:

The Arabs not only rejected partition, but attacked Israel from all sides. The armies of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq invaded Israel on May 15, 1947, the day after Israel's Independence Day, with the clear intention of killing the infant state in its cradle.

On May 15, 1947 Azzam Pasha called for "jihad", saying:

This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades".
Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, agreed with Pasha:

I declare a holy war, my muslim brothers! Murder the Jews! Murder them all!
In a letter to the United Nations, the Transjordanian Prime Minister was quoted:

Our position is clear, and has been proclaimed on every occasion. It is never to allow the creation of a Jewish State in Palestine and to exclude partition. And our object is to cooperate with the other Arab States in her deliverance. Once this aim is attained, the determination of her future status is the right and concern of her own people. Theirs alone is the last word. We have no other object or aim in view.
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2004, 04:27:37 PM »
1) jews were not entitled to the land
2) israel regected the partition and the cease fire agreement anyway because it was too small, and showed little interest in peace intiatives
3) israel got arabs off the land by any means
4) the arab nations generally attacked the expanded part of israel not included in the partition
5) look at israel on a map palestine is cut in 2, and israel is much bigger than the two halves put together.
6) year on year israels terrirtory has expanded
7) arabs and in particular palestinians have incured far more deaths and injuries since israel was started
8 ) israel pays little attention to international watchdogs and organisations like the UN or even international law
9) israel has one of the largest nuclear stock piles of weapons in the world and has not signed up to the non proliferication treaty so is not subject to sanctions and opporates on a "no show no tell policy" while they expect the rest of the middle east to be put under international pressure to not produce nuclear weapons (eg iran)
10) in whats left of palestine the israeli army enjoys shooting small children, buldozing farms and houses to the ground, firering missles and tank shells into the refugee camps especially when large crowds are present, have military check points everywhere.
11) in 1947 the area allocated to the jews by the UN had a jewish population of 520,000. there are now over 4 million palestinian refugees at the present day.


who do u think got a raw deal?

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

smerlus

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2004, 04:38:50 PM »
The implacability of the Arabs was evident when Jewish Agency representatives David Horowitz and Abba Eban made a last-ditch effort to reach a compromise in a meeting with Arab League Secretary-General Azzam Pasha on September 16, 1947. Pasha told them bluntly:

The Arab world is not in a compromising mood. It's likely, Mr. Horowitz, that your plan is rational and logical, but the fate of nations is not decided by rational logic. Nations never concede; they fight. You won't get anything by peaceful means or compromise. You can, perhaps, get something, but only by the force of your arms. We shall try to defeat you. I am not sure we'll succeed, but we'll try. We were able to drive out the Crusaders, but on the other hand we lost Spain and Persia. It may be that we shall lose Palestine. But it's too late to talk of peaceful solutions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
guess they should have compromised then


that right there shuts your whole arguement up  "becareful what you wish for you just might get it"
« Last Edit: July 08, 2004, 04:40:24 PM by smerlus »
 

Maradona

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2004, 10:18:28 PM »
Israel Snubs Mideast 'Quartet' Delegation

By JOSEF FEDERMAN, AP


JERUSALEM (July 7) - Israel snubbed a delegation of Mideast mediators that had come to discuss its planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, officials said Wednesday, further undermining efforts to promote an internationally backed peace plan for the region.

The representatives of the so-called Quartet - comprising the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia - are in the region to promote the Gaza withdrawal.

The Quartet wants the withdrawal to be part of the "road map," its broader peace plan that envisions an independent Palestinian state by 2005.

Israeli officials, however, decided not to meet with the diplomats during a stop in Jerusalem on Tuesday - the latest sign that the Jewish state is attempting to exclude Europeans from Mideast peacemaking ahead of its planned Gaza withdrawal.

"We do not work with the Europeans on security issues. We don't want to work with the Europeans on security issues," said Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's spokesman, Asaf Shariv.

"We work with the Americans on these issues. There are a lot of other issues, like economic, that we would be happy to work on with the Europeans," Shariv said.

