Author Topic: does social class exist in America?  (Read 601 times)

ZILLA THA GOODFELLA

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does social class exist in America?
« on: November 08, 2004, 07:22:38 PM »
for the most part....it doesn't, Like if U walk in a mcdonalds or something, ure not gonna know who's got more money, whos in higher class, who's in the working class etc.

I guess it only exists in the people who rate social class system on an individual's income....

lower class, middle class and upper class is a popular conception that includes 2 theories....the Relational model which suggests classes are real, bounded strata that exist in conflicting relations with one another. And then there's the Distribution model, this portrays American society as essentially classless, one in which class divisions are blurred by virtue of their continuous and uniterrupted nature.

so which one of these models is right?

shit's confusing, please come discuss this y'all, I need to get some insight from others for a class at college.




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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2004, 07:41:05 PM »
I think it's kind of in between being no one caring about class and a more segregational class style. I mean, I'm middle class and I've got no problem talking to anyone rich or poor, but obviously there would be a lot of things we wouldn't have in common.

Most hip-hop is now keyboard driven, because the majority of hip-hop workstations have loops and patches that enable somebody with marginal skills to put tracks together,...

Unfortunately, most hip-hop artists gravitated towards the path of least resistance by relying on these pre-set patches. As a result, electric guitar and real musicians became devalued, and a lot of hip-hop now sounds the same.

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pappy

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2004, 08:36:45 PM »
I think it's kind of in between being no one caring about class and a more segregational class style. I mean, I'm middle class and I've got no problem talking to anyone rich or poor, but obviously there would be a lot of things we wouldn't have in common.

I dont kno, from my personal experience.  My family is upper lower class/lower middle class... i have no problem talking to anyone, poor or rich.  its the rich that look down on you.  This is strictly from my personal experience.  You see how racist whites look down on black.  Well thats how even a upper middle class white person looks at a person like me.  They wont even give a person like me a chance.
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2004, 01:50:08 AM »
^ I know exactly how U feel....

I can get along wit a rich cat, I like talkin 2 em to learn their side of shit....but juss as much as they look down on us, alot of my people hate on them too....won't associate wit em....too hood for their own good.

but why is it in America, U can't spot a rich or poor person....well not at most times anyway, like I kno poor ass muthafucaz drivin 2004 model cars....but they ain't got shit to their name. Why is it in a place like Cuba or some place like that, you'll know right off the bat who's rich and isn't....discuss this u filths.....i got an essay 2 do lol

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Don Seer

Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2004, 01:53:55 AM »
^ you're talking about material wealth as the measure of class..

but thats not the only indicator...


you can be upper class.. and be poor as shit ;)
 

ecrazy

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2004, 02:04:03 AM »
^ I know exactly how U feel....

I can get along wit a rich cat, I like talkin 2 em to learn their side of shit....but juss as much as they look down on us, alot of my people hate on them too....won't associate wit em....too hood for their own good.

but why is it in America, U can't spot a rich or poor person....well not at most times anyway, like I kno poor ass muthafucaz drivin 2004 model cars....but they ain't got shit to their name. Why is it in a place like Cuba or some place like that, you'll know right off the bat who's rich and isn't....discuss this u filths.....i got an essay 2 do lol
I thought Cuba Was communist & everyone was the same ???
isnt that how communist works
im going away from the topic, im sorry
:(
 

*Jamal*

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2004, 03:07:32 AM »
I wrote a report on a similar issue back in high school. I don't have the report, but I remember some of the things I discussed.

-----

First of all, you could easily side with each of the viewpoints, but I believe that a person will recognize class and the fact that it exists, only when that person finds it convenient to defend his or her interest.

However, there exists one "general American culture view" of class, and that is that:
a) most people are middle class workers, somewhat successful, and are living the "American Dream"
b) there is a handful of "successful" people who have come up with a bright idea/innovation/or have made great business deals (the rich)
c) there is a small group of unsuccessful people(the poor), when compared to the "middle class"

The general notion is that the unsuccessful people are uneducated, or are too lazy to work, and expect the government to take care of them (aka our tax money), so they're considered to be holding back the rest of us in a way.

So, the general view is that America is classless, and that a vast majority of people fall in the category of the working people (middle class).

I disagree with that. Just like some people would have you believe that we have a "colorblind" society, I think it isn't true that we live in a "classless" society.
Let's face it, racism does exist. We must also realize that in some cases, racism can prevent a person from succeeding. Some might agree or disagree with that, but that's just my view; there are plenty of people who will agree though. As I mentioned above, the general view is that "poor" people are lazy and want a free ride.  Just like some people are blind to the fact that racism prevents a person from succeeding, some are also blind to the fact that classism can prevent a person from succeeding.

A perfect example of the above is education. We all know that in order to have a "successful" job, these days, a good education is basically essential. Studies show that standardized test scores in economically poor neighborhoods are lower than they are in "better/richer" neighborhoods. There could be several explanations for this, but when you think about it, schools only receive a certain amount of federal aid, the rest comes from local taxes. So, if you live in a poor neighborhood, your property is worth less, so you pay less taxes, hence there is less money going to the schools in the poor neighborhoods. On top of that, drugs and violence are a greater issue in these poor neighborhood schools than at richer ones. This lack of education earns them a mediocre job, which wouldn't really enable them to move out of the poor neighborhood, and that's probably where their children will end up growing up. So, unless a child is smart, strong, and motivated enough to realize how important it is that he/she does well, and works really hard, he/she is bound to end up like his/her parents. I know there are obviously exceptions to this scenario, but in general, this is what's going on in our society.

