Author Topic: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???  (Read 471 times)

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2004, 11:32:21 AM »
Nope. I'd say it was an indication of how Generous the United States is. We don't have to do shit, but we do anyways.

Every country donate aid, and 17 of the countries give more of their budgets, don't make it seem like U.S. is so kind and special for doing it.
Typical American arrogance.
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2004, 11:35:25 AM »
Nope. I'd say it was an indication of how Generous the United States is. We don't have to do shit, but we do anyways.

Every country donate aid, and 17 of the countries give more of their budgets, don't make it seem like U.S. is so kind and special for doing it.
Typical American arrogance.


Jome... A couple of questions.

1.) Name me one country that gives more foreign aid per year than the United States.
2.) If you had a job where you made 50 dollars per hour but only worked for 5 hours a week, would that be better than a job where you made 20 dollars an hour but worked 40 hours a week?
3.) Why is it arrogant to say that we donate more money than any other country out there?
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2004, 11:42:10 AM »
Let's say you're homeless.

4 people come up to you and say: "We are each going to give you 50 dollars to help you out."

Would you like that better than if one person came up to you and said: "I'm gonna give you 600 dollars to help you out." ???

It's pure logic.

Also lay off the personal attacks. You don't see me dissing you personally because of your views do you?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2004, 11:44:55 AM by Woodrow »
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2004, 11:48:15 AM »
Jome... A couple of questions.

1.) Name me one country that gives more foreign aid per year than the United States.
2.) If you had a job where you made 50 dollars per hour but only worked for 5 hours a week, would that be better than a job where you made 20 dollars an hour but worked 40 hours a week?
3.) Why is it arrogant to say that we donate more money than any other country out there?

1. I already named 16 countries that spend MORE of their budget on aid than U.S., U.S probably have as much citizens as these 16 countries COMBINED, so judging the total amount would be useless.

2. Yes, it would be better. Working only 5 hours for a very decent 50 dollars/hour would mean that I could easily take another job.

3. I think it's arrogant when one of the richest countries in the world have the attitude "We don't really have to give jack shit, we're just so generous and kind that we give"
It's also arrogant to compare a country with 294 million people to countries with 3-50 million people without using the proper perspective.

Quote
Let's say you're homeless.

4 people come up to you and say: "We are each going to give you 50 dollars to help you out."

Would you like that better than if one person came up to you and said: "I'm gonna give you 600 dollars to help you out."

It's pure logic.

You missed a vital point.
If the $600 man you're referring to, is supposed to be the American "samaritan", then you forgot about the statistics.
Here's how it should be:

If 10 Americans all said they would give you $46 each, would you like that better than if 1 Norwegian offered you $333.. ??
Of course the Americans would give more money in total, but I'd still think that the Norwegian is nicer because he's offering as much money as 7 of the Americans do combined, on his own.

 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2004, 11:56:20 AM »
Jome... A couple of questions.

1.) Name me one country that gives more foreign aid per year than the United States.
2.) If you had a job where you made 50 dollars per hour but only worked for 5 hours a week, would that be better than a job where you made 20 dollars an hour but worked 40 hours a week?
3.) Why is it arrogant to say that we donate more money than any other country out there?

1. I already named 16 countries that spend MORE of their budget on aid than U.S., U.S probably have as much citizens as these 16 countries COMBINED, so judging the total amount would be useless.

2. Yes, it would be better. Working only 5 hours for a very decent 50 dollars/hour would mean that I could easily take another job.

3. I think it's arrogant when one of the richest countries in the world have the attitude "We don't really have to give jack shit, we're just so generous and kind that we give"
It's also arrogant to compare a country with 294 million people to countries with 3-50 million people without using the proper perspective.

Who cares how much a country gives out of it's budget? Do you really think that makes a country "Better" than another just because it gives more in it's budget than another? In my book, it's the bottom line that counts. I could care less how much money each country gives out of it's GDP. It's the final dollar amount that counts.

