Author Topic: Why would anyone really think God exists? ... or even believe in Religion?  (Read 1457 times)

I TO DA GEEZY

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yea, so it's all a Coincidence right?!....just like I said   ;)....

I rest my case and you can have your faith.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

mauzip

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yea, so it's all a Coincidence right?!

Yup.
 

Thirteen

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You need to have more faith in the case of creation because it's main point is, as said, unprovable...God himself. While evolution is mostly based on observable,provable facts.

Also, the massive occurence of convergism in nature is big proof of evolution.
Take birds,bats and insects. Each one of them can usually fly ( at least,that's the ancestral case). Though they can all fly, their wings are extremely different.
In insects, the wings consist of altered 'scales' from the back.
In birds, forelimbs with fused fingers and feathers attached to them build up the wing.
In bats, the hands have extremely elongated fingers with leathery skin stretched inbetween those fingers,the arms,the sides of the body, the legs and the tail.

Now all three of them can fly efficiently yet they have completely different designs. If all flying creatures would have been created by God...why not give them all the same equipment? That's illogical, but them evolving from different origins and thus being different ( a la cars and trains) is a good reason for them differing so much in structure while they do the same thing.



Look at this pic and check the difference between the bird and the bat, and the similairity of the bat to the human, indicating they're much more closely related to each other and have descended and thus,evolved from a common ancestor.

that's not good reasoning....there's thousands of diffrent cars, different bikes, different plates...i can go on and on....and these were created by man, and man was created in God's image
 

Sikotic™

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You need to have more faith in the case of creation because it's main point is, as said, unprovable...God himself. While evolution is mostly based on observable,provable facts.

Also, the massive occurence of convergism in nature is big proof of evolution.
Take birds,bats and insects. Each one of them can usually fly ( at least,that's the ancestral case). Though they can all fly, their wings are extremely different.
In insects, the wings consist of altered 'scales' from the back.
In birds, forelimbs with fused fingers and feathers attached to them build up the wing.
In bats, the hands have extremely elongated fingers with leathery skin stretched inbetween those fingers,the arms,the sides of the body, the legs and the tail.

Now all three of them can fly efficiently yet they have completely different designs. If all flying creatures would have been created by God...why not give them all the same equipment? That's illogical, but them evolving from different origins and thus being different ( a la cars and trains) is a good reason for them differing so much in structure while they do the same thing.



Look at this pic and check the difference between the bird and the bat, and the similairity of the bat to the human, indicating they're much more closely related to each other and have descended and thus,evolved from a common ancestor.

that's not good reasoning....there's thousands of diffrent cars, different bikes, different plates...i can go on and on....and these were created by man, and man was created in God's image

Exactamundo
 

Thirteen

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you people that don't believe in god.... you really believe that the hundreds of thousands of different species of insect, fish, bacteria, birds, reptiles, fish....all came from the same one celled organism?

i find that hard to believe, because as a human...and lets say that there were only humans on the earth...i know my kids, my kid's kids, my kid's kid's kids.....and their kids for hundreds of generations will be human.... they're not going to sprout wings, gills, claws, scales or any other thing that will classify them as a new species ever.
 

Suga Foot

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no, but your children may never get wisdom teeth
 

Sikotic™

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no, but your children may never get wisdom teeth

That has to do with heredity, not evolution. It's similar to whether you get a widow's peak, or whether or not your ear lobe is elongated.
 

Machiavelli

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How come the monkeys and Apes of this era have not evelved into humans?
 