Shariv denied Israel had refused to meet the Quartet. He said Israel first wants to talk to a White House delegation arriving later this week before discussing the withdrawal plan with others.

Israel has often accused Europe of being biased toward the Palestinians, and preferred to deal directly with the United States.

The government has progressively distanced itself from the road map, which calls for a negotiated settlement with the Palestinians, since it signed on to the plan a year ago.

Sharon has refused to talk with the Palestinians as he prepares the Gaza pullout. Instead, he has asked Egypt, which borders Gaza, to help train Palestinian security forces and to ensure calm.

A diplomatic source expressed surprise at the Israeli snub. He said the EU has held a series of "very constructive" meetings with Israel on the Gaza plan.

"The message from the Israelis is that European contributions that help to make Gaza withdrawal a success will be very welcome," the source said, on condition of anonymity.


The Quartet envoys met Wednesday with Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia in the West Bank town of Ramallah. Later, Qureia met with David Satterfield, the American representative at the talks.

"If it is true that Israeli officials would not meet with the Quartet, it means that Israel is turning its back to the entire world," Qureia said.

At the meetings, Queria criticized Israeli settlements, the construction of a West Bank separation barrier and the targeted killings of Palestinian militants, Palestinian officials said. The officials said Satterfield emphasized that the United States continues to support President Bush's vision of a Palestinian state living peacefully alongside Israel, as set out in the road map plan.

While U.S. officials say they are committed to the plan, Washington has sent mixed signals over its implementation.

A set of letters that Sharon and Bush exchanged in Washington last April did not mention the Quartet.

In the letters, Israel presented its plans for a Gaza withdrawal, while the United States offered unprecedented backing for Israel on the sensitive issues of Jewish settlements and Palestinian refugees.

The assurances enraged Palestinians, and several European countries criticized Bush's support.

But this week, Secretary of State Colin Powell told Israel to pick up the pace of dismantling settlement outposts in the West Bank, as required by the road map.

Talk of uprooting settlements in Gaza and the West Bank has angered settlers and their hard-line supporters in Israel, raising concerns of a potential extremist threat. Sharon admitted earlier this week that he felt he could be at risk.

On Wednesday, Shin Bet chief Avi Dichter met with settler leaders to discuss the threats.

Dichter said he has no evidence of specific threats against Sharon or other officials, but that he remains concerned about growing extremism, security officials said.

Dichter and the settlers pledged to increase cooperation to isolate extremist elements.

The threat of violence strikes a deep chord in Israel. Many politicians and security officials still blame themselves for ignoring the warning signs ahead of the 1995 assassination of then-Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an ultranationalist Jew.

In new fighting Wednesday, Israeli troops shot and killed an armed Palestinian man in a refugee camp on the outskirts of the West Bank city of Nablus. Palestinians said the man belonged to the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a Palestinian militant group.



07/07/04 15:57 EDT

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published
Picking up the ball from inside his own half, the pint-sized Argentine skipped past challenge after challenge. Always appearing to be on the point of tumbling, he was miraculously able to retain his balance before rounding Peter Shilton and slotting the ball home for a goal manufactured in heaven.
 

smerlus

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2004, 10:28:19 PM »
so to further defame israel you pull up an article that says that they will work with the US to back out of the gaza strip and not the Europeans....good job...i really hate those jewish people now
 

Maradona

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2004, 10:39:12 PM »
Wow, you really are an idiot. Here let me show you something, if you can't do the math, tell me and I'll do it for you.