You missed a vital point.
If the $600 man you're referring to, is supposed to be the American "samaritan", then you forgot about the statistics.
Here's how it should be:

If 10 Americans all said they would give you $46 each, would you like that better than if 1 Norwegian offered you $333.. ??
Of course the Americans would give more money in total, but I'd still think that the Norwegian is nicer because he's offering as much money as 7 of the Americans do combined, on his own.

Let me explain it to you. In that last analogy, a country = person.


 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2004, 12:08:26 PM »
Who cares how much a country gives out of it's budget? Do you really think that makes a country "Better" than another just because it gives more in it's budget than another? In my book, it's the bottom line that counts. I could care less how much money each country gives out of it's GDP. It's the final dollar amount that counts.


OK, then we'll count up all the European countries contributions (727 million people or so).. "Hurray, we give the most money!"  ::)
See how backwards it is.. ?
No.. ?
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2004, 12:10:04 PM »
Who cares how much a country gives out of it's budget? Do you really think that makes a country "Better" than another just because it gives more in it's budget than another? In my book, it's the bottom line that counts. I could care less how much money each country gives out of it's GDP. It's the final dollar amount that counts.


OK, then we'll count up all the European countries contributions (727 million people or so).. "Hurray, we give the most money!"  ::)
See how backwards it is.. ?
No.. ?


Why would you count up all the people in Europe? I thought we were dealing with countires?
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2004, 12:14:05 PM »
To make the comparison fair.  ::)
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2004, 12:20:16 PM »
I put up a poll in the Gspot... Lets see what happens. I didn't vote. I'm not going to respond either.

Don't vote either to make it even ok?
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2004, 12:27:14 PM »
I put up a poll in the Gspot... Lets see what happens. I didn't vote. I'm not going to respond either.

Don't vote either to make it even ok?

lol, it's the same thing as you posted 20 minutes ago..
Obviously you'd want the most money, but that doesn't mean that it's fair to compare 5 people to 1 man, even if the 1 man give more than all the others combined!!

Quote
I'm not going to respond either.

SO long for that, that was 7 minutes.

 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2004, 12:29:32 PM »


Quote
I'm not going to respond either.

SO long for that, that was 7 minutes.



I merely clarified the question.

I saw you voted.

 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2004, 12:37:06 PM »
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2004, 12:59:29 PM »
I don't see how...

Norway = Homeless person

I don't see how....

50 bucks is 13 times the amount of 20 bucks.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2004, 02:08:38 PM by Woodrow »
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2004, 02:22:57 PM »
I don't see how...

Norway = Homeless person

I don't see how....

50 bucks is 13 times the amount of 20 bucks.


Do you see how...

Norway = 4.5 million people
U.S. = 294 million people

You don't have to finish high school to see that U.S. is more likely to have more money than Norway.

 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2004, 02:25:03 PM »
Jome, You don't need to break out the personal insults. It's just petty and you shouldn't mix up a debate with your own anger.

I don't think Norway can be considered "Homeless" compared to the US.
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2004, 02:37:53 PM »
Jome, You don't need to break out the personal insults. It's just petty and you shouldn't mix up a debate with your own anger.

I don't think Norway can be considered "Homeless" compared to the US.

There was no insult.
I just said that anybody can see that you can't compare 2 countries on the same criterias when one of the countries is 65 times more populated.
I do not compare Norway with Monaco's 32.000 citizens, neither do I compare ourselves with India's 1 billion citizens, but size doesn't matter to you.. ?

Let me ask you this:

* You seriously think that every country have the exact same amount of money to spend on military, budgets, aid, etc. ?

They DON'T, and that's why you put it into "perspectives", or use criterias, to make the comparison fair.
That's why U.S. is ranked #8 on the life standard index, instead of #1, something they would have been if you only counted money, and forgot that they have 50 times more citizens than the average country.