7even

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there have been several organisms. nothing wrong with that. if god created us humans why would he wait so long to do that. and why would he create us in a way that makes us destroying ourselves in a heartbeat. if you see the earth from the beginning of existence till now as 24 hours, we just live for a couple of secondes. and we also die in a couple of seconds. how can that be his big creation.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2004, 05:11:04 PM by 7even the Harbinger »
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
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No, it's not a sin
 

7even

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How come the monkeys and Apes of this era have not evelved into humans?


that's plain stupid. humans arent even long enought here to watch another mammal going through such a big evolution, not to go further into the schemes of evolution.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Gotti......Xl

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there is no god

i know theres no god but there is a GOD  :D U always spell his name with capital LETTERS his bigger  just give him a chance give your self a chance when you need him i  will help u but always remenber always thank him ... God gave me a chance and iam gonna take it show me Bacon iam gonna take it .... Life is a test dogg but if God Test u it means the your ready for the test i will past if you pray dogg. Oh just do good they always rewards

 

7even

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there is no god

i know theres no god but there is a GOD  :D U always spell his name with capital LETTERS his bigger  just give him a chance give your self a chance when you need him i  will help u but always remenber always thank him ... God gave me a chance and iam gonna take it show me Bacon iam gonna take it .... Life is a test dogg but if God Test u it means the your ready for the test i will past if you pray dogg. Oh just do good they always rewards

talking about god as the instrument of repression created by the higher society to prevent revolution.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Sikotic™

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How come the monkeys and Apes of this era have not evelved into humans?


that's plain stupid. humans arent even long enought here to watch another mammal going through such a big evolution, not to go further into the schemes of evolution.

If we were not here long enough to witness a big evolution, then how do you know for sure? See, you BELIEVE it has happened in the past. I could make a thread similar to this one and bash evolutionists for believing in a big bang because they just want to make up a shitty and simple explanation for the origin of a world so beautifully designed and complex.

It can go both ways, therefore, there's no point in arguing. The presence of God in today's world, however, is something that can still be debated.
 

7even

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The presence of God in today's world, however, is something that can still be debated.

I dont see anything here to which I would refer the presence of god. the world is a mess. War between the religions, with each of them using god's name in vain. not to talk about the everyday things that are fucked up. In 50 years the world wont be very beautiful anyways, when all the rainforest are destroyed etc.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Sikotic™

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Believe me I fear the same. Out here in the San Fernando Valley/Southern California area, the sky isn't even blue anymore because of pollution. Only when it rains do we get to see the beautiful blue sky in it's glory.

Though I believe God created the world, more than ever I've been doubting whether he really is omnipresent like it says in the Bible.
 

Thirteen

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there have been several organisms. nothing wrong with that. if god created us humans why would he wait so long to do that. and why would he create us in a way that makes us destroying ourselves in a heartbeat. if you see the earth from the beginning of existence till now as 24 hours, we just live for a couple of secondes. and we also die in a couple of seconds. how can that be his big creation.

cars don't even last 20 years in constant use and thats one of our big creations
 

Thirteen

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The presence of God in today's world, however, is something that can still be debated.

I dont see anything here to which I would refer the presence of god. the world is a mess. War between the religions, with each of them using god's name in vain. not to talk about the everyday things that are fucked up. In 50 years the world wont be very beautiful anyways, when all the rainforest are destroyed etc.

it says in the bible that he gave us a choice....God's not wrecking the world....Bush is
 

mauzip

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The presence of God in today's world, however, is something that can still be debated.

I dont see anything here to which I would refer the presence of god. the world is a mess. War between the religions, with each of them using god's name in vain. not to talk about the everyday things that are fucked up. In 50 years the world wont be very beautiful anyways, when all the rainforest are destroyed etc.

it says in the bible that he gave us a choice....God's not wrecking the world....Bush is

In your believes, didn't God create Bush??
 

