Do Americans who are voting Kerry vote for him for any reason besides...

[*Jamal*]

I'm no expert when it comes to this, but I THINK things have changed just a tiny bit since "ancient Greece".

[Shallow]

I'm no expert when it comes to this, but I THINK things have changed just a tiny bit since "ancient Greece".

Yes but that is where "democarcy" came from, and that is where it was best used. Ancient Greece is also the corner stone for the entire western culture. That being said, you are either an idiot, a moron who likes starting shit for no reason, or a guy that didn't understand my post. All I said was that when democracy was formed it was common for every citizen to be fully aware of what was happening with the potical system. You're response to this implies that people should not be aware of what's going on. Do you really believe that?

[*Jamal*]

No, actually you said "only be able to vote by passing a competency test to show that they are aware of what they are voting for. This way, only the interested and intelligent will vote". That's different from just saying that only the intelligent were able to vote back then. And by the way, in ancient Greece, ALL FREE MALES were allowed to vote, not just the "intelligent" ones as you stated.

[*Jamal*]

I've been gone for a while, but are you and 7even the Hairbinger trying to be WCC's own Dumb&Dumber or something?

[*Jamal*]

By the way, you stated "only the interested and intelligent will vote, and interest and intelligence will be encouranged as a whole". Do you know that this was part of the reason that the electoral college was used in the first place? Obviously you didn't, but someone who PROBABLY knows better than you said this:

"It was ... desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the [office of the Presidency] ... A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations"
---- Alexander Hamilton

Personally, I think Mr. Hamilton knows a little more about this stuff than some retard named Shallow.

[*Jamal*]

7even *check*
Shallow *check*

 

[Shallow]

You have serious issues you know that?

All I said was what I thought the system should be like. I feel it would be more fair to the masses if the masses got to decide what their fate was. Going to war would be up to the people, not one man. This is just my opinion. I never meant to imply it has to be this way in order for us to strive. Alexander Hamilton has another opinion. But, if you think that the whole idea of this style of democracy was for anything other than keeping rich white men on top of the food chain, then you are a fool.

Oh and I said citizens in ancient Greece. I didn't say intellectuals. Citizens would imply all those who could vote, and yes that was just Greek males. I know that, and I never said all intelligent intelligent people. Try learning how to properly derive information through reading before you *check* me.

[M Dogg™]

By the way, you stated "only the interested and intelligent will vote, and interest and intelligence will be encouranged as a whole". Do you know that this was part of the reason that the electoral college was used in the first place? Obviously you didn't, but someone who PROBABLY knows better than you said this:

"It was ... desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the [office of the Presidency] ... A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations"
---- Alexander Hamilton

Personally, I think Mr. Hamilton knows a little more about this stuff than some retard named Shallow.

you have to remember though how outdated that way of thinking is. The founders of this country did not trust the early Americans for a very good reason, no one at that time would see the people runnig for president, nor would they hear them, know them, have any ideas what was going on in the capital. That's why the United States is more of a republic than a democracy. Democracy, everyone votes on everything. Every law that's passed, every bill, everything. Almost like California's propositions, we vote on everything, tax increases, tax cuts, school spending, school cutting, mary jane for medical use, we vote on everything. But the United States does not work like that, we vote in our representives to vote for us in the capital. Our reps vote on laws, taxes, federal things, so basically we are not a true democracy but a republic. That's all good, but I think, that is every single person in our offices are voted by popular vote, I think it is time to vote for our president by popular vote. We should vote for our president as a whole nation, not as divided states. Also, the days of Hamilton are over, we are more informed, we see the people running for presidents in our daily lives. We can make an educated vote on our own, not through no electorial college. It's time to change our system, because our system failed us in 2000 when the man that won the vote lost the election, and we are seeing how it is failing now. We are at a time when only 9 states matter because their populations are split, well other states are ignored because they swing a certain way. Well news flash, in California, there are Republicans too, don't believe me, look at our governor, or the fact that Grey Davis was the only Democrat governor since 1982, and look at what happened to him. Also, in Texas, there are Democrats, don't believe me, why do they usually vote in Democrat governors. Each state has proven to not always vote for a certain party, so why have this system when you ignore 36 million people, just to pay attention to a state with like 9 million. That not demoracy, or even a republic, it's straight up elitism.

[*Jamal*]

Oh and I said citizens in ancient Greece. I didn't say intellectuals. Citizens would imply all those who could vote, and yes that was just Greek males. I know that, and I never said all intelligent intelligent people. Try learning how to properly derive information through reading before you *check* me.

You said "In ancient Greece EVERY citizen was completely aware of what was going on politically."

Do you have any proof of that? Are you saying that EVERY free adult male was completely aware of all the issues? Can you also compare the population of "ancient Greece" to ours?

