Author Topic: Why would anyone really think God exists? ... or even believe in Religion?  (Read 1459 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?

« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 12:17:51 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

7even

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?



1. if nothing can emerge out of nothing, how can there be a God in the first place?
2. from your last lines, I regard that you think humans are way too great to just be there without being created by a higher being. I have to say youre dead wrong. Human arent all that. Definitely not. We were just blessed by evolution, so that we became the smartest folks on earth, but that is where it stops.
3. so if God created everything, and humans have a soul and shit, how do you define humans? let's say humans are evolutionized apes. so, during the process from apes to human, when was it actually homo sapiens and when was it still a dumb creature? when did the soul fly into the being!? also, how come so much time elapsed until these cool humans emerged. I mean, Dinosaurs were here WAY longer than we, and we will destroy ourselves WAY faster than the Dinosaurs were wiped out. Hm, OR, Do Dinosaurs have had souls too? Are Dinosaurs in heaven too?
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?



1. if nothing can emerge out of nothing, how can there be a God in the first place?
2. from your last lines, I regard that you think humans are way too great to just be there without being created by a higher being. I have to say youre dead wrong. Human arent all that. Definitely not. We were just blessed by evolution, so that we became the smartest folks on earth, but that is where it stops.
3. so if God created everything, and humans have a soul and shit, how do you define humans? let's say humans are evolutionized apes. so, during the process from apes to human, when was it actually homo sapiens and when was it still a dumb creature? when did the soul fly into the being!? also, how come so much time elapsed until these cool humans emerged. I mean, Dinosaurs were here WAY longer than we, and we will destroy ourselves WAY faster than the Dinosaurs were wiped out. Hm, OR, Do Dinosaurs have had souls too? Are Dinosaurs in heaven too?


1.Here's the thing, nothing can emerge out of emptyness, that's what physics preaches, it's true as far as every possible metter in the universe goes, if you take GOD as metter or as a physical object than your question is adequate, However I don't, I have no idea how to define it in earthly\human terminology, I don't think anyone can, may be you can, that's why acording to you God couldn't have just existed--> something needed to create him too as far as human logic goes, right?---Well, before there was anything, before there was even "time" do you think such definitions as "before" and "after" existed?!....in an emptyness, with no time, no metter, no space as well, complete un-comprehandable nothingness....
2.Oh no, I don't see humans as so Great that they just had to be created by a higher being but only as a creature which could be self concious enough to question it's own creation and evolvement, questions through which it could come to a conclusion it can't comprehand the creation to it's fullest and still be aware of it, it's a paradox if you haven't realised by now---Knowing all the basic rules up on which the universe opperates and to be unable to explain it's start, since it's start defies it's own rules, all we know is this, mathmaticlly as far as probabillity goes,  The conditions on planet earth are among the most unlikely and coincidencial in the universe and than billions of years later by that same coincidence a creature evolves to a point it could question it's own existance....doesn't it seem like some kind of a pattern?
3.Here you go talking about souls and stuff, If you've noticed I haven't said a word about souls, I haven't said a thing about the bible's interpretation of history, mainly because it's very perplexing and complex.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 07:00:52 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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oh one more thing as for" being blessed by evolution" as you noted, did you know that Darwin before his death admited his theory to be incorect?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 11:46:46 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Montana00

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How did God come to existance?
im not being a smartass, this question goes to anyone who can answer it. im curious.
The bible states that the human mind is to "weak" comprehend God or creation.
....ok.
 

Trauma-san

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

In my opinion, many times (not all) it comes down to two things.

1. They've had lonely depressing horrible childhoods
2. Their parents didn't believe and taught them it was 'intelligent' not to believe in stories a.k.a. religion
2. They don't want to believe that they're not in control of things
 

Thirteen

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this thread is like trying to convince someone why my favorite color is blue....or that america gives the most on foreign aid  ;D
 

Trauma-san

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Inspired by I Geezy's intelligent discussion on the topic, I thought I'd say one more thing.

In my opinion, there's 3 things humans cannot understand even enough to make intelligent conversation about,

1. God
2. Time
3. Space

We don't understand any of the three, because all three are impossible to our understanding of the world.  So ultimately, you can't MAKE someone believe what you believe, or think what you think about any of the three, because any understanding of them is unexpressionable.  You may, if you're lucky, one day just 'feel' or be enlightened to a better understanding of any of the three, but you often won't be able to discuss it or express it.   
 