7even

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there have been several organisms. nothing wrong with that. if god created us humans why would he wait so long to do that. and why would he create us in a way that makes us destroying ourselves in a heartbeat. if you see the earth from the beginning of existence till now as 24 hours, we just live for a couple of secondes. and we also die in a couple of seconds. how can that be his big creation.

cars don't even last 20 years in constant use and thats one of our big creations

with we die I meant that he human race will probably die out in a few thousand years if not earlier. the equivalent to this would be that in like 5 minutes after the first car was created noone ever drives a car ever again. llol
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Don Seer

you know the problem with this is that you all look stupid, and you'll never agree.
once you understand that everyone thinks they're right you'll be fine.

you HAVE to respect the fact that someone either believes or doesn't you won't change their mind!



here is why i 'dont believe'

as a child i was forced to go to sunday school.. (church of england btw.. ) even at a young age i would ask the awkward questions.. but i was also very very aware of the weird techniques they were using on us.

one i remember is being given a lil cup with salt water in and being told it was christs tears.. the other kids blindly did what they were told, and accepted it as being what she said it was.. whereas i saw her put the salt in the water and hand it out.

now as a 4 year old kid.. what you think that did to my opinion of the faith?


smoke and mirrors..


for example. if you know anything about the truth and history of the bible you'd understand that its STORIES. they even have proof that earlier versions of the stories exist, and even worse that they were poached from other religions.

later on christianity's tactic was to absorb pagan traditions to make the transfer easy for people..

it was a bending of the faith to suit its masters needs.


islam and chistianity were both INVENTIONS... both have been created in our history.. we even know when and who.

how can something man-made be the truth?

what about the religions that failed?  do you know offshoots of christianity were oppressed as heresy by the catholics? you should look up the cathars



evolution is FACT, its been proved thanks to micro evolution.

to the person that said about why wouldn't his decendants evolve..the answer is they would.

BUT

that would only happen if you put them on different continents for 100,000s of years without contact and cross-breeding...

depending upon the environment they're placed in the more suited ones would survive, or become more masterful in that environment.



answer me this why in every corner ofthe world where man kind has existed did they all invent and follow DIFFERENT religions.. ?

why did they practice things that others through were vile?

because they were things made up by mankind to try and do one of hte following 2 things..

1) to control people
2) to try and control and explain the world around themselves.

an example of 2 is like how in some religions sacrifices "to the gods" were made when crops were bad.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 04:32:28 AM by Overseer »
 

Z the laidback Virus

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The pro-religion arguments here are getting increasingly stupid and ignorant.

How come the monkeys and Apes of this era have not evelved into humans?

Now that's an easy one. It's a simple biological and also economical principle that two organisms or businesses can't do the same thing at the same time at the same place due to competition. Either one will go extinct (or bancrupt) or one will only be able to have a marginal existence.
Because the human niche (that is, an ecological space and no we are not 'above' that) is allready occupied by us and because that is the case no ape or whatever other creature would evolve into a humanoid form because they would start out at a disadvantage in being still evolving towards that state while we are allready at our state of development. What happens is, is that no such creature would be able to compete while we are still there and thus, it would go extinct. Also, organisms only evolve to fill a different niche when this niche is open.

My example of flyers might not have been the most convincing but check out burrowing mammals. We have these fossorial (highly specialised in subterraneous borrowing) mammal groups.

The marsupial mole, a marsupial.
http://namamisozui.hp.infoseek.co.jp/y2/y2-kami/17.jpg

Golden moles, afrotheres ( along with aardvarks,tenrecs,seacows,dassies and elephants)
http://bali.co.kr/zoo/image5/%B5%CE%B4%F5%C1%E305goldenMole.jpg

Typical moles, insectivores (like hedgehogs and shrews and for those who it says anything,solenodons)
http://www.hdra.org.uk/assets/mole.jpg

mole rats and blind mice, rodents.
http://www.nbi.ac.za/haroldporter/haroldporterimages/capemolerat2.jpg

http://www.terrambiente.org/fauna/Mammiferi/rodentia/images/spalax.jpg

Anyone will notice these animals are VERY much alike,yet they are completely unrelated. Even the blind mice and mole rats are not closely related within rodents.
The reason they are so different is because each one of them has fully devoted itself to the same sort of lifestyle wich made their much different ancestors develop the same specialisations independent from each other. Each of them aquired burrowing claws, a cilindric body and lost their external ears and degenerated their eyes,in many cases becoming blind and having their eyes covered in skin. The reason they could evolve into occupying the same niche is that they were all isolated from each other in time and place. Since humans are eveywhere, there is no place any creature could evolve into occupying the same niche as we do.