You're right about one thing... I shouldn't have checked you.... *check mate*

[*Jamal*]

you have to remember though how outdated that way of thinking is. The founders of this country did not trust the early Americans for a very good reason, no one at that time would see the people runnig for president, nor would they hear them, know them, have any ideas what was going on in the capital. That's why the United States is more of a republic than a democracy. Democracy, everyone votes on everything. Every law that's passed, every bill, everything. Almost like California's propositions, we vote on everything, tax increases, tax cuts, school spending, school cutting, mary jane for medical use, we vote on everything. But the United States does not work like that, we vote in our representives to vote for us in the capital. Our reps vote on laws, taxes, federal things, so basically we are not a true democracy but a republic. That's all good, but I think, that is every single person in our offices are voted by popular vote, I think it is time to vote for our president by popular vote. We should vote for our president as a whole nation, not as divided states. Also, the days of Hamilton are over, we are more informed, we see the people running for presidents in our daily lives. We can make an educated vote on our own, not through no electorial college. It's time to change our system, because our system failed us in 2000 when the man that won the vote lost the election, and we are seeing how it is failing now. We are at a time when only 9 states matter because their populations are split, well other states are ignored because they swing a certain way. Well news flash, in California, there are Republicans too, don't believe me, look at our governor, or the fact that Grey Davis was the only Democrat governor since 1982, and look at what happened to him. Also, in Texas, there are Democrats, don't believe me, why do they usually vote in Democrat governors. Each state has proven to not always vote for a certain party, so why have this system when you ignore 36 million people, just to pay attention to a state with like 9 million. That not demoracy, or even a republic, it's straight up elitism.

Did you and Shallow not attend school here or what? I started learning about this in elementary, and continued to throughout middle and high school. First of all, how the fuck can you say this is not a "democracy"? It's called REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY.

Then you go on to say that "we are more informed", while Shallow says that we're not as informed as they were in the past. How can you two be arguing the same thing, but give me two opposite reasons? LOLLLL you idiots are hillarious.

If each state has not always proven to vote for a certain party, then the electoral college shouldn't have too much of an effect on the people's choice, since each party has an "equal opportunity" in each state. You said it, not me.

Furthermore, what you just explained as "voting as states" is an aspect of federalism. I'm assuming you didn't learn anything about this either.

Don't they have a "U.S. History/Government for Dummies" book you guys could read? Now that I think about it, even that would be on a reading level far above the one you can understand.

[7even]

Jamal, Jamal, Jamal.. all he can do is bringing the same stupid quote up over and over again.

Yet the quote isnt considering the topic as such, it just tries to show how I contradict myself.

And yet again, I dont contradict myself cause I dont talk about all states.
-and you ask me if I can read.

You said "The small states arent considered either way cause they always vote for republicans".
Now let's break this down.

they = the small states
always vote for republicans

Where does it say that you're referring to "some, but not all small states". Let me guess: You wrote it, but it's in another thread. LOL

where does it say I was referring to literally all states? you cant find that either.

my point was that each system leaves a few countries more out than others.. which made your argument invalid.

Are you gonna deny this later also? LOL you fuckin idiot.

And by the way, when you say "the small states", in the literal sense, that means you're referring to all small states.

For example, if I were to say "Germans are stupid", I'd be referring to all Germans; however, if I were to say "Germans like 7even are stupid", then I'd be classifying a specific group.

Now shut up and learn your place. I've proven you wrong about 12 times in 2 threads. That's a record.

lol please.  I wrote countries instead of states.. dont know how that happened, but I definitely know that's not relevant.

now if, in theory, you really proved  that I contradicted myself (while everybody who read through this including you knows that I actually never really did) I still "won" the discussion, as I proved your original point wrong.
as you know you cant argue against my points, you rely on making fun of things like false spelling (not in my case though.. for obvious reasons) and other secondary issues. that's not proving wrong. that's just proving that Im not perfect... when you arent either.

[white Boy]

damn.. dont u get tired about arguing the same shit over and over and over and over and over on a fuck msg board...

[*Jamal*]

Won the discussion? LOL how in the fuck? That's like saying Bush won the 1st debate. You don't win arguments by contradicting yourself, making dumb remarks, and later claiming that "someone moved my post".... LOLLLL *NEXT*

[*Jamal*]

damn.. dont u get tired about arguing the same shit over and over and over and over and over on a fuck msg board...

tired of* arguing about*.... 

By the way, nobody forces you to read any of it. Secondly, why waste your time typing up that stupid comment if it has nothing to do with this thread? Do you feel left out and want somebody to argue with you?

[7even]

Won the discussion? LOL how in the fuck? That's like saying Bush won the 1st debate. You don't win arguments by contradicting yourself, making dumb remarks, and later claiming that "someone moved my post".... LOLLLL *NEXT*

as you would say... whatever boosts your self-esteem. it's ok.