Where's the democracy in Afganistan and Iraq?

[infinite59]

Who is honestly brainwashed enough to think America's policy in the Middle East is to promote democracy?

If you think America is about promoting democracy in the world, then tell me right now when their will be democracy in Iraq and Afganistan.  And I'm not talking about the kind of democracy they are trying to create in Afganistan where only 16% of the people are even registered to vote.  Wait a second... we don't even have democracy in America.  Less than half of American's actually vote, and Gore had more votes anyway.

First, America would have to establish a real democracy at home before we can force people to do it anywhere else.

And I want someone to tell me right now, a date, of when Iraq and Afganistan will have democracy.  Say it right now.  1 year? 5 years? 10 years?  When.  Put it right here.

The US policy was never about democracy, and any sensible person knows this.  Al-Sadr is the most popular figure in Iraq.  If it was really about democracy, a government that represents the will of the people, Al-Sadr would be the president of Iraq, or atleast the mayor of his city, instead he's the most wanted man in Iraq. 

America's foriegn policy has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with power, money, polotics, control, imperialism, globalization, oil, and Isreal.

[mauzip]

Don't talk shit dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like you support Al-Sadr.

[infinite59]

Don't talk shit dude, you have no idea what you're talking about. You sound like you support Al-Sadr.

Maybe your the one who doesn't know what your talking about.  Do you even know who Al-Sadr is?  Or what he stands for?  Or do you just believe anything that an anchor man with a nice suit and a good haircutt says on CNN?  The prophet Muhammad (salla alayhi wa salaam) said that the rescue for the ignorant is the question.  Next time, before you speak without your inner apartments, go ahead and ask a question, if you don't know anything about the person you are speaking about.

Al Sadr's family stood up to Sadaam Hussien.  They were subsequently tortured by Hussien.  He has had family members killed and totured by Sadaam Hussien.  When America overthrew Hussien and began it's current occupation of Iraq, if your one who believes everything you see on TV, you would have thought Al-Sadr would have been celebrating.  That is hardly the case.  He knew better than that.  Al Sadr was quoted as saying, "The little serpent is out (Hussien), and the big serpent is in (America)."

That statement says it all.  The little serpent is out, and the big serpent is in.  Hussien severly oppressed Al-Sadr and Iraqi Shiites, but America had been preventing Iraq from getting basic resources for living, through the use of punishing sanctions, that punished Iraqi people severly for ten years.  Upon invading and occupying Iraq, America has been oppressing, torturing and murdering Iraqi's at a new, unprecedented level (more than Hussien ever did).  So the struggle continues for Sadr.  He wants freedom for his people.  He is fighting for Iraqi's to have control of their land, of their resources, and their freedom.  He is fighting against oppression and occupation from a foriegn country that has killed 10's of thousands of his people and stole billions in Iraqi resources.

42:41 Noble Qu'ran:  "Those who fight when oppressed incur no anger, but Allah shall surely perish the oppressor."[/i]
   

[mauzip]

Okay, so Al-Sadr is a great man because he was against Saddam. Makes sense.

[infinite59]

Okay, so Al-Sadr is a great man because he was against Saddam. Makes sense.

I was pointing out that Al-Sadr's whole life and family history has been submerged in struggle. 

Hussien started out as a puppet of the United States government.  The United States gave him weapons to wage war on Shiites Muslims in Iran and Shiites within his own country.  Hussien ran a secular government and he suppressed Iraqi Shiites. 

Once again, this man's whole life and family history has been a struggle.  This man dresses in the same clothes that he will wear in the grave, because he knows he will be there soon.  He is not doing this for money, power, or wealth.  He is sacrificing his life to fight against oppression.  Everyone knows he will be dead very soon.

[mauzip]

This is a cruel man who doesn't want anything BUT power.

[infinite59]

This is a cruel man who doesn't want anything BUT power.

Power?  You can not honestly be this brainwashed.  This man will be dead very soon.  He knows it, everyone knows it.  Where is the power in death?  This man has not been hiding from death.  When he gives his khutbah's at friday prayers in Sadr-city he is already dressed and prepared for the grave.  His father gave his life and was killed by Hussien.  This is how his whole family history has been.  They have never enjoyed any power, and he will not either.  He will be dead soon.  And he is pleased with that.  Because he and his family have forsaken the life of this world for the life of the hereafter.  They believe that their only duty is to Allah.

I want you to come back on this thread after he is killed and tell me that he did it for power.

[ZILLA THA GOODFELLA]

This is a cruel man who doesn't want anything BUT power.

hmmm, sounds familiar....

[mauzip]

I see it like this:

Bush does it for the oil (money), Al-Sadr does it for the power.

[infinite59]

I see it like this:

Bush does it for the oil (money), Al-Sadr does it for the power.

Please explain to me how a dead man has power?  Please explain to me how a man who is going to be dead very soon, is in search of power?  Please explain to me how the father of Al-Sadr, in a similar instance, ever held any power in being killed?  Please explain how the followers of Al-Sadr (The Mehdi army) have achieved any power or how they have desired power?  Most of these people are dead, or soon to be dead.  So please explain this "power" thing to me.

[mauzip]

Who says he's a dead man soon?

If he comes out of this conflict alive, he'll be more than happy to oppress the Iraqi people.

[infinite59]

Who says he's a dead man soon?

If he comes out of this conflict alive, he'll be more than happy to oppress the Iraqi people.

So your telling me, for the record, that you honestly think that he will survive all this and be in control of Iraq?  You really think this?  You really think that he'll survive all this and become the new leader of Iraq?  Get real!

[mauzip]

You need to read a little bit less selective. I said this man wants to become that, yes.

[infinite59]

You need to read a little bit less selective. I said this man wants to become that, yes.

No.  You didn't say that.  You said, "Who said he's a dead man?".  Which obviously implies that you don't think that he is going to die soon.  He has stated many times that he knows he will die soon, his people all are prepared to die soon, and have been dying at a fast rate for a while now.

[mauzip]

You need to read a little bit less selective. I said this man wants to become that, yes.

No.  You didn't say that.  You said, "Who said he's a dead man?".  Which obviously implies that you don't think that he is going to die soon. 

Wrong.