"Israel's foreign minister yesterday told the Bush administration that his nation will not abide by a World Court ruling on the legality of its West Bank barrier and pressed for U.S. support to block any U.N. action against the Jewish state.....
The White House also objects to intervention on the matter from the International Court of Justice, also known as the World Court. In a January filing with the World Court, the Bush administration said the top U.N. court does not have jurisdiction to mediate the dispute."



http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040702-115949-9770r.htm

Now why in the hell would Israel want to deal with anyone but the U.S. when the U.S. basically lets Israel do whatever it pleases. Israel wants to disregard the U.N. court and the U.S. says that's okay. LOL. Seriously, if you can't put 2 and 2 together here, I feel sorry for you.
Picking up the ball from inside his own half, the pint-sized Argentine skipped past challenge after challenge. Always appearing to be on the point of tumbling, he was miraculously able to retain his balance before rounding Peter Shilton and slotting the ball home for a goal manufactured in heaven.
 

smerlus

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2004, 10:44:47 PM »
i'm glad they want to handle it themselves...when the palistinians declared war on the jewish people and said that they were going to wipe out every last one of them....they got what they deserved
 

Woodrow

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2004, 10:54:57 PM »
Sigh...

Some people just don't get it.

Myth: "Israel enjoys the same rights as any other member of the United Nations."

Fact:
Quote
A breakthrough in Israel’s fifty-year exclusion from UN bodies occurred on May 30, 2000, when Israel accepted an invitation to become a temporary member of the Western European and Others (WEOG) regional group. While only temporary, this historic step could finally end the UN’s discrimination against Israel and open the door to Israeli participation in the Security Council.

Israel has been the only UN member excluded from a regional group. Geographically, it belongs in the Asian Group; however, the Arab states have barred its membership. Without membership in a regional group, Israel cannot sit on the Security Council or other key UN bodies.

The WEOG is the only regional group which is not purely geographical, but rather geopolitical, namely a group of states that share a Western-Democratic common denominator. WEOG comprises 27 members: all the West European states; and the "others" — Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States.

Israel’s membership in the WEOG is severely limited. Every four years Israel will have to reapply for membership, since its status is only temporary. Israel was not allowed to present candidacies for open seats in any UN body for two years and is not able to compete for major UN bodies, such as the Economic and Social Council, for a longer period. Also, for the first two years, Israeli representatives were not allowed to run for positions on the UN Council.

Besides these restrictions, Israel is only allowed to participate in WEOG activities in the New York office of the UN. Israel is excluded from WEOG discussion and consultations at the UN offices in Geneva, Nairobi, Rome and Vienna; therefore, Israel cannot participate in UN talks on human rights, racism and a number of other issues handled in these offices.

In February 2003, Israel was elected to serve on the UN General Assembly Working Group on Disarmament, its first committee posting since 1961 (after 1961, the UN split the membership into regional groups and that was when Israel became isolated). An Israeli representative was elected as one of the group's three vice-chairmen and received votes from Iran and several Arab states. On the other hand, during the same month, an Israeli candidate was defeated for a position on the UN Committee on the rights of the child. The year before Israeli candidates also lost votes for positions on the UN Human Rights Committee, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women, and the UN Racial Discrimination Committee.

Myth: "The United Nations and its affiliate institutions are critical of Israeli policies, but never attack Jews or engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric."

Fact:
Quote
The UN has condemned virtually every conceivable form of racism. It has established programs to combat racism and its multiple facets — including xenophobia — but had consistently refused to do the same against anti-Semitism. It was only on November 24, 1998, mor than 50 years after the UN's founding, that the word "anti-Semitism" was first mentioned in a UN resolution, appearing near the end of GA Res. A/53/623, "Elimination of Racism and Racial Discrimination."

Since the early 1970s, the UN itself has become permeated with anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist sentiment. The following examples illustrate how ugly the atmosphere has become:

“Is it not the Jews who are exploiting the American people and trying to debase them?”— Libyan UN Representative Ali Treiki.

“The Talmud says that if a Jew does not drink every year the blood of a non-Jewish man, he will be damned for eternity.” —Saudi Arabian delegate Marouf al-Dawalibi before the 1984 UN Human Rights Commission conference on religious tolerance. A similar remark was made by the Syrian Ambassador at a 1991 meeting, who insisted Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to make matzos.

On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the UN Human Rights Commission claimed the Israeli government had injected 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus. Despite the efforts of Israel, the United States and others, this blood libel remains on the UN record.