Trauma-san

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OH, and just to further complicate the discussion, the next two things on the list are

4. Love
5. Music

Which are a LITTLE BIT more understandable, but still very much a mystery to most of us. 
 

7even

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

In my opinion, many times (not all) it comes down to two things.

1. They've had lonely depressing horrible childhoods
2. Their parents didn't believe and taught them it was 'intelligent' not to believe in stories a.k.a. religion
2. They don't want to believe that they're not in control of things

disgusting.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

7even

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?



1. if nothing can emerge out of nothing, how can there be a God in the first place?
2. from your last lines, I regard that you think humans are way too great to just be there without being created by a higher being. I have to say youre dead wrong. Human arent all that. Definitely not. We were just blessed by evolution, so that we became the smartest folks on earth, but that is where it stops.
3. so if God created everything, and humans have a soul and shit, how do you define humans? let's say humans are evolutionized apes. so, during the process from apes to human, when was it actually homo sapiens and when was it still a dumb creature? when did the soul fly into the being!? also, how come so much time elapsed until these cool humans emerged. I mean, Dinosaurs were here WAY longer than we, and we will destroy ourselves WAY faster than the Dinosaurs were wiped out. Hm, OR, Do Dinosaurs have had souls too? Are Dinosaurs in heaven too?


1.Here's the thing, nothing can emerge out of emptyness, that's what physics preaches, it's true as far as every possible metter in the universe goes, if you take GOD as metter or as a physical object than your question is adequate, However I don't, I have no idea how to define it in earthly\human terminology, I don't think anyone can, may be you can, that's why acording to you God couldn't have just existed--> something needed to create him too as far as human logic goes, right?---Well, before there was anything, before there was even "time" do you think such definitions as "before" and "after" existed?!....in an emptyness, with no time, no metter, no space as well, complete un-comprehandable nothingness....
2.Oh no, I don't see humans as so Great that they just had to be created by a higher being but only as a creature which could be self concious enough to question it's own creation and evolvement, questions through which it could come to a conclusion it can't comprehand the creation to it's fullest and still be aware of it, it's a paradox if you haven't realised by now---Knowing all the basic rules up on which the universe opperates and to be unable to explain it's start, since it's start defies it's own rules, all we know is this, mathmaticlly as far as probabillity goes,  The conditions on planet earth are among the most unlikely and coincidencial in the universe and than billions of years later by that same coincidence a creature evolves to a point it could question it's own existance....doesn't it seem like some kind of a pattern?
3.Here you go talking about souls and stuff, If you've noticed I haven't said a word about souls, I haven't said a thing about the bible's interpretation of history, mainly because it's very perplexing and complex.

Your theories remind me of the ones of Thomas Aquin from ~1500 ... and I thought that was out-dated. It's nothing shorter of a coincidence than your birth. I mean, your father has millions of sperm-thingys and the exact one did it make trough at the exact time, and this before when your parents were born, and before when their parents were born. No imagine that - and most amazing, it happens a million times a day!
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Trauma-san

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

In my opinion, many times (not all) it comes down to two things.

1. They've had lonely depressing horrible childhoods
2. Their parents didn't believe and taught them it was 'intelligent' not to believe in stories a.k.a. religion
2. They don't want to believe that they're not in control of things

disgusting.

Yeah, it's disgusting for me to say that, but alright for you to say people are idots for believing in God.  LOL Realize your hypocricy. 
 

Montana00

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

In my opinion, many times (not all) it comes down to two things.

1. They've had lonely depressing horrible childhoods
2. Their parents didn't believe and taught them it was 'intelligent' not to believe in stories a.k.a. religion
2. They don't want to believe that they're not in control of things
actually thats really true. Especially 1
 

white Boy

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

In my opinion, many times (not all) it comes down to two things.

1. They've had lonely depressing horrible childhoods
2. Their parents didn't believe and taught them it was 'intelligent' not to believe in stories a.k.a. religion
2. They don't want to believe that they're not in control of things
i consider myself fully athiast

1. nope, not depressing at all
2. my parents were not really religious, but not athiast, they did not preach to me, did not force religion on me, gave me freedom
3. i feel im in control of everything, i mean, id love for there to be a god, and me have a happy jolly life, but the truth is, people who are good, and havbe done nothing, die miserbly, so for sojmeone to say, god is watching over us, is bullshit.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 11:33:03 AM by white boy »
 

mauzip

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

That's easy to answer.