Anyways, there's more, but I kinda have some shit to do for my own classes LOL, but I'm sure this will help you get started and will give you somethin' to work with.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2004, 04:41:26 AM by *Jamal* »
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2004, 04:10:11 AM »
theres 3 initial classes and then those are broken up:

Upper class represented by U
Middle Class represented by M
and Lower represented by L


Upper class has 2 divisions:

U-U upper upper class < Fortune 500- Owner
L-U Lower Upper Class < Business Execs- Supervisor

Middle Class has 3

U-M Upper Middle Class < Advantaged- Management
M-M Middle Middle Class < most citizens- Middle Management
L-M Lower Middle Class < Working Poor- Employee

Lower Class has 3

U-L Upper Lower class < Poor
M-L Middle Lower Class < Impoverished
L-L Lowesst class < lLowest of the Low



That is the Chart I learned last year in Sociology hope that helps

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Don Seer

Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2004, 05:18:29 AM »
you're not talking about class in the sense of a society like the one I live in.

you're talking about rich people vs poor people.. thats a division of wealth, not class.

rich people can still be lower class...


over here.. a person IS upper class because they are born into it (i.e. blue blooded) but they can be stupid, uneducated and poor.

 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2004, 05:24:29 AM »
you're not talking about class in the sense of a society like the one I live in.

you're talking about rich people vs poor people.. thats a division of wealth, not class.

rich people can still be lower class...

over here.. a person IS upper class because they are born into it (i.e. blue blooded) but they can be stupid, uneducated and poor.

I know what you mean, but class can also be used to refer to where a person stands on a "wealth bracket".

By the way, you pointed out something interesting. Back when Bush (Sr.) was campaigning (1988 I believe), he said "division of classes is a European thing, and America shall be classless"... or something very similar to that...

Anyways, he later complained that the rich was being taxed too much LOLLLL

 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2004, 06:14:56 AM »
the way i see the class boundaries in britiain is mainly to do with how people speak and conduct themselves also the level of education they recieved, people seem to becoming less concerned out about other peoples material wealth to some extent

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

7even

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2004, 09:13:12 AM »
it exists everywhere.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2004, 10:56:57 AM »
There is allways and everywhere a class difference and it's basis can be anything.

Money can be it's basis,like what was pointed out earlier.

But in social groups where money isn't or doesn't have to be the defining factor, on schools for example, the basis for class can be quite different. I don't know about American high schools, but on mine in the Netherlands, the level of education and corresponding ability to learn where the defining element in class. Our school gave several levels of education (of increasing challenge and difficulty) and there really was a social class because of it.

All subdirections of VMBO felt more alike with each other then with the others (and constituted 'lower class') and the same was true for the directions of HAVO and VWO (these two being the  'upper class'), while in each direction, the various subdivisions also felt more akin to each other then to the others.

So, class can be based on very different things but when you deal with a large group, it'll allways exist.
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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2004, 10:17:03 PM »
It all depends on each person's view, the classes can exist if you want them to.
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2004, 06:59:42 AM »
I doesn't that bad. I Myself are lower middle class. my parents are about middle middle class. If u saw me in McDonalds u wouldn't think anything because I dress nice. But as soon as u seen me go home to the trailor park the kids that live in huge houses look down on you.
I think its rediculous. In a way I think it is better to have to work for you're own shit. It makes you appreciate what you have.I see it all the time.Daddy buys his son a brand new car. Son ruins it in a year and expects another one. I will get the last laugh when I get out of school with a masters in architecture and get my license.It'll be even more soothing because I put myself through school by working a 8.50 an hour best buy job.
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2004, 10:42:54 PM »
good shit, y'all came thru wit this......especially jamal. *hits props button*

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2004, 10:58:34 PM »
I'm right in the middle, so I don't feel any social class effects. You don't see too many impoverished people talking to big CEO's though.
 

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2004, 11:08:30 PM »
my view on this is, ofcourse there's a social class, whoever says there isn't is an idiot and hasn't been in a real society....but most times in the majority of neighbourhoods there is no class to the naked eye, muthafucaz sittin on 24s can be broke as fuc and no one would guess it....I said majority because there still is some neighbourhoods that social class is easy to spot, like for example, U would quickly spot an Oakland lower class type of dood in a place like Bel Air or somethin and vice versa....unless that person disguises himself. I dunno....there's alot of different angles to this issue.
















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*Jamal*

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2004, 03:12:37 AM »
but most times in the majority of neighbourhoods there is no class to the naked eye, muthafucaz sittin on 24s can be broke as fuc and no one would guess it....

The beauty of credit...
 

Acgrundy

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Re: does social class exist in America?
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2004, 03:31:03 AM »
^ you're talking about material wealth as the measure of class..

but thats not the only indicator...


you can be upper class.. and be poor as shit ;)

wtf are you talking about?  the only distinguishing factor on class is your wealth.  and of course social class exists in america, and the gap between the wealthy and poor is just getting bigger and bigger, with less and less middle class.

class has nothing to do with anything but wealth.  You cannot be upper class and be poor as shit.  if you are poor as shit then you are lower class, hence the name, "lower class"

why would someone be considered upper class if they were poor as shit?  wtf would make them "upper"?