Took a lot of space and letters to explain but the principle is easy.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 04:53:28 AM by Z the laidback Virus »
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Z the laidback Virus

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you know the problem with this is that you all look stupid, and you'll never agree.
once you understand that everyone thinks they're right you'll be fine.

you HAVE to respect the fact that someone either believes or doesn't you won't change their mind!



here is why i 'dont believe'

as a child i was forced to go to sunday school.. (church of england btw.. ) even at a young age i would ask the awkward questions.. but i was also very very aware of the weird techniques they were using on us.

one i remember is being given a lil cup with salt water in and being told it was christs tears.. the other kids blindly did what they were told, and accepted it as being what she said it was.. whereas i saw her put the salt in the water and hand it out.

now as a 4 year old kid.. what you think that did to my opinion of the faith?


smoke and mirrors..


for example. if you know anything about the truth and history of the bible you'd understand that its STORIES. they even have proof that earlier versions of the stories exist, and even worse that they were poached from other religions.

later on christianity's tactic was to absorb pagan traditions to make the transfer easy for people..

it was a bending of the faith to suit its masters needs.


islam and chistianity were both INVENTIONS... both have been created in our history.. we even know when and who.

how can something man-made be the truth?

what about the religions that failed?  do you know offshoots of christianity were oppressed as heresy by the catholics? you should look up the cathars



evolution is FACT, its been proved thanks to micro evolution.

to the person that said about why wouldn't his decendants evolve..the answer is they would.

BUT

that would only happen if you put them on different continents for 100,000s of years without contact and cross-breeding...

depending upon the environment they're placed in the more suited ones would survive, or become more masterful in that environment.



answer me this why in every corner ofthe world where man kind has existed did they all invent and follow DIFFERENT religions.. ?

why did they practice things that others through were vile?

because they were things made up by mankind to try and do one of hte following 2 things..

1) to control people
2) to try and control and explain the world around themselves.

an example of 2 is like how in some religions sacrifices "to the gods" were made when crops were bad.



Big props to the Overseer
Z knows about ALL your inner conflicts..
 

7even

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you know the problem with this is that you all look stupid, and you'll never agree.
once you understand that everyone thinks they're right you'll be fine.

you HAVE to respect the fact that someone either believes or doesn't you won't change their mind!

I dont intend to make everyone believe like I do, I just like to debate about issues like this one, I dont see anything wrong with that. I respect it when ppl like Infinite came to a better life through religion, but things like this just prove my thoughts about religion - and dont make the assumption of God existing / Religion being the real deal accurate in any way.


the stuff Z said about the niches is damn right. I recall learning something like this at school. not with humans, but with birds, and of course it's also the case with humans. we are not more than animals. special animals of course, cause evolution blessed/screwed (however you see it) us, but still mammals, like many other animals.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2004, 05:20:18 AM by 7even the Harbinger »
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

Thirteen

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The presence of God in today's world, however, is something that can still be debated.

I dont see anything here to which I would refer the presence of god. the world is a mess. War between the religions, with each of them using god's name in vain. not to talk about the everyday things that are fucked up. In 50 years the world wont be very beautiful anyways, when all the rainforest are destroyed etc.

it says in the bible that he gave us a choice....God's not wrecking the world....Bush is

In your believes, didn't God create Bush??

no bush is a cyborg remember?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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People, your mistake is that you are not discusing GOD (The Creator....), you are discusing Religion.... Religion is also a subjective view, you need to go deeper, think, try picturing the begining, think how can something emerge out of nothing, how can we even talk about science and physics the way we know them today, It's a whole diffrend liege, All of the basic rules we think the universe work's upon were defied in it's own begining, or haven't even existed back then, you guys can't close yourselves to The Paradox Of The Begining....I never realised this untill a certain age, ever since I was enlightened(through a kind of guiding) I haven't been the same.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?