If one is not raised with religion, (in most cases) this person doesn't believe. It's that simple.

I'm not raised with religion, so I look at religion more down to earth than anyone who actually is raised with religion.


If you are raised by Musims you are very likely to become (be) a Muslim and if you are raised by Christians you are very likely to become (be) Christian. In other words: it's all indoctrination ;)
 

Sikotic™

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Why would anyone NOT think God exsists?

That's easy to answer.

If one is not raised with religion, (in most cases) this person doesn't believe. It's that simple.

I'm not raised with religion, so I look at religion more down to earth than anyone who actually is raised with religion.


If you are raised by Musims you are very likely to become (be) a Muslim and if you are raised by Christians you are very likely to become (be) Christian. In other words: it's all indoctrination ;)

Many man people who were not raised with religion have become religious. There are also many people who were raised religious and once they get out on their own, do their own thing.

Another thing, anyone who says they are in complete control of things is an egotistical fool. An earthquake can come and demolish all of your belonging and kill off all of your loved ones and there isn't a single thing you can do about it. You can, however, think about it two ways: the earthquake is an phenomenon set up by God (whether or not he actually caused the earthquake to happen at that time and location is dependant on whether you think God is still active in the world or not) or that it was a force of mother nature -- a geological phenomenon.

The fact of the matter is that everything goes back to creation vs. evolution, during the period of creation which no one was alive to prove whether God does or does not exsist. So, no one can disprove God's exsistence. Either belief takes faith
 

Z the laidback Virus

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You need to have more faith in the case of creation because it's main point is, as said, unprovable...God himself. While evolution is mostly based on observable,provable facts.

Also, the massive occurence of convergism in nature is big proof of evolution.
Take birds,bats and insects. Each one of them can usually fly ( at least,that's the ancestral case). Though they can all fly, their wings are extremely different.
In insects, the wings consist of altered 'scales' from the back.
In birds, forelimbs with fused fingers and feathers attached to them build up the wing.
In bats, the hands have extremely elongated fingers with leathery skin stretched inbetween those fingers,the arms,the sides of the body, the legs and the tail.

Now all three of them can fly efficiently yet they have completely different designs. If all flying creatures would have been created by God...why not give them all the same equipment? That's illogical, but them evolving from different origins and thus being different ( a la cars and trains) is a good reason for them differing so much in structure while they do the same thing.



Look at this pic and check the difference between the bird and the bat, and the similairity of the bat to the human, indicating they're much more closely related to each other and have descended and thus,evolved from a common ancestor.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 01:09:55 PM by Z the laidback Virus »
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Now_Im_Not_Banned

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If all flying creatures would have been created by God...why not give them all the same equipment?


Helicopters and Airplanes fly differently, and they were CREATED by human.
 

7even

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why would anyone create this terrible bullshit in the first place? LOL. musta be a bored dude.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Machiavelli

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This Debate could go on for Century's. Well it are ready has.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?



1. if nothing can emerge out of nothing, how can there be a God in the first place?
2. from your last lines, I regard that you think humans are way too great to just be there without being created by a higher being. I have to say youre dead wrong. Human arent all that. Definitely not. We were just blessed by evolution, so that we became the smartest folks on earth, but that is where it stops.
3. so if God created everything, and humans have a soul and shit, how do you define humans? let's say humans are evolutionized apes. so, during the process from apes to human, when was it actually homo sapiens and when was it still a dumb creature? when did the soul fly into the being!? also, how come so much time elapsed until these cool humans emerged. I mean, Dinosaurs were here WAY longer than we, and we will destroy ourselves WAY faster than the Dinosaurs were wiped out. Hm, OR, Do Dinosaurs have had souls too? Are Dinosaurs in heaven too?