Myth: "The 1991 repeal of the resolution libeling Zionism proves that the UN is no longer biased against Israel."

Fact:
Quote
The vote did not signal an end to the UN's bias against Israel. The same month the General Assembly approved four new one-sided resolutions on the Middle East. On December 9, 1991, Israel's handling of the intifada was condemned by a vote of 150-2. On the 11th, it voted 104-2 for a resolution calling for a UN-sponsored peace conference that would include the PLO and voted 142-2 to condemn Israeli behavior toward Palestinians in the territories. On December 16 — the very day it repealed the Zionism measure — the UN voted 152-1, with the U.S. abstaining, to call on Israel to rescind a Knesset resolution declaring Jerusalem its capital, to demand Israel's withdrawal from “occupied territories,” including Jerusalem and to denounce Israeli administration of the Golan Heights. Another resolution expressed support for Palestinian self-determination and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

The repeal vote was marred by the fact that 13 of the 19 Arab countries — including those engaged in negotiations with Israel — Syria, Lebanon and Jordan — voted to retain the resolution, as did Saudi Arabia. Six, including Egypt — which lobbied against repeal — were absent.

The Arabs “voted once again to impugn the very birthright of the Jewish State,” the New York Times noted. “That even now most Arab states cling to a demeaning and vicious doctrine mars an otherwise belated triumph for sense and conscience.”

Myth: "Even if the General Assembly is biased, the Security Council has always been balanced in its treatment of the Middle East."

Fact
Quote
A careful analysis of the Security Council's actions on the Middle East shows it has been little better than the General Assembly in its treatment of Israel.

Candidates for the Security Council are proposed by regional blocs. In the Middle East, this means the Arab League and its allies are usually included. Israel, which joined the UN in 1949, has never been elected to the Security Council whereas at least 16 Arab League members have. Syria, a nation on the U.S. list of countries that sponsor terrorism, began a two-year term as a member of the Security Council in 2002 and served as president of the body in June 2002.

Debates on Israel abound, and the Security Council has repeatedly condemned the Jewish State, but not once has it adopted a resolution critical of the PLO or of Arab attacks on Israel. Emergency special sessions of the General Assembly are rare. No such session has ever been convened with respect to the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the slaughters in Rwanda, the disappearances in Zaire or the horrors of Bosnia. For nearly two decades, these sessions have been called primarily to condemn Israel.

Myth: "Israel's failure to implement UN resolutions is a violation of international law."

Fact:
Quote
UN resolutions are documents issued by political bodies and need to be interpreted in light of the constitution of those bodies. They represent the political viewpoints of those who support them rather than embodying any particular legal rules or principles. Resolutions can have moral and political force when they are perceived as expressing the agreed view of the international community, or the views of leading, powerful and respected nations.

The UN Charter (Articles 10 and 14) specifically empowers the General Assembly to make only nonbinding "recommendations." Assembly resolutions are only considered binding in relation to budgetary and internal procedural matters.

The legality of Security Council resolutions is more ambiguous. It is not clear if all Security Council resolutions are binding or only those adopted under Chapter 7 of the Charter.15 Under Article 25 of the Charter, UN member states are obligated to carry out "decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter," but it is unclear which kinds of resolutions are covered by the term "decisions." Regardless, it would be difficult to show that Israel has violated any Security Council resolutions on their wording and the Council has never sanctioned Israel for noncompliance.

Myth: “The United Nations has demonstrated equal concern for the lives of Israelis and Palestinians.”

fact:
Quote
While the UN routinely adopts resolutions critical of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, it has never adopted a single resolution unequivocally condemning violence against Israeli citizens. One of the most dramatic examples of the institution’s double-standard came in 2003 when Israel offered a draft resolution in the General Assembly for the first time in 27 years.