I just can't believe why you can not understand the bold part.. ???


 

Montana00

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2004, 10:14:35 AM »
I see what jome is saying. But why on earth should america have to match your countries "$$ for aid per citizen"? So your country gives more money per citizen.....

So if a country with 1000 people gave $1000 per citizen...Does that mean that they are better then both of our countries because they gave more per citizen? NO

Bottom line is america has alot more citizens, so we dont have to give that much per citizen. And in the end it doesnt matter how many citizens you have, because the only thing any country cares about is the total amount.
 

Thirteen

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2004, 10:37:06 AM »
^^^ good point on the bottom

ok jome here's some situations:

your mother is in the hospital for a lung transplant. you need to raise $60,000 for her stay in the hospital. what you're trying to say is you'd rather have 20 people pitch in $1000 each and you'd be happy because those people are generous instead of 5000 people give $12 each

when your country has been decimated by floods, earthquakes, war, and AIDS outbreak...the bottom line is all that counts. it's good that your country gives more than another country but generosity doesn't rebuild countries, money does

and quite complaing about the situation not being fair, you were gloating that your country was in the top, you're always bragging how your country is the richest, too bad the richest people in your country doesn't add up to masses of people
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2004, 11:28:29 AM »
Quote
you're always bragging how your country is the richest,

Yeah, you would know.. you've been registered for one day.  ::)


So if a country with 1000 people gave $1000 per citizen...Does that mean that they are better then both of our countries because they gave more per citizen? NO

Yes they would be better.
They give more of what they have.

Back on topic again, I haven't seen a good argument to why U.S. should not be in the U.N. yet, all arguments have been torn apart.


 

Montana00

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2004, 12:04:30 PM »
no they have to give more per citzen because then they wouldnt be giving that much money, and then poor countries would think that your being cheap on them.
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2004, 12:08:30 PM »
no they have to give more per citzen because then they wouldnt be giving that much money, and then poor countries would think that your being cheap on them.

 ???
Doesn't make much sense..


 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2004, 12:30:28 PM »
The reasoning goes that...

By supporting an organization like this, we are involuntarily supporting dictatorships and/or repressive countries and giving them legitimacy as well as a place to air their hate on an international scale. A "Foxes are in charge of the chicken coop" type argument.

I don't agree that we should get out of the UN, but rather I think the UN needs serious overhauling.
 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2004, 12:45:08 PM »
Typical American arrogance.

So the moment I say something good about my country I'm arrogant, but you can post whatever you want up praising yours?

Human Development Report 2004

Norway holding it down, for the 4th year in a row..  :)


 

Woodrow

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Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2004, 12:47:04 PM »
Why are you so concerned with how much each person gives?
 

Jome

Re: Why does so many Americans dislike U.N. ???
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2004, 01:09:30 PM »
The reasoning goes that...

By supporting an organization like this, we are involuntarily supporting dictatorships and/or repressive countries and giving them legitimacy as well as a place to air their hate on an international scale. A "Foxes are in charge of the chicken coop" type argument.

I don't agree that we should get out of the UN, but rather I think the UN needs serious overhauling.


Finally some reasonable arguments..  ;)
I do think that U.N. can make these countries better though, U.N. is sanctioning totalistic regimes, they inspect the countries, and they co-operate with Red Cross, "Doctors Without Boundaries", Amnesty Int., and other goodwill organizations, to gradually improve these countries.
Bombing them on the other hand, now that's what creates the most trouble/hate, and leads to even more war.
Take Iraq e.g., they're even worse off now..

Why are you so concerned with how much each person gives?

Not so much about each person, but I think each country should give money according to criterias, like how many citizens they have, how wealthy they are, how high the living standard in general is, how much money the government use on other (maybe even unnecessary) things, ya know..
I'm more peace minded, and when I see countries using hundreds of billions on war, and 1/30th of this on aid, I'm not the only one who get concerned..   :-\