1.Here's the thing, nothing can emerge out of emptyness, that's what physics preaches, it's true as far as every possible metter in the universe goes, if you take GOD as metter or as a physical object than your question is adequate, However I don't, I have no idea how to define it in earthly\human terminology, I don't think anyone can, may be you can, that's why acording to you God couldn't have just existed--> something needed to create him too as far as human logic goes, right?---Well, before there was anything, before there was even "time" do you think such definitions as "before" and "after" existed?!....in an emptyness, with no time, no metter, no space as well, complete un-comprehandable nothingness....
2.Oh no, I don't see humans as so Great that they just had to be created by a higher being but only as a creature which could be self concious enough to question it's own creation and evolvement, questions through which it could come to a conclusion it can't comprehand the creation to it's fullest and still be aware of it, it's a paradox if you haven't realised by now---Knowing all the basic rules up on which the universe opperates and to be unable to explain it's start, since it's start defies it's own rules, all we know is this, mathmaticlly as far as probabillity goes,  The conditions on planet earth are among the most unlikely and coincidencial in the universe and than billions of years later by that same coincidence a creature evolves to a point it could question it's own existance....doesn't it seem like some kind of a pattern?
3.Here you go talking about souls and stuff, If you've noticed I haven't said a word about souls, I haven't said a thing about the bible's interpretation of history, mainly because it's very perplexing and complex.

Your theories remind me of the ones of Thomas Aquin from ~1500 ... and I thought that was out-dated. It's nothing shorter of a coincidence than your birth. I mean, your father has millions of sperm-thingys and the exact one did it make trough at the exact time, and this before when your parents were born, and before when their parents were born. No imagine that - and most amazing, it happens a million times a day!


Let's assume The Creation of the universe and the evolvement of it into it's current state is by Coincidence, Let's assume that the creation of Earth was merely by Coincidence as well, Let's also assume Earth's perfect equilibrium within it's environment in space is also by Coincidence, it's distance from the Sun is too, as far as we're concerned. The fact water is in it's most unlikely condition in the universe here on earth is by Coincidence, because you know that universally the most common  condition for water is "frozen", and all these Coincidences lead to the creation of life on earth which also makes the creation of life to be by Coincidence,every evolvement and every birth of every human being is of course also by Coincidence and so is every thing ever created, any existing metter reflect's Coincidence through it, in fact Im starting to wonder what is not by Coincidence acording to you, can we render a person deciding to undergo plastic surgery as a coincidence too?- No?! because there's that whole thing with decision, with "Choice", when you decide to do something and then do it, it's no longer rendered as "by coincidence", right?.....but wait, The creation of this person was by Coincidence meaning that whatever he does is by Coincidence too right?....How is it possible that in a never ending sequence of coincidences suddenly comes a moment when it's no longer by Coincidence?--- The Key to answering this question is "choice"....And was there choice before there were humans?!....

p.s
"God gave us choice."
oh one more thing, In this post When you see the term "Coincidence" you should just replace it with "God"  or "creator"....Believing in coincidence can  also be defined as a religion, it's just like believing in GOD, This way you just don't need to explore The Creator's essence, it's very convenient because you will be able to sleep at night.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2004, 12:48:03 AM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Z the laidback Virus

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Helicoptors and planes indeed have different designs,but they fly in different ways don't they? This means they aren't doing the same thing and is a reason for their change in structure.
Z knows about ALL your inner conflicts..
 

Now_Im_Not_Banned

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Helicoptors and planes indeed have different designs,but they fly in different ways don't they? This means they aren't doing the same thing and is a reason for their change in structure.


Bats and birds fly in different ways...Have you ever seen a bat fly?
 

mauzip

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This quote is for the religious people over here...

"What is it, is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?" -Friedrich Nietzsche
 

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It's interesting that a person's motive for believing in God could be used to negate his(God's) exitance, like saying " If someone's life is shitty he's gonna believe in god for the sake of hope, to endure the hard times, meaning that God is actually an illusion, Opium for the people if you will, a Psychological protection mechanism, distortion of reallity"----->How would u explain rich and sucsessfull people who believe in God than?!---> easilly, the more you have to loose the more apprehensive you are as for loosing it, a stressfull situation, a frustration equivalent to that of a poor person, and again the person is searching for a refuge, and finds GOD."

A discussion concerning the psychological motives that bring a person to believe in some fictional saviour is off-throwing and is a playground for speculation since it's about the person's subjective preception of GOD. The questions you need to ask in order to try and comprehand GOD are diffrend, What triggered the begining( Not what was in the begning), What started it? How do you define GOD?
Is GOD a parallel for love or hope in your mind? - If so, you're getting into your subjective reallity conditioned viewes again. Can something emerge out of nothing? phisiclly NO, than how do you explain the start of every metter in the universe? What is perfect emptyness? what was there before there was anything? In a Random combination of possible consequenses how come a creature that can ask itself these questions was produced?