The resolution called for the protection of Israeli children from terrorism, but it did not receive enough support from the members of the General Assembly to even come to a vote. Israel had introduced the resolution in response to the murder of dozens of Israeli children in terrorist attacks, and after a similar resolution had been adopted by a UN committee (later adopted by the full Assembly) calling for the protection of Palestinian children from “Israeli aggression.” Israel's ambassador withdrew the proposed draft after it became clear that members of the nonaligned movement were determined to revise it in such a way that it would have ultimately been critical of Israel.16
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2004, 10:57:29 PM »
1) jews were not entitled to the land
2) israel regected the partition and the cease fire agreement anyway because it was too small, and showed little interest in peace intiatives
3) israel got arabs off the land by any means
4) the arab nations generally attacked the expanded part of israel not included in the partition
5) look at israel on a map palestine is cut in 2, and israel is much bigger than the two halves put together.
6) year on year israels terrirtory has expanded
7) arabs and in particular palestinians have incured far more deaths and injuries since israel was started
8 ) israel pays little attention to international watchdogs and organisations like the UN or even international law
9) israel has one of the largest nuclear stock piles of weapons in the world and has not signed up to the non proliferication treaty so is not subject to sanctions and opporates on a "no show no tell policy" while they expect the rest of the middle east to be put under international pressure to not produce nuclear weapons (eg iran)
10) in whats left of palestine the israeli army enjoys shooting small children, buldozing farms and houses to the ground, firering missles and tank shells into the refugee camps especially when large crowds are present, have military check points everywhere.
11) in 1947 the area allocated to the jews by the UN had a jewish population of 520,000. there are now over 4 million palestinian refugees at the present day.


who do u think got a raw deal?

1.never entitled to the Land?- So YOU'RE the authority on this metter?....
2.At What time exactly?-There was no fire untill Israel was atacked :-\....The closest time any side rejected a peace treaty, was the Last Camp david atempt when Arafat was granted 97% of the demand and declined.
3.Is this a joke?! Israel's original territory when the arab nations atacked was minimal, The only reason it was atacked was cause  Egypt and Syria had long term egagement plans, to which a possible Jewish state in the middle was an obstacle....
4.yea, That's why all this time we've  had Arabs that have been considered Israeli Citizents and had a great amount of support among them towards millitant groups in the authority, and to think these guys even have representation in our Parlament(the Kneset)....
5.And?- We were even bigger when we had the Sinai peninsula, and south lebanon-and we gave it up(for peace), how many territories of the same size of the Palestinian territories could feat in there?
6. oh really?!!....read this again^^^
7.As far as Palestinians go>  possible, never counted, not sure u have, don't forget their natural reproduction figures are also much higher, and so is the amount of hostillity, add that up, I think it makes sence. ::)
8.Really, you could say the same as for the Palestinian Authority and the rest of the Arab Nations, throughout these 56  years. Since the primary decision was to grant Israel with a state and they have nagated it's existance throughout this time, Plus, I wasn't aware that supporting terrorism is one of the UN's newest resolutions. And how come u care for UN's  resolutions suddenly, you disagree with the UN's decision just as much, I quote u:"1) jews were not entitled to the land"
9. So does the USA...And Israel expects nothing, we can only hope, it's a question of hostillity.
10. ENJOY'S?!!...yea, sure, that's our main mission to kill as many incocents as possible, we're the ones who proclaimed Jihad, And preached for KILLING and SLAUTERING as many people as possible cause it should prolly get us to heaven, so we coculd chill with 70 sumthin virgins....
11.And they could have a state already, if that was what their leadership really wanted....

A RAW DEAL?!...If they did get a raw deal it's only cause their own leadership was dealing....
« Last Edit: July 08, 2004, 11:05:55 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2004, 04:38:42 PM »
Sigh...

Some people just don't get it.

Myth: "Israel enjoys the same rights as any other member of the United Nations."

Fact:
Quote
A breakthrough in Israel’s fifty-year exclusion from UN bodies occurred on May 30, 2000, when Israel accepted an invitation to become a temporary member of the Western European and Others (WEOG) regional group. While only temporary, this historic step could finally end the UN’s discrimination against Israel and open the door to Israeli participation in the Security Council.

Israel has been the only UN member excluded from a regional group. Geographically, it belongs in the Asian Group; however, the Arab states have barred its membership. Without membership in a regional group, Israel cannot sit on the Security Council or other key UN bodies.

The WEOG is the only regional group which is not purely geographical, but rather geopolitical, namely a group of states that share a Western-Democratic common denominator. WEOG comprises 27 members: all the West European states; and the "others" — Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States.

Israel’s membership in the WEOG is severely limited. Every four years Israel will have to reapply for membership, since its status is only temporary. Israel was not allowed to present candidacies for open seats in any UN body for two years and is not able to compete for major UN bodies, such as the Economic and Social Council, for a longer period. Also, for the first two years, Israeli representatives were not allowed to run for positions on the UN Council.

Besides these restrictions, Israel is only allowed to participate in WEOG activities in the New York office of the UN. Israel is excluded from WEOG discussion and consultations at the UN offices in Geneva, Nairobi, Rome and Vienna; therefore, Israel cannot participate in UN talks on human rights, racism and a number of other issues handled in these offices.

In February 2003, Israel was elected to serve on the UN General Assembly Working Group on Disarmament, its first committee posting since 1961 (after 1961, the UN split the membership into regional groups and that was when Israel became isolated). An Israeli representative was elected as one of the group's three vice-chairmen and received votes from Iran and several Arab states. On the other hand, during the same month, an Israeli candidate was defeated for a position on the UN Committee on the rights of the child. The year before Israeli candidates also lost votes for positions on the UN Human Rights Committee, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women, and the UN Racial Discrimination Committee.

Myth: "The United Nations and its affiliate institutions are critical of Israeli policies, but never attack Jews or engage in anti-Semitic rhetoric."

Fact:
Quote
The UN has condemned virtually every conceivable form of racism. It has established programs to combat racism and its multiple facets — including xenophobia — but had consistently refused to do the same against anti-Semitism. It was only on November 24, 1998, mor than 50 years after the UN's founding, that the word "anti-Semitism" was first mentioned in a UN resolution, appearing near the end of GA Res. A/53/623, "Elimination of Racism and Racial Discrimination."

Since the early 1970s, the UN itself has become permeated with anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist sentiment. The following examples illustrate how ugly the atmosphere has become:

“Is it not the Jews who are exploiting the American people and trying to debase them?”— Libyan UN Representative Ali Treiki.

“The Talmud says that if a Jew does not drink every year the blood of a non-Jewish man, he will be damned for eternity.” —Saudi Arabian delegate Marouf al-Dawalibi before the 1984 UN Human Rights Commission conference on religious tolerance. A similar remark was made by the Syrian Ambassador at a 1991 meeting, who insisted Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to make matzos.

On March 11, 1997, the Palestinian representative to the UN Human Rights Commission claimed the Israeli government had injected 300 Palestinian children with the HIV virus. Despite the efforts of Israel, the United States and others, this blood libel remains on the UN record.

Myth: "The 1991 repeal of the resolution libeling Zionism proves that the UN is no longer biased against Israel."

Fact:
Quote
The vote did not signal an end to the UN's bias against Israel. The same month the General Assembly approved four new one-sided resolutions on the Middle East. On December 9, 1991, Israel's handling of the intifada was condemned by a vote of 150-2. On the 11th, it voted 104-2 for a resolution calling for a UN-sponsored peace conference that would include the PLO and voted 142-2 to condemn Israeli behavior toward Palestinians in the territories. On December 16 — the very day it repealed the Zionism measure — the UN voted 152-1, with the U.S. abstaining, to call on Israel to rescind a Knesset resolution declaring Jerusalem its capital, to demand Israel's withdrawal from “occupied territories,” including Jerusalem and to denounce Israeli administration of the Golan Heights. Another resolution expressed support for Palestinian self-determination and the right of return for Palestinian refugees.

The repeal vote was marred by the fact that 13 of the 19 Arab countries — including those engaged in negotiations with Israel — Syria, Lebanon and Jordan — voted to retain the resolution, as did Saudi Arabia. Six, including Egypt — which lobbied against repeal — were absent.

The Arabs “voted once again to impugn the very birthright of the Jewish State,” the New York Times noted. “That even now most Arab states cling to a demeaning and vicious doctrine mars an otherwise belated triumph for sense and conscience.”

Myth: "Even if the General Assembly is biased, the Security Council has always been balanced in its treatment of the Middle East."

Fact
Quote
A careful analysis of the Security Council's actions on the Middle East shows it has been little better than the General Assembly in its treatment of Israel.

Candidates for the Security Council are proposed by regional blocs. In the Middle East, this means the Arab League and its allies are usually included. Israel, which joined the UN in 1949, has never been elected to the Security Council whereas at least 16 Arab League members have. Syria, a nation on the U.S. list of countries that sponsor terrorism, began a two-year term as a member of the Security Council in 2002 and served as president of the body in June 2002.

Debates on Israel abound, and the Security Council has repeatedly condemned the Jewish State, but not once has it adopted a resolution critical of the PLO or of Arab attacks on Israel. Emergency special sessions of the General Assembly are rare. No such session has ever been convened with respect to the Chinese occupation of Tibet, the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, the Syrian occupation of Lebanon, the slaughters in Rwanda, the disappearances in Zaire or the horrors of Bosnia. For nearly two decades, these sessions have been called primarily to condemn Israel.

Myth: "Israel's failure to implement UN resolutions is a violation of international law."

Fact:
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UN resolutions are documents issued by political bodies and need to be interpreted in light of the constitution of those bodies. They represent the political viewpoints of those who support them rather than embodying any particular legal rules or principles. Resolutions can have moral and political force when they are perceived as expressing the agreed view of the international community, or the views of leading, powerful and respected nations.

The UN Charter (Articles 10 and 14) specifically empowers the General Assembly to make only nonbinding "recommendations." Assembly resolutions are only considered binding in relation to budgetary and internal procedural matters.

The legality of Security Council resolutions is more ambiguous. It is not clear if all Security Council resolutions are binding or only those adopted under Chapter 7 of the Charter.15 Under Article 25 of the Charter, UN member states are obligated to carry out "decisions of the Security Council in accordance with the present Charter," but it is unclear which kinds of resolutions are covered by the term "decisions." Regardless, it would be difficult to show that Israel has violated any Security Council resolutions on their wording and the Council has never sanctioned Israel for noncompliance.

Myth: “The United Nations has demonstrated equal concern for the lives of Israelis and Palestinians.”

fact:
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While the UN routinely adopts resolutions critical of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, it has never adopted a single resolution unequivocally condemning violence against Israeli citizens. One of the most dramatic examples of the institution’s double-standard came in 2003 when Israel offered a draft resolution in the General Assembly for the first time in 27 years.

The resolution called for the protection of Israeli children from terrorism, but it did not receive enough support from the members of the General Assembly to even come to a vote. Israel had introduced the resolution in response to the murder of dozens of Israeli children in terrorist attacks, and after a similar resolution had been adopted by a UN committee (later adopted by the full Assembly) calling for the protection of Palestinian children from “Israeli aggression.” Israel's ambassador withdrew the proposed draft after it became clear that members of the nonaligned movement were determined to revise it in such a way that it would have ultimately been critical of Israel.16
israeli propergander. please don't post in these threads if u can't think for youself, all you do is follow the republican line which is very generous to israelis and not a good mediator of peace in the current administration.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

Don Rizzle

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2004, 04:48:31 PM »
1) jews were not entitled to the land
2) israel regected the partition and the cease fire agreement anyway because it was too small, and showed little interest in peace intiatives
3) israel got arabs off the land by any means
4) the arab nations generally attacked the expanded part of israel not included in the partition
5) look at israel on a map palestine is cut in 2, and israel is much bigger than the two halves put together.
6) year on year israels terrirtory has expanded
7) arabs and in particular palestinians have incured far more deaths and injuries since israel was started
8 ) israel pays little attention to international watchdogs and organisations like the UN or even international law
9) israel has one of the largest nuclear stock piles of weapons in the world and has not signed up to the non proliferication treaty so is not subject to sanctions and opporates on a "no show no tell policy" while they expect the rest of the middle east to be put under international pressure to not produce nuclear weapons (eg iran)
10) in whats left of palestine the israeli army enjoys shooting small children, buldozing farms and houses to the ground, firering missles and tank shells into the refugee camps especially when large crowds are present, have military check points everywhere.
11) in 1947 the area allocated to the jews by the UN had a jewish population of 520,000. there are now over 4 million palestinian refugees at the present day.


who do u think got a raw deal?

1.never entitled to the Land?- So YOU'RE the authority on this metter?....
2.At What time exactly?-There was no fire untill Israel was atacked :-\....The closest time any side rejected a peace treaty, was the Last Camp david atempt when Arafat was granted 97% of the demand and declined.
3.Is this a joke?! Israel's original territory when the arab nations atacked was minimal, The only reason it was atacked was cause  Egypt and Syria had long term egagement plans, to which a possible Jewish state in the middle was an obstacle....
4.yea, That's why all this time we've  had Arabs that have been considered Israeli Citizents and had a great amount of support among them towards millitant groups in the authority, and to think these guys even have representation in our Parlament(the Kneset)....
5.And?- We were even bigger when we had the Sinai peninsula, and south lebanon-and we gave it up(for peace), how many territories of the same size of the Palestinian territories could feat in there?
6. oh really?!!....read this again^^^
7.As far as Palestinians go>  possible, never counted, not sure u have, don't forget their natural reproduction figures are also much higher, and so is the amount of hostillity, add that up, I think it makes sence. ::)
8.Really, you could say the same as for the Palestinian Authority and the rest of the Arab Nations, throughout these 56  years. Since the primary decision was to grant Israel with a state and they have nagated it's existance throughout this time, Plus, I wasn't aware that supporting terrorism is one of the UN's newest resolutions. And how come u care for UN's  resolutions suddenly, you disagree with the UN's decision just as much, I quote u:"1) jews were not entitled to the land"
9. So does the USA...And Israel expects nothing, we can only hope, it's a question of hostillity.
10. ENJOY'S?!!...yea, sure, that's our main mission to kill as many incocents as possible, we're the ones who proclaimed Jihad, And preached for KILLING and SLAUTERING as many people as possible cause it should prolly get us to heaven, so we coculd chill with 70 sumthin virgins....
11.And they could have a state already, if that was what their leadership really wanted....

A RAW DEAL?!...If they did get a raw deal it's only cause their own leadership was dealing....
you mean u were defeated in south lebanon it became to bloody for u.
and with reference to u not being entitled  to the land in 1948 it wasn't in the juristiction of the UN to devide up countries.`
you would have thaught a newly formed country would have obide by what the internation community tells it then through the body which governs everyone and should be forced to comply. but instead isreal is usualy shielded by america and america needs to learn to be an honest and unbiased friend to both sides for equality peace to last in the region.

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

Woodrow

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Re: Bulldozers begin Ariel barrier in another land grab by Israel
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2004, 05:37:08 PM »
israeli propergander. please don't post in these threads if u can't think for youself, all you do is follow the republican line which is very generous to israelis and not a good mediator of peace in the current administration.

Listen up you little tool. You yourself said that you are new to this topic of study. How are you gonna dismiss this as "propaganda" when It can be backed up by facts?

You're biased, ignorant of history, and pitifully mistaken in your views. You don't have a moral leg to stand on, so you dismiss information that goes against your views as propaganda. YOU need to think for yourself and get your head out of your ass.

I Geezy LIVES in Israel and deals with this shit everyday. How are you gonna come in, with your new information you got off of biased websites, and tell him what his country needs to do?!

« Last Edit: July 09, 2004, 05:41:22 PM by Woodrow »