1. if nothing can emerge out of nothing, how can there be a God in the first place?
2. from your last lines, I regard that you think humans are way too great to just be there without being created by a higher being. I have to say youre dead wrong. Human arent all that. Definitely not. We were just blessed by evolution, so that we became the smartest folks on earth, but that is where it stops.
3. so if God created everything, and humans have a soul and shit, how do you define humans? let's say humans are evolutionized apes. so, during the process from apes to human, when was it actually homo sapiens and when was it still a dumb creature? when did the soul fly into the being!? also, how come so much time elapsed until these cool humans emerged. I mean, Dinosaurs were here WAY longer than we, and we will destroy ourselves WAY faster than the Dinosaurs were wiped out. Hm, OR, Do Dinosaurs have had souls too? Are Dinosaurs in heaven too?


1.Here's the thing, nothing can emerge out of emptyness, that's what physics preaches, it's true as far as every possible metter in the universe goes, if you take GOD as metter or as a physical object than your question is adequate, However I don't, I have no idea how to define it in earthly\human terminology, I don't think anyone can, may be you can, that's why acording to you God couldn't have just existed--> something needed to create him too as far as human logic goes, right?---Well, before there was anything, before there was even "time" do you think such definitions as "before" and "after" existed?!....in an emptyness, with no time, no metter, no space as well, complete un-comprehandable nothingness....
2.Oh no, I don't see humans as so Great that they just had to be created by a higher being but only as a creature which could be self concious enough to question it's own creation and evolvement, questions through which it could come to a conclusion it can't comprehand the creation to it's fullest and still be aware of it, it's a paradox if you haven't realised by now---Knowing all the basic rules up on which the universe opperates and to be unable to explain it's start, since it's start defies it's own rules, all we know is this, mathmaticlly as far as probabillity goes,  The conditions on planet earth are among the most unlikely and coincidencial in the universe and than billions of years later by that same coincidence a creature evolves to a point it could question it's own existance....doesn't it seem like some kind of a pattern?
3.Here you go talking about souls and stuff, If you've noticed I haven't said a word about souls, I haven't said a thing about the bible's interpretation of history, mainly because it's very perplexing and complex.

Your theories remind me of the ones of Thomas Aquin from ~1500 ... and I thought that was out-dated. It's nothing shorter of a coincidence than your birth. I mean, your father has millions of sperm-thingys and the exact one did it make trough at the exact time, and this before when your parents were born, and before when their parents were born. No imagine that - and most amazing, it happens a million times a day!


Let's assume The Creation of the universe and the evolvement of it into it's current state is by Coincidence, Let's assume that the creation of Earth was merely by Coincidence as well, Let's also assume Earth's perfect equilibrium within it's environment in space is also by Coincidence, it's distance from the Sun is too, as far as we're concerned. The fact water is in it's most unlikely condition in the universe here on earth is by Coincidence, because you know that universally the most common  condition for water is "frozen", and all these Coincidences lead to the creation of life on earth which also makes the creation of life to be by Coincidence,every evolvement and every birth of every human being is of course also by Coincidence and so is every thing ever created, any existing metter reflect's Coincidence through it, in fact Im starting to wonder what is not by Coincidence acording to you, can we render a person deciding to undergo plastic surgery as a coincidence too?- No?! because there's that whole thing with decision, with "Choice", when you decide to do something and then do it, it's no longer rendered as "by coincidence", right?.....but wait, The creation of this person was by Coincidence meaning that whatever he does is by Coincidence too right?....How is it possible that in a never ending sequence of coincidences suddenly comes a moment when it's no longer by Coincidence?--- The Key to answering this question is "choice"....And was there choice before there were humans?!....

p.s
"God gave us choice."
oh one more thing, In this post When you see the term "Coincidence" you should just replace it with "God"  or "creator"....Believing in coincidence can  also be defined as a religion, it's just like believing in GOD, This way you just don't need to explore The Creator's essence, it's very convenient because you will be able to sleep at night.


lmao... that's ridicolous. the way the earth is, makes it the kind of planet on which creatures like human can live. on other planets, such creatures simply dont emerge. it's that simple. you are megalomaniac if you think this whole circumstances with perfect equilibrium, water, sun is created just so that fools like you and me can live here lmao. it was what it was, and creatures who were able to live under those conditions emerged on the planet. if the sun was way nearer or way farer, other creatures wouldve emerged or maybe also no creatures at all, whatever, doesnt